Gay Genes, Religous implications ?

Originally posted by mattison0922
Has anyone here considered the idea that maybe some people are biologically gay, and others are gay by 'choice?'

yes i considered it, posted the knowledge i had from a scientific experiment on the subject.

Ah, and saying "I was born black" is nothing more than an attempt to evade responsability for your skincolor?

Again Jak, nothing even similar. You just can't possibly compare being gay and being black. Skin color is a physical trait. Homosexuality is not. We do not become sexual beings until puberty. Show me a 6 year old boy that has sexual desires. I'm not talking about a boy that has discovered his pee-pee. You don't see people that are white until puberty turning black all of a sudden.

You want me to leave you alone but also want me to rush to your deffence everytime someone says something you dont like?

Try reading the post right before your last response AMUK !
No, never mind, just drop it. I'm tired of the anti-Christian agenda that you seem to share with most people on here. I would like to see some of you come to my church or to a promise keepers event and share your thoughts. There you'd be in the minority and I'd like to see how you'd handle it.
So just back off AMUK and drop it.

By the way three of the names were called on the evolution and witchcraft threads.

Originally posted by deesw
I'm tired of the anti-Christian agenda that you seem to share with most people on here.

That will come as quite a suprise to my wife who is a Christian.

By the way three of the names were called on the evolution and witchcraft threads.

Well now that narrows it down to about 400 threads, I will be sure to labor over each and every one to try to find where you were insulted

A LINK would be helpful

To whomever mentioned depression etc.
Psychology as far as I am concerned has turned into nothng more than a institutionalised excuse machine.
Depression, ADHD etc are nothng more than excuses for those who refuse to tke responsibilty for thier own emotional state.
Skin color jakko is the result of pigmentation.
Also jakko you should reread the diet-pills article. At no point in that article do the scientist who actually did the study ever advance it as proof that people are "born gay"
The simple fact is that there is a huge difference between a statistical correlaton and a casual effect.
nt no point do those who actually did the study even imply a casual effect.
Are you capable of understanding the difference?

The sad thing is many of you actually believe you have no control over what you feel.
Why you would be willing to abandon or dismiss your ability to control the only thing you have any control over, your own inner world, I dont know. Maybe the idea that you are in control of your own mind scares you.
However the simple fact is the one and only thing you will ever have total control over is you mind, emotons, thoughts feelings etc. in other words your inner world.
To the bisexual poster, I dont know why you touched yourself at 5 but the simple fact that you did leads me to believe that something in your life twisted your natural sexual development.
Yes the brain has chemicals which can act to regulate moods sleep etc. however wht you fail to take into account is that even though you may be unaware of it, you are in control of those chemicals and thier release.
The idea that people are born gay, and that there is nothng wrong with it makes people feel emlightned, and tolerant, the truth is though that it makes you feel that way becuse afterall if gays have no control over thier sexuality it makes it easer for you to shift blame for your own lack of control of yourself to biology.
Your not undiscliplined. you have ADHD.
Your not a sexually depraved equal opportunity slut, you are biologically bisexual.
Your not weak, you suffer from depression.
These are very comforting les to tell yourself because it excuses you from the hard work of taking control of yourself, it allows you to blame your genes, your environment, the medications your mother took when pregnant etc, anything but yourself.
Blame it on the rain baby.
Whatever you do dont put the blame on you

Well now that narrows it down to about 400 threads, I will be sure to labor over each and every one to try to find where you were insulted

Damn dude, just drop it and leave me alone.

Mwm1331, very very good points all of them. Noone takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. I saw on the news where a 15 year old boy murdered his grandparents and then burned down their house. His defense was that the anti-depression drug Zoloft made him do it and that therefore he could not be held responsible for what he did.
Well the court decided that that was a load of crap. He got 30 years. He should get death. There seems to be an excuse for every action in the world nowadays. Post partem depression, ADHD, OCD, clinical depression, terets, bipolar. These are all legitimate conditions, but none are excuses. I've heard people talking about guns killing people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It takes a person to pull the trigger.
A gene or a trait does not make people gay, people make people gay. You all can search and search for excuses to point blame, but in the end a man makes a decision to have sex with another man. A DECISION, a CHOICE. No unknown force holds him hostage, undresses him and forces him to have sex with another man. There needs to be a lot of growing up in this country and responsibility needs to be had.

what about a young boy of 5 who plays with dolls even if his own father buy him truck and G.I joes....
young boys who like to play the "mommy" even if his dad don't want that...
It's way before puberty....

www.foxnews.com...

see....comes from FOX....should be a good source for you

Amelia, do you really belive that just because a young boy display's effeminate quailites that it automatically means he's gay?
Do you believe all homosexuals are effeminate?
Do you believe all heterosexuals are masculine?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Do you believe all homosexuals are effeminate?
Do you believe all heterosexuals are masculine?

No, but some of them are and it shows in their childhood....you did not check my link...does it scare you??????? FOX news, you trust that as an american...any way

Ameliaxxxxxxx

Not everyone takes their coffee with cream and sugar......Let me elaborate

Everyone will agree to the fact that there are often multiple paths to a central location...I think what has been neglected to be mentioned thus far is that, simply b/c myself, or the next person advocates our belief that there are biological purposes for being gay does not mean that we also accept the belief that some simply choose to be gay and are: (a) capable of changing, (b) "exploring" their sexuality, and/or (c) just trying to fit in the best way they can....

mwm - I noticed you essentially dismissed any psychological explanations of homosexuality....but I simply don't see how that makes any sense.....You will agree with me that homosexuality can be a decision that is made by someone of their own free will? Does that not require the use of our brains? Is there not some basis in this "feeling" people have with Freud's Structural and Topographical Model?

