Question for 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

This is you repeating an proven lie.

I've provided an eyewitness to the plane crash elsewhere. He SAW the plane plow into the ground and SAW debris go flying.

I provided an eyewitness- an arborist - that spent days picking plane parts and body parts out of the trees.

You are a proven liar.

I can provide links and quotes to anyone that asks.

Good, cause I'm asking. Prove that UA93 crashed there in PA. And while you're at it, prove that Miller was lying the first time he spoke to the cameras, and telling the truth when he changed his story.

An arborist, hired by the government to pick human remains out of trees where nobody else was allowed

Can you produce the video or cite quotes and sources for this claim I can find no evidence of.

Millers is on video saying the fist statements misquoted from him are to a newspaper reporter anout the wreckage looking dumb into the crater. The only other quotes I find from Miller cited by the truth movement are misquotes from interviews after the flight 93 recovery.

Sad you cannot back your claims, and you use Miller's statements out of context to spin a false narrative.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

This is you repeating an proven lie.

I've provided an eyewitness to the plane crash elsewhere. He SAW the plane plow into the ground and SAW debris go flying.

I provided an eyewitness- an arborist - that spent days picking plane parts and body parts out of the trees.

You are a proven liar.

I can provide links and quotes to anyone that asks.

Good, cause I'm asking. Prove that UA93 crashed there in PA. And while you're at it, prove that Miller was lying the first time he spoke to the cameras, and telling the truth when he changed his story.

An arborist, hired by the government to pick human remains out of trees where nobody else was allowed

In short, actual cite and quote what miller said. If you cannot produce an actual quote and cite a reference, you have no evidence.

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bobw927

No evidence of a plane at shanksvill, a lie.

So believe you as a complete stranger?

Or believe the civilians that attest to flight 77 flying overhead to its crash site and the explosion. The 1400 individuals that attest to recovering human remains, wreckage, the trees burt by jet fuel, remains, wreckage, and personal effects in a large debris field and in tree tops. The DNA testing that confirmed the crew and passengers ended up at shanksville, and the families that received the remains for burial. An event backed by radar data and flight controllers?

There was no wrecked airliner in that field or the woods next to it, and everybody there agreed.

This is you repeating an proven lie.

I've provided an eyewitness to the plane crash elsewhere. He SAW the plane plow into the ground and SAW debris go flying.

I provided an eyewitness- an arborist - that spent days picking plane parts and body parts out of the trees.

You are a proven liar.

I can provide links and quotes to anyone that asks.

Good, cause I'm asking. Prove that UA93 crashed there in PA. And while you're at it, prove that Miller was lying the first time he spoke to the cameras, and telling the truth when he changed his story.

An arborist, hired by the government to pick human remains out of trees where nobody else was allowed

You're asking? They're quotes of YOU.

And you're still avoiding the eyewitness. He wasn't hired by anyone. He SAW the plane and flying debris.

The arborist backs his testimony.

It's proven.

Miller isn't lying. He told the truth. There wasn't a plane nor bodies. There were small plane parts and small body parts. He says this too in his original video.

There are more first responder testimony from the first day that day there were plane and body parts. One talks about a piece of spinal column and a shoe with some foot parts.

So since it's now proven that you're a liar, what's your cause? What's your end goal? What compels you to act foolish and lie like you do?

You're an activist. What's your cause?

Just spill it. You've ruined any credibility you might have gained so there's nothing lost now by just telling us.

a reply to: MrBig2430


By this post you demonstrate some level of ignorance regarding the Wally Miller story there in PA.

What happened was that Miller as the county coroner showed up soon after the incident, and with some helpers, walked the field searching for bodies. He was the coroner. He could not find any bodies, and reported that to the news people who greeted him after his inspection.

Some time after that, the FBI showed up, better late than never it seems. Realizing that Wally had accidentally let the cat out of the bag, the agents persuaded him to become "a team player". This was all reported by Miller to Bollyn in I think 2012.

Wally did as the FBI asked, and issued another statement that exactly contradicted his first statement.

