underdog vs super heavyweight

I have a history of supporting the underdog, the little guy....and NK is definitely the underdog against the USA. Of course, if you accept the NK is just a proxy for China, then it isn't really an underdog at all...but if it appears that way.... 150,000 troops on the border to stop refugees? Repeat that often enough and you might just believe it, but maybe they are there for another reason.

Anyway...back to the underdog thing. Here is my superficial high level analysis...and recommendations for NK should Mr.T decide that life is too boring. Even though I often like underdogs, I don't support NK....I'm more of a neutral dude. Or really, I just feel like writing some BS.

So, here's my analysis under a scenario that Mr.T is itching to flex some American muscle.

Mr.T will launch a bevy of Tomahawks at missile launch sites and nuclear facilities. A lot more than 60 that were fired at Syria. [Raytheon employees clap here] NK will take damage and will no longer be able to create new nuclear material. But, they already have some deployed - miniaturized.

For the NK counterattack -

- Immediately launch EMPs that will cover South Korea and Japan. That will cause chaos. It will also affect US bases. But since NK isn't actually going to drop a destructive nuke, that complicates a US response - for if the US were to drop a conventional nuke on NK, then NK would have license to launch conventional nukes at Japan and South Korea. Going from no electricity - to total destruction. The US could fire an EMP at NK, yeah that affects Pyongyang....but relatively speaking, no harm, no foul. The Norks are used to austerity anyway. The Japanese and SKs...not at all. They live in bubble consumer worlds and their bubble has burst.

Let's just say the US backs off on using conventional nukes for the time being, but does start blowing away some NK military assets.

- NK should then start using conventional artillery against SK.

- US then continues flying fighter missions and bombing missions to take out more conventional NK assets while preparing for a land invasion. Air superiority.

- Reports in the news indicate that NK may have a carrier killer. Well, it probably was just a gift from China. So immediately launch a few of those at a US carrier and a destroyer or two or a Tomahawk carrying missile boat. That will keep those fighter aircraft away and minimize the amount of Tomahawk cruise missiles. Americans are stunned by the heavy fleet losses. No air superiority. Thousands of americans dead.

- US sends in stealth aircraft straight from Guam or the Continental USA because of carrier and cruise missile issues as noted above.

- Well, NK will certainly take damage from these guys. But, they secretly have acquired stealth radar from China. Which means they can blow away some of these US Stealth aircraft. Which will stun American military planners. B-2 shot down?

Anti-stealth radar
Anti Stealth Radar (Janes)

- Some limited land skirmishes...but then there is a stalemate as each side licks their wounds.

- Then secret video comes out that China has given NK numerous high tech assets - the missiles and radar. And nuke technology. All along....2x cross, hypocrisy, whatever.

- This makes everyone mad. People are crying for blood. World economy is in a tailspin as electronics power houses of Japan and SK are offline so to speak. World trade slows down. People start to learn just how interconnected we are. No more iphones, ipads, etc... cuz 65%+ of memory comes from SK & Japan - and all that is offline. No more cheap Chinese crap - except for what has already been shipped.

- Then China and USA and related allies start threatening each other....and well the FOG OF WAR leads to......

then...well, end of my BS story....

a reply to: dontneedaname

But, they secretly have acquired stealth radar from China. Which means they can blow away some of these US Stealth aircraft. Which will stun American military planners. B-2 shot down?

Interesting thread...so you're suggesting that NK could be used by the Chinese to see what "strength" the USA actually has. Wouldn't this also suggest that the US would use the same tactics to draw North Korea to attack so they see how sophisticated the Chinese backed North Korean tech is?

originally posted by: dontneedanameMr.T.

Mr T.

AKA Sippy Cup

a reply to: dontneedaname

America won't use nukes on NK. America won't put a large number of boots on the ground either. That's what China is for. I don't think you realize what's about to happen. Two Great White sharks have agreed to feast upon a Sea Bass. The US Air Force and Navy will pummel NK with conventional weapons, and cyber weapons. The Chinese army will play mop up, securing NK and annexing it. Stability will be brought back, China gets more land and a threat to US national security is elimated. All the while, Russia's world power and influence continue to wane an Sino-American ties begin to strengthen.

a reply to: lambs to lions

I buy that.

The war would be over in 5 hours if it were really on.

A lot has changes since the 50's.

a reply to: dontneedaname

Take a look around your house and see where almost everything is made......China.
Better yet....go to pretty much any department store and check the shelves.....China.
China is not going to give NK any type of advanced weapons technology that they could use against us for that reason alone.
Their economy would tank if the USA stopped imports from China after one of our aircraft carriers was sank or heavily damaged by Chinese missiles that were sold to NK.
The old saying is - you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

North Korea is not an underdog. They are the belligerent and the antagonist.

a reply to: dontneedaname


Personaly i dont think China sent 150k trops to prevent NK from leaving NK. Just like Russia didnt send three trainloads of Air defence systems to prevent NK from fleeing into Russia.
Russia have stated that they controll the airspace of NK. Russia probably also controll a large portion of the sea and airspace in the Sea Of Japan, With their systems.