Then how can any and all evidence from unbiased psychological research be so easily dismissed and excused?

Regardless - That being said, I have another article I've found that may be of interest to some of you:
The Biological Research on Homosexuality
I believe NARTH (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) to be quite a respectable source and am interested in a rebuttal based upon some of the points brought up in the report I've provided a link to, above, or any other related materials....

Hmmm…Just thinking out loud – This would be an interesting debate topic…I’d respectfully challenge someone if we can only find where MacKiller ran off to…

[edit on 2/16/2005 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

No, not all gays have feminine attributes...many are very masculine. Earlier in the ridiculous, sad thread, I explained about a couple of children that used to come over and play with the all other kids in the neighborhood when my boys were young, you could see they would be gay....it was very plain, and they are today, gay adults. Whether this is a gene, or some type of chemical in the brain, or an imbalance of some type....it is not their fault, it is not choice. I am so deeply disturbed and disgusted with this thread, that this is the last I will be in it. It has gotten to the point where I lay in bed at night, and wonder at humans beings in this world more than I usually do, due to the stupidity I am seeing in this thread....so I'm gone.
Blessings.....

Wow amelia two ignorant stereotypes n two posts you are batting a thousand.
First you say that if a boy s effeminate it means hes gay now you say f someone is american they trust fox news.
As for the article the evidence is hardly solid.
The correlatons was only slghtly higher than waht would be expected by random chance, in addition they only showed a coorelation between homosexuality and certain gene sequences, not a causal effect.
It could be that the genes fund simply code for fashion sense.
In addtion if the genes found were only shared by 60% of those known homsexuals tested, how does that support your contentin that homosexuality is genetic?
all cacausians share the same genes for pigmentation as it is a heredtary and genetically based trait.

The genetic scans showed a clustering of the same genetic pattern among the gay men on three chromosomes -- chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. These common genetic patterns were shared by 60 percent of the gay men in the study. This is slightly more than the 50 percent expected by chance alone.

furthermore the researcher themselves go on to state that

“Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we’re never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not,” says Mustanski. “It’s going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences.”

So we have a statistical coorelation which may show a predisposition to homosexuality based on certain genes only shared by 60% of those homosexuals tested which may have been influenced by encironmental factors as well.
yeah thats concrete all right.

To be quite honest enron I am still attempting to understand and digest the links you provided earlier. I will however read this one as well.
As for a psychologcal basis for homosexuality that may well be, if by psychological you mean a subconscious choice.
I take a dim view of psychology overall as it is much harder to prove experimentally. I am also of the opinion that the variation between human personalities motvations etc. is simply too great to apply rules to human behavior in all but the broadest sense. The human psyche is so unbelievably complex that I wonder if we will ever have a true understandng of it. However I think that it may well shed sme light on ths debate. Give me a little time to digest your info and I will get back to you.

However my own persoanal theory which I admit is based on nothng more than my own experiential knowledge is that all non physical traits, as well as some physical traits are in fact self directed or for lack of a better term choices. I would include in this tastes in food, music, depression paranoia weight etc.Though I dont belev the bulk of these choices are made concsiously.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by mwm1331]

Originally posted by mwm1331
The human psyche is so unbelievably complex that I wonder if we will ever have a true understandng of it.

I share that sentiment....And I too believe that psychology can be viewed as being overtly "spread out" to make any true correlations between all the sub-fields of research and data seem useless and unfathomable....

Nonetheless, it serves as one of the only forms of accepted scientific research that attempts to divulge the links between our bodies and our actions...luckily it's still based in a realm of hypotheses and experimentations, which leads to contradicting and disproving previous methods of thought....

But if you do get a chance to sift through those though articles...or if anyone else does, as I realize it’s a lot...I'm open to discussion....

Originally posted by mwm1331
However my own persoanal theory which I admit is based on nothng more than my own experiential knowledge is that all non physical traits, as well as some physical traits are in fact self directed or for lack of a better term choices. I would include in this tastes in food, music, depression paranoia weight etc.Though I dont belev the bulk of these choices are made concsiously.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by mwm1331]

Who are you to be making theories? You can't keep hiding behind your faulty theories when you're far from a professional.

It has gotten to the point where I lay in bed at night, and wonder at humans beings in this world more than I usually do, due to the stupidity I am seeing in this thread....so I'm gone.

I wonder as well at night ladyv. I wonder how much longer God will allow us to go on like we are. He didn't allow Sodom and Gomorrah to last as long as we have.

Who are you to be making theories? You can't keep hiding behind your faulty theories when you're far from a professional.

How do you possibly know thi9s person's background, TRASH? How?

What stunns me most about this thread, is that some people rather make up their own stupid theories, than just read what freaking scientists have to say about it!

It can not become any clearer than the conclusions of the pill research, it should be pretty obvious to any sane human being that this research means that gay people are born like this.

Since the research has never been the topic of dicussion, I am starting a thread about how valid this research is, just to know what people have to say about it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by IBM




Provide me with hard evidence that an infant is born gay. If not, you have nothing.

!

Right back at ya,
Provide me with hard evidence that an a homosexual isn't born gay. If not, you have nothing. Sheeeesh....you had to see that coming, at least you'd think one would.

[edit on 2/15/2005 by LadyV]

So its agreed I will stick to my opinions, which I think are correct and your opinions which you think are correct. And by the way, scientific community really thinks that gays are really an abnormality, so there is more leaning to my view.