So you tell me Mr. Big, in which statement was Miller being truthful?

a reply to: Salander

No, you made a claim about what Miller said directly at the cameras. A quote you cannot provide or reference the actual statement. You cannot cite the news network and reference your claims. Millers first statements taken out of context were to a newspaper reporter, and the state was the wreckage looked dumped. Nothing about no wreckage.

You cannot produce any actual quotes for debate.

Your narrative is false.

Produce a quote from miller that:
A) Flight 93 did not crash at shanksville.
B) There were no human remains.
C) That shanksville had no wreckage.

A person spinning false narratives while making accusations of lies. Hypocritical.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You have never posted video or linked to video that showed evidence of demolitions CD.

Videos showing inward bowing and buckling with no proof of explosions.

9/11: North Tower Collapse (Etienne Sauret)
m.youtube.com...

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

WTC2 Collapse Initiation Sound - Version #1 (B. Levy)
m.youtube.com...

The truth movement started on the belief the towers were brought down by CD is based on lies. The original cry was collapse at free fall speed. The towers fell through the path of greatest resistance. Again the floor system fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall. The core columns at 40 percent the rate free fall. The path of greatest resistance was the core columns, which the core column system remained standing whole seconds after complete collapse of the floor systems. The truth movement is based on lies.

You want to post BS that floor system collapse is not scientific? When the load capacities of floors are based on material science, engineering best practices, and lessons from engineering accidents.

I have posted examples of buildings that have collapsed from overloadeding.

The Madrid Windsor had a complete steel structure failure because of fire above the 17th floor.

Who went in to rig the Plasco building? Why?

If WTC buildings and the Plasco buildings were rigged, how did the demolitions systems, demolitions wiring, and the detonators, survive the fires? How did the demolitions systems in the WTC tower survive jet impacts that cut fire water mains and elevator cables.

Please show where a hi rise building was ever brought down by top down explosives CD or by thermite.

You have posted NO PROOF of CD. While your basis in your belief and false statements have been debunked.

While your questions and concerns are clearly address with video and evidence. While you ignore questions directed at you, and fail to provide any proof.

You only have innuendo and rants based on false narratives.

Thanks for ignoring the whole problem, once again!

You cannot prove this claim, so it's never been provable.

The claim is absolutely provable, in fact.

Sure....but not this one!!

a reply to: turbonium1

What claim are you mystified by?

When overloaded beyond physical capacities, floor connections fail?

Structural steel is covered in fire protection for a reason?

The WTC had deficient fire insulation?

The jet impacts knocked of large sections of deficient fire insulation?

There has never been CD by implosion by explosives of a high rise building over 50 floors?

There has never been a CD of a high rise building by thermite?

There has never been a top down CD implosion of a high rise building by explosives?

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You have never posted video or linked to video that showed evidence of demolitions CD.

Videos showing inward bowing and buckling with no proof of explosions.

9/11: North Tower Collapse (Etienne Sauret)
m.youtube.com...

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

WTC2 Collapse Initiation Sound - Version #1 (B. Levy)
m.youtube.com...

The truth movement started on the belief the towers were brought down by CD is based on lies. The original cry was collapse at free fall speed. The towers fell through the path of greatest resistance. Again the floor system fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall. The core columns at 40 percent the rate free fall. The path of greatest resistance was the core columns, which the core column system remained standing whole seconds after complete collapse of the floor systems. The truth movement is based on lies.

You want to post BS that floor system collapse is not scientific? When the load capacities of floors are based on material science, engineering best practices, and lessons from engineering accidents.

I have posted examples of buildings that have collapsed from overloadeding.

The Madrid Windsor had a complete steel structure failure because of fire above the 17th floor.

Who went in to rig the Plasco building? Why?

If WTC buildings and the Plasco buildings were rigged, how did the demolitions systems, demolitions wiring, and the detonators, survive the fires? How did the demolitions systems in the WTC tower survive jet impacts that cut fire water mains and elevator cables.

Please show where a hi rise building was ever brought down by top down explosives CD or by thermite.

