Healthcare and hospitals should all be not-for-profit

a reply to: dfnj2015

Very well said.

Capitalism and good quality affordable health care can not exist in the same universe. Anyone who can't see that is stuck in their conservative mind set and refusing to look at the facts.

originally posted by: blueyedevilwoman

originally posted by: musicismagic

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: musicismagic

So you are for the profit-motive in healthcare. Getting rid of people with pre-existing conditions will be HUGE profit for the CEOs. This is America!

All the cancer patients who can't get out of bed should be on the hill lobbying their congressmen.

Ask yourself, what does profit motive mean. I will tell you , it means GREED over caring. What I stated was that the politicians get what the Americans want but until recently were not allowed to have.
In Japan there is NO such such thing as a 5000 up front fee before the insurance kicks in.
Americans need to WISE up. Insurance co. are also gansta's.

Insurance companies should be banned, all of them.

Doctors in America should know:

Uncalcified gall stones can be passed without surgically removing the gall bladder.

Parasites are the primary root cause of many afflictions.

Type 2 diabetes is curable.

But they dont teach this in school.

And this is just one of many created problems.

Cigarettes legal, mj largely not legal.

Against the law to drink and drive, perfectly legal to sell alcohol in an establishment that is inaccessible except by automobiles.

Pharmaceuticals companies make billions selling drugs that "treat" but do not cure anything. And now they come with side effects like....cancer?

Many more things are just plain wrong.

I do not buy into the greedy corporations or stupid politicians though.

It is clearly by design.

Kill the poor off............first.

Due to recent technological advances. I predict within ten years, many people will be awarded the useless eater label.

The last groups to be awarded the useless eater label will be L.E. and medical personnel.

I give you an award of "Insight of the Year". The world is full of trickery.

I wish healthcare would be socialized here, with basic coverage overlooked by our government. I cannot see giving doctors a signed checkbook to do things. We have to start to evaluate quality of life in this country, right now there is a lot of torturing going on, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to increase someone's life by less than a year in which time they go through hell till deciding to quit the treatment.

It would be lots better to identify what food chemistry is causing all the cancer and expression of hereditary diseases than to treat these things after they are already there. There is enough research already to identify some of this, the USA is doing way less on this than European countries are. Here they do genetic research to identify risk factors associated with giving meds, in England they are trying to identify factors that eliminate the getting of the disease to save money. Nutrigenomics and epigenetics and metabolomics are still young sciences. But well worth spending money because they are aimed at stopping diseases.

Healthcare here in America is for profit, the sicker we are, the more money healthcare gets to pay workers and buy equipment.

a reply to: butcherguy

Have you seen how a private health care co treats it's patients with no insurance-they don't.

I feel we are at a cross roads with the system that has been exploited for the last 70ish years. It needs to be modified to stop the exploitation of the patients.

a reply to: musicismagic

That is true, banning health insurance co's would be one way to let the for real free market set prices.

I would not want to be the guy who needs a heart valve worked on the day after no insurance rules are in effect though.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I wish healthcare would be socialized here, with basic coverage overlooked by our government. I cannot see giving doctors a signed checkbook to do things. We have to start to evaluate quality of life in this country, right now there is a lot of torturing going on, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to increase someone's life by less than a year in which time they go through hell till deciding to quit the treatment.

It would be lots better to identify what food chemistry is causing all the cancer and expression of hereditary diseases than to treat these things after they are already there. There is enough research already to identify some of this, the USA is doing way less on this than European countries are. Here they do genetic research to identify risk factors associated with giving meds, in England they are trying to identify factors that eliminate the getting of the disease to save money. Nutrigenomics and epigenetics and metabolomics are still young sciences. But well worth spending money because they are aimed at stopping diseases.

Healthcare here in America is for profit, the sicker we are, the more money healthcare gets to pay workers and buy equipment.

hey the share holders never get sick, so why the fk do they care?

a reply to: musicismagic

The share holders are hoping they don't get sick. And I would imagine they believe in the lie that the US health care system is #1 and the best.

Sadly it is not.

a reply to: dfnj2015

When I had my last child I got an itemized bill and not only did they throw in stuff I never took or used they charged me $12.00 for two Tylenol I took after my child was born. I delivered totally drug free. They charged me for an epidural I never had, because oh every woman has one.
But the $12.00 for two pills (not Tylenol with codeine which they offered but I was breastfeeding and declined) that just blew me away. I don't want to get too graphic but they charged a fortune for, shall we say, absorbent material that would be $6.00 in the corner Walgreens.

originally posted by: rickymouse

It would be lots better to identify what food chemistry is causing all the cancer

Back in the 70s and early 80s it seemed like a child getting cancer was national news.
It just wasnt a thing then.

Smoking causes lung cancer?
Then why do so many non-smokers get lung cancer?
Almost equal to smokers rates.

Now we have gmo everything. And it is cheap.

So do you want to eat, or do you want to live.

$4.50 for a gallon of milk, or $4.50 for a half gallon of the non-gmo alternative.

Same with veggies.
3 for a $1 cucumbers and corn, saturated in pesticides and herbicides and genetically modified to grow in it.

3$ for a non-gmo organic cucumber.

I remember watching Mr. Wizard as a kid. He was talking in one episode about how the gmo corn was going to end world hunger by providing seeds that could survive drought conditions.

Yeah, its ending world hunger alright.

But more than 80% of U.S. hospitals are public/non-profit.

And something like 87% of hospital beds are public/non-profit.

What's the problem?

Fast Facts on US Hospitals

a reply to: Sillyolme

Public or Private hospital ?

a reply to: seasonal

Have you seen how a private health care co treats it's patients with no insurance-they don't.