I think both China and Russia are present With their Resources to prevent the US from going all in With NK.

We also have no information about if Russia and China have delivered assets to help NK to protect it self against a US strike.

a reply to: spy66

Interesting thoery young man. If this is true then the Usa needs to open its can of whoop ass on china and putin as well.

But consdiering are military budgets that's not a big drama. We'd have both of them beat to a pulp within 5 hours.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: dontneedaname


Personaly i dont think China sent 150k trops to prevent NK from leaving NK. Just like Russia didnt send three trainloads of Air defence systems to prevent NK from fleeing into Russia.
Russia have stated that they controll the airspace of NK. Russia probably also controll a large portion of the sea and airspace in the Sea Of Japan, With their systems.

I think both China and Russia are present With their Resources to prevent the US from going all in With NK.

We also have no information about if Russia and China have delivered assets to help NK to protect it self against a US strike.

China have stated they are sick of North Koreas #.

North Korea serves no purpose to either China or Russia in this day and age.
China will be relieved North Korea is gone and use it as a bargaining chip.

And worse Russia will do is send a angry letter to the UN. Long as they get to keep the part of Ukraine they stole they will let Trump have North Korea.

originally posted by: FuggleHop
a reply to: spy66

Interesting thoery young man. If this is true then the Usa needs to open its can of whoop ass on china and putin as well.

But consdiering are military budgets that's not a big drama. We'd have both of them beat to a pulp within 5 hours.

The only think that will take minimum of time, Is getting ridd of the US carrier fleet heading into the Sea of Japan.

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: dontneedanameMr.T.

Mr T.

AKA Sippy Cup

I pity the fool

originally posted by: crazyewok
North Korea serves no purpose to either China or Russia in this day and age.

North Korea act as a buffer between the successful democratic South Korea and the autocratic Chinese. China does not want a unified Korea and Russia wants to status quo too. Keeping North Korea going is just a way to prevent China having a land border with a nation that has free internet and functions without being a dictatorship.

It's this "buffer" mentality. Russia fear the encroachment of successful European democracies as they highlight deficiencies, so too China wants to preserve a buffer. If you have successful democracies on your border, then it's harder to persuade your population that you have the best model.

a reply to: paraphi

North Korea act as a buffer between the successful democratic South Korea and the autocratic Chinese

True, but as I stated in another thread what the Chinese DO love is trade and economy.......

Lets say they come to an agreement with the US, and they allow the US to take out their leadership.

They can effectively install their own gov, liberate the people (which builds their army and their base), rebuild the infrastructure, utilize the natural resources which for China is TONS of coal, commence free trade with SK who are great with tech (which in turn means the US), allow the flow of commerce , enable people to freely travel between the two, open up tourism to a previously closed off country, and create their own foothold in the region.......

NK and SK are use to being separated now for over 50 years, thats fine, but to be able to move freely? Can you imagine the BOON to the region?

a reply to: lambs to lions

I am practically YELLING at people telling them this ..WHAT DO SCOUTS know?
AND they think I WANT it to happen.
CRAZY norms...

I dont think you have been paying attention to how things work now days.

Whens the last time you have seen a country able to counter strike after we launch a pre-emptive?
When's the last time a country has been able to defend itself from attack?

For decades now the only thing that those on the receiving end have been able to do is point their fist at the sky and yell " Oh yea !!! You just come down here and fight a ground war!!! We'll show you!!"....... gut the ground war never happens. They have no enemy to point their guns at.
Troops poised and waiting for battle are just people who do not realize they are dead yet.

I dont believe that the NK generals are dumb. I think they play along with the regime and as long as its all talk and rhetoric, they dont mind enjoying the benefits of playing along....... but when push comes to shove, self preservation will take over. You may be able to hide in your bunker....but that doesnt help you much if sooner or later you need to come out

a reply to: FuggleHop

It will take a month to kill the north without WMD use, accept for EMP cruise missiles.
I STILL think WHATEVER we have in ORBIT could do that, but really it's not a weapon we would use on a lesser combatant and turn our hand.
WE are masters of conventional fights, US troops HAVE no peers really because of training ,money,numbers and devotion to the mission.
WE WILL win.
NO POLITICS to halt the mission THIS time.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

JUST want to get those people in the north the hell out of that mess,first.

originally posted by: SR1TX
The war would be over in 5 hours if it were really on.

A lot has changes since the 50's.

I believe five hours is an exaggeration, but your right it Very likely would be short lived. I'm leaning on a war duration something like the six day war which Israel won.

Something tells me that North Korea's parades and shows of hardware is....... 'paper mache' , yet no doubt there are real and formidable assets hidden, but not many. NK's destruction will come from the sky almost entirely.

I also think President Trumps willingness to meet with Kim and Duarte are 'schmooze' operations... .I don't know the particulars, but I don't think President Trump is caving any, just baiting... Less so with Duarte. Duarte has nothing to offer except Bases. And they have become obsolete.