You have posted NO PROOF of CD. While your basis in your belief and false statements have been debunked.

While your questions and concerns are clearly address with video and evidence. While you ignore questions directed at you, and fail to provide any proof.

You only have innuendo and rants based on false narratives.

Thanks for ignoring the whole problem, once again!

You cannot prove this claim, so it's never been provable.

The claim is absolutely provable, in fact.

Sure....but not this one!!

This is how you reply for a request on evidence of CD? To actual start a debate? Got time to rant, you have time to post evidence?

A pity there is no evidence to prove the official story.....

Kean was right, they were set up to fail.

a reply to: Salander

Your the one that cannot back claims. Please provide a documented reference Miller walked out of a field during the flight 93 recovery, and quote what was actually said right to the cameras.

No proof? Start with discrediting the hundreds of civilian that attest to a large commercial jet hitting the pentagon, backed by radar data, backed by first responders and crews recovering remains, evidence, personal effects, backed by DNA and coroner oversight, backed by families that received remains from flight 77?

Especially when you have been repeatedly exposed for false statements and narratives!

State how thorium is a fission product of a nuclear bomb detonation again?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

What claim are you mystified by?

When overloaded beyond physical capacities, floor connections fail?

Structural steel is covered in fire protection for a reason?

The WTC had deficient fire insulation?

The jet impacts knocked of large sections of deficient fire insulation?

There has never been CD by implosion by explosives of a high rise building over 50 floors?

There has never been a CD of a high rise building by thermite?

There has never been a top down CD implosion of a high rise building by explosives?

No, I'm mystified by this claim...

This was a complete, uniform, structural highrise collapse, caused by only random fires and/or random structural damage, which occurred three times, on the very same day.

If you aren't mystified by this claim, then you should have some proof that such a collapse could even be possible, let alone that it happened three times on the same day.

The truth is that you have no proof it's even possible.

Suppose I built a flying car. I showed you my car rising ten feet up, into mid-air, and then, I lowered the car back down to the ground. Would you accept my claim that this was the world's first fully functional flying car?

No chance, because you didn't have proof it worked as claimed.

That's the same for your claim, in fact.

We've never had such collapses from fire/damage, ever before. There''s been partial collapses, but nothing close to a total, uniform, collapse.

That's how you argue - we've had structural collapses before.

You forget to mention that none have ever been close to being a total collapse.... which is like my 'flying car' , that didn't really fly. But it sort of looked like it would fly....

What you seem incapable of understanding here, is that your claim, if it were true, would have revolutionized physics, all structural sciences, and have vast repercussions elsewhere.

Refer to any source, any expert, any document, that actually supports this claim with legitimate evidence, solid proof of the claim

Show me that this is even possible, with a simple demonstration, in the real world.


It is becoming more and more of a fantasy-world, where almost anything that never could happen, magically can happen. Simply by the 'authorities' telling us it's possible, it MUST be possible!!

911 made you think such a collapse is possible, when it is obviously impossible.

To know they have not proven the 'theory' doesn't bother you?

Authorities have told us to die for our country, to keep our 'freedoms', because we have enemies that hate 'our freedoms'.

They are absolute liars. The authorities, themselves, are the only true enemies of people. They always have been, and always will be.

Americans don't know who the enemy is until the authorities tell them. Accepted as 100% fact, always.

When the authorities made up lies about WMD's in Iraq, which created an 'enemy', which Americans accepted as 100% fact, which justified invading Iraq, and killing thousands of Iraqis with bombs, and realized later on that no WMD's existed in Iraq, and this war started because of WMD's in Iraq, so they either were in midst of transitioning into mindless zombies, at the time....or they lied.

When it was known by Americans in Iraq to be a falsehood, a few of them wanted to get out of Iraq, because the whole war is based on lies.

These liars who then declared them anarchists, anti-American, and traitors.

Now, to kill innocent people doesn't matter, because that's just a part of any 'war', so keep defending America in Iraq, it's very much appreciated over here, in America!