The same way a lender treats a person applying for a mortgage when they have a low credit rating and no job.

But health care is a right!

Shouldn't a roof over one's head be a right too?

So I want a really expensive house like Bill Gates lives in.

We enter the area where the celebrity baby with a heart condition argument is.

originally posted by: xuenchen
But more than 80% of U.S. hospitals are public/non-profit.

And something like 87% of hospital beds are public/non-profit.

What's the problem?

Fast Facts on US Hospitals

Getting a doctor to admit you.

First off, the problem lies with the individual not taking care of themselves. Someone chooses to live an unhealthy lifestyle, develops some terrible affliction, and expects the health industry to fix them for a couple dollars. You made the lifestyle choices, it would have been a lot cheaper to eat healthy and exercise, as opposed to relying to the health industry to 'fix you'. Americans being on average unhealthy has a lot to do with rising prices, and insurance companies are not part of the healthcare industry.

It's funny how leftists that have no understanding of an issue happen to have a very strong opinion about it.

In 1960, businesses, households, and other private sponsors financed 77 percent of health care expenditures, while governments sponsored the remaining 23 percent. However, by 2013 the shares had shifted significantly, with 57 percent of health spending sponsored by businesses, households, and other private revenues and 43 percent sponsored by governments. Households experienced the largest shifts, declining from 56 percent in 1960 to 28 percent in 2013

www.cms.gov...

originally posted by: GodEmperor
First off, the problem lies with the individual not taking care of themselves.

I live in New Jersey. On rainy days trucks just drive down the New Jersey Turnpike with the values open to get rid of toxic waste. How isn't my responsibility to take care of myself when there is a profit motive for companies to pollute? A company has no incentive to keep the environment clean so people do not get cancers.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Nothing is perfect, but trusting the administration of healthcare to the government is what has the system as screwed up as it is now.
Medicare/Medicaid.

No administration, whether private or public, will function properly without checks and balances. You make it sound like the for-profit corporations are God's little angels.

The problem with for-profit corporations is not just rationing. They are DENYING services for more PROFIT! One thing is rationing. It's another thing to have denial of service. It's more profitable to just let people die.

If hospitals have a capacity issue, then that's a different problem than denial of service or rationing.

a reply to: dfnj2015
I could almost get behind the idea of all hospitals being non-profit organizations, but there are three problems with this in my mind, one directed at your OP, the other is a philosophical concern:

1. The fact that you want to play the blame game only on the Republicans negates much of the credibility that may exist in your argument,

2. The government should not be able to tell a private company what type of business model it should follow, and

3. If those of means prefer to go to for-profit hospitals because they can afford it and assume that they get better care there, the government should not be able to stop that.

But, the idea of non-profit hospitals obviously has merit, because (and according to this possibly outdated note on this Wiki page), for-profit hospitals make up only about 18% of all of the hospitals in the United States (cited as a 2003 statistic...I don't presume that it's changed much in 14 years).

That's less than one out of every five hospitals that you encounter in America. I don't think that for-profit hospitals are quite the epidemic that you seem to think that they are.

But the problem with pre-existing conditions is that many are treatable with lifestyle changes--becoming healthier in a way that only the individual can control. In those instances, they should be paying much more for health insurance, because they burden that the put on the insurance pool because of their personal choices should not be my financial responsibility just so that they don't have to pay for their own mistakes.

Health insurance should be treated like auto insurance, plain and simple. We should quit claiming every visit to the doctor on our insurance, or every medication on our insurance. Insurance should be there to aid in the catastrophic things that we can't control in life and that are high-cost repairs or life-threatening issues needing immediate medical attention.

Health insurance is unaffordable to some people, but it's because of the mandates that everything be paid for by insurance, or at least covered to some monetary value or percentage of cost--of course that's going to cause prices to skyrocket. But this is not the fault of the hospitals, and like I said, considering that less than 1/5th of our nation's hospitals are for-profit businesses, your call to nationalize the healthcare system is based on a false premise, at least in what you put forth in this thread.

Let it be known, though, that I think that certain chronic, unavoidable diseases should be protected from being considered pre-existing conditions, but if that condition is avoidable due to lifestyle choices, those should not be protected because personal responsibility matters in the real world.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
First off, the problem lies with the individual not taking care of themselves. Someone chooses to live an unhealthy lifestyle, develops some terrible affliction, and expects the health industry to fix them for a couple dollars.

Ok. What about the healthy lifestyle people.

They get cancer and ........what?

Yeah, for a couple of dollars....and?

Its just worthless paper faith tickets.
They can print all they need to bail out banks and other industries. Why not health care for its citizens?

Seems to workout for many other industrialized nations that have fewer resources.

a reply to: butcherguy

Why stop there with your philosophy. Why not proactively thin out the strain so only the very best and brightest are living? Where do you draw the line of what is moral and what is not. You seem to have no morals. I would argue to be human would mean taking care of anyone who needs it.

Maybe it's time to close some of our 700+ foreign military bases we have around the world. Why should the American people provide FREE healthcare to the German people from exorbitant military base rents when our people here have so many social needs. Where do you draw the line. That's the question. For many people, America is never first on the list.

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's more profitable to just let people die.

It is actually more profitable to let them die with empty pockets.

You work and save to live comfortably in your retirement. You live your last days in an old age home... unless your money runs out.
Yes, no crap, companies exist because they want to make a profit.
The healthcare companies have a great racket because not many people are eager to die, nor are they eager to have their loved ones die.
I don't think the government is the answer.
The government takes money from your paycheck so that you have money to pay healthcare companies when you are old and frail.