A building that falls in seconds is normal, and WMD's were a lie that led Americans to loss of limbs, to death, to kill thousands of people for a lie, but that's fine and dandy, too.


Obviously, they don't ever murder innocent people in buildings, or lie about who killed these innocent people, just to start a war. A war that is eternal, because the enemies are everywhere, in American cities, walking on our streets, living here, because they have one purpose - to kill, and terrorize, all Americans!

When you know it was all a lie, you don't care, you fight and die as usual, for that's being 'patriotic'!


Nothing gets through, ever.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You have never posted video or linked to video that showed evidence of demolitions CD.

Videos showing inward bowing and buckling with no proof of explosions.

9/11: North Tower Collapse (Etienne Sauret)
m.youtube.com...

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

WTC2 Collapse Initiation Sound - Version #1 (B. Levy)
m.youtube.com...

The truth movement started on the belief the towers were brought down by CD is based on lies. The original cry was collapse at free fall speed. The towers fell through the path of greatest resistance. Again the floor system fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall. The core columns at 40 percent the rate free fall. The path of greatest resistance was the core columns, which the core column system remained standing whole seconds after complete collapse of the floor systems. The truth movement is based on lies.

You want to post BS that floor system collapse is not scientific? When the load capacities of floors are based on material science, engineering best practices, and lessons from engineering accidents.

I have posted examples of buildings that have collapsed from overloadeding.

The Madrid Windsor had a complete steel structure failure because of fire above the 17th floor.

Who went in to rig the Plasco building? Why?

If WTC buildings and the Plasco buildings were rigged, how did the demolitions systems, demolitions wiring, and the detonators, survive the fires? How did the demolitions systems in the WTC tower survive jet impacts that cut fire water mains and elevator cables.

Please show where a hi rise building was ever brought down by top down explosives CD or by thermite.

You have posted NO PROOF of CD. While your basis in your belief and false statements have been debunked.

While your questions and concerns are clearly address with video and evidence. While you ignore questions directed at you, and fail to provide any proof.

You only have innuendo and rants based on false narratives.

Thanks for ignoring the whole problem, once again!

You cannot prove this claim, so it's never been provable.

The claim is absolutely provable, in fact.

Sure....but not this one!!

This is how you reply for a request on evidence of CD? To actual start a debate? Got time to rant, you have time to post evidence?

If you want evidence of a CD...

Start with the fact that every piece of steel collected, DIDN'T support their own 'fire' theory. That is your own claim, and nothing supports it. So why are you going on, babbling about showing no evidence of a CD, is quite ironic.

Everything starts with YOUR ORIGINAL CLAIM. That is the first claim, and is the only claim taken as factual, as proven, the official account of the collapses.

Fires caused the collapse. Although none of the steel collected was ever found to support this theory, it doesn't matter. That's the great thing about leaving a heap-load of evidence as nothing more than scrap metal.

And it is the evidence that they didn't collect, that supports their fire theory, at the same time!!


Why do you think I'm asking for evidence of your claim? Because it gets to the most important issue of all....


Anyone should want proof, it's odd that some of you don't care.

a reply to: turbonium1

Let's start again...

Your only stance was too much dust?
Floor connections cannot be overloaded?

You try to spin a false narrative that load capacities of floor connections are not understood and based on physical properties of material and best engineering practices through engineering failures.

You claim the towers cannot be repeated? While I can cite examples of building collapse from violating load capacities.

You ignore the Madrid Windsor and the steel structure collapsed from fire. The concrete supports were the only thing that stop a total building collapse.

You ignore there has never been a explosives implosion CD of a building over 50 floors.

Never has been a high rise CD by Thermite.

Never has been a top down explosive CD of high rise building.

You cannot explain how a sophisticated CD system requiring supposed floor to floor installation was secretly installed? How such a system survive jet impacts that cut elevator cables, cut fire water mains, and survived building wide fires.

The original interest in the towers was based on lies.

One, the floor system of the towers fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall. The core columns at 40 percent free fall.

Two, large lengths of the core columns were left standing whole seconds after the complete collapse of the floor system.

Three, people still say the towers fell at the rate of free fall. The truth movement takes no action to correct this false perception.

The truth movement is based on the lies of:
The towers fell at the rate of free fall speed. The towers fell through the path of greatest resistance to create a symmetrical collapse.

The truth movement relies on people believing in false statements to survive.

And, again.........

Pre 9/11 studies showed the WTC fire insulation was insufficient.

The WTC design used less concrete beyond normal engineering practices to minimize costs.

The floor trusses were longer than common engineering practices with no supports along their lengths.

The jets hit, and damaged numerous columns beyond their ability to support load. The load of the building was transferred to the columns retaining their integrity.

The jet impacts knocked of fire protect insulation.

Steel looses 60 percent of its ability to resist load around 1000 degrees Celsius.

The fires burned.

The floor trusses in the areas of the jet impacts heated up. Tried to expand in length. The floor trusses boxed in by surviving columns could not expand in length. The floor trusses trying to expand and weaken by heat sagged/bowed down in the middle. Upon cooling, the floor trusses contracted, caused isolated areas of vertical columns buckling. Isolated in the context in areas relative to the jet impacts.

A video of the buckling can be seen here
the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

The buckling lead to the collapse of the building above into the remaining building below. The load capacity of the floor connections were overloaded. The floor system of the towers were stripped away from the vertical columns.

a reply to: turbonium1


That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST, and that 16 years later some people are still reciting that official explanation with no evidence whatsoever, demonstrates clearly that yes it is true, some people can be fooled all of the time. A sad comment on part of the human condition.

a reply to: Salander

Then what is your explanation of inward bowing and buckling of tower columns in these videos...


the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/
www.metabunk.org...

South Tower Falls, shot front of Trinity Church (Rare).
m.youtube.com...

42A0348 - G30D2 -- Video 7 of 8 (Enhanced Video & Audio) -- R30 -- NIST FOIA #09-42
m.youtube.com...

WTC Tower Sways during Collapse.
m.youtube.com...

9/11 WTC North Tower collapse by Etienne Sauret. Visible shaking 12 seconds before collapse
m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: turbonium1


That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST, and that 16 years later some people are still reciting that official explanation with no evidence whatsoever, demonstrates clearly that yes it is true, some people can be fooled all of the time. A sad comment on part of the human condition.

Well you be sure and let us know when you come up with an alternative explanation that works. Maybe in another 16 years you might manage that

a reply to: Salander

That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST

That's just being obtuse.
You act like 99.99% of people are flat out stupid.
But somehow you and a handful of people are smarter that the rest.
When asked you cannot provide any provable evidence to support your beliefs.

It used to be entertaining to debate 911 on here.
But it has devolved into debating with a dust storm.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Salander

That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST

It used to be entertaining to debate 911 on here.
But it has devolved into debating with a dust storm.

Have you seen this thread?

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: turbonium1


That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST, and that 16 years later some people are still reciting that official explanation with no evidence whatsoever, demonstrates clearly that yes it is true, some people can be fooled all of the time. A sad comment on part of the human condition.

Well you be sure and let us know when you come up with an alternative explanation that works. Maybe in another 16 years you might manage that

When you let me know that you can prove any element of the official story, I shall reciprocate. As it stands right now, you and your mates are unable to prove the official narrative, and you've had 16 years to do so. Sorry, 14 years to do so, as POTUS Bush suppressed an investigation for about 2 years.

As he said, let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September 11; malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Salander

That there is no evidence to support the official explanation offered by NIST

That's just being obtuse.
You act like 99.99% of people are flat out stupid.
But somehow you and a handful of people are smarter that the rest.
When asked you cannot provide any provable evidence to support your beliefs.

It used to be entertaining to debate 911 on here.
But it has devolved into debating with a dust storm.

No Sam, it's just being brutally frank. It is simply a demonstration of what H.L. Mencken noted nearly a century ago: The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos.

It's not rocket science, only analytical thinking, examining the facts and evidence and reaching a logical conclusion.