What is the True Islam…???

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No it specifically says "if the wife is helping her husband fight..."



Specifically says that..


But let's take your interpretation.. so if your wife cheats on you. It is not domestic violence if you cut her hands off???

On what planet??

What the heck are you talking about. A woman jumping into a fight is somehow now cheating? Is she jumping in naked and grabbing his penis to insert it during the fight? I don't even know where to start ....

Why else would it be death worthy to accidentally touch a guy's penis while helping your husband fight that guy, unless it was a play on adultery??

Without that it literally makes zero sense..

With it it only makes Bronze Age goat herder sense, but ....

I already explained it to you. It's an attack on reproduction, something seriously important back then.

Want to know what happens when a married man and a married woman have sex? They both die.

It didn't say "if she ripped off his Johnson , makes him unable to father sons.."

It says if she grabs it, even by accident.....

Ask any boy above 12 or sexually actively girl..

Grabbing a penis in no way stops that person from reproducing in the future...

a reply to: babloyi

Having not attended nor even head of witch burning in this era I can but say ...SO?
(It's against the constitution and a couple I know are really nice)
What does your feelings/opinions ,have to do with targeting violent factions of Islam?
THAT is my point at its core, KILLING jihadists,OFFING HAMASS and slaughtering Al Qaida.
ONCE that is over they are another faith I don't follow and can safely walk amongst western civilization without fear.
Why do you INSIST on ignoring a 7th century mentality that fuels this crap?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: JoshuaCox

It says exactly what I said it does. It deals with a woman intentionally attacking a man's genitals, which can prevent him from having children.

Now, show me the Bible saying a man should beat his wife until she obeys him. You seem unable to do so.

Your argueing semantics...

It's ok to horribly mutilate your wife for touching another mans junk, even if it is to stop her husband from being assaulted...

But it is not ok to smack her for disobeying....

On what planet does that work..

Oh that's right, on the barbaric planet of Christianity...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yeah his logic is pretty odd.
Oh BTW Quran does have punishments for men as well. So his point is invalid.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Having not attended nor even head of witch burning in this era I can but say ...SO?
(It's against the constitution and a couple I know are really nice)
What does your feelings/opinions ,have to do with targeting violent factions of Islam?

Are you sure you're having a conversation with me and not someone else? You keep bringing up things that I never mentioned. My feelings? What have feelings or opinions got to do with anything?

My initial reply to you was when you made the statement "I have yet to see...", so in response to that, I showed you. I tried to help you see entire countries that practice what you have yet to see. A simple google search turned up a woman who had her house burnt down and beaten to death less than 3 weeks ago by christians who accused her of witchcraft. So is it that those things don't exist, or that you're just not looking hard enough? Or that you "turn a blind eye" so to speak?

"Against the constitution"? Which Constitution ? "The Constitution of Africa"? I'm sorry to have to inform you about this, but the whole world isn't made up of the United States. Maybe you should open your eyes and see!

a reply to: babloyi

I'm sorry but as an American I was raised OUTSIDE a caste system traditional or otherwise, HERE we have no lords or priests that dictate values only cash ,WE had to do it with GUNS if we wanted it, THE WORLD is screwed up and I don't give a damn.
I fixed what I could when I was in service,if THEY haven't got the common sense to examine the targeting issue of which I speak of ,WE can't police EVERYTHING, just MOST of everything since the world won't PAY for their own defense.

a reply to: cavtrooper7
Ah...I finally understand. I see you're talking to someone else, except replying to me with stuff that has nothing to do with what I say. Continue talking to them, then! Hope it is a fruitful conversation, even though it appears to be purely in your head!

a reply to: solve

Originally posted by solve
…
Jewish people have mass hallucinations, and Muhammad liked to trip alone.
...

LOL

…And Christians get stoned on the Sabath lol


- JC

a reply to: Christosterone

Originally posted by Christosterone
True Islam is a political ideology masking as a cult.

That was easy.

Any more questions?

-Chris

Yeah…

Is there anything that’s not political…?


- JC

a reply to: intrptr

Originally posted by intrptr
You mean like NATO bombing campaigns that lay waste to whole nations, that kind of 'atrocity'?

Yes, those are atrocities too…no doubt about it…

Originally posted by intrptr
Or is this a spousal abuse and women rights issue? Because all countries have that problem. Fail to see how that connects with any particular religion, most religions abhor that kind of behavior.

The reason I brought up those specific atrocities in Islamic countries, was to tie them back into Islamic beliefs found within the Quran…

For example, if the Quran states clearly that woman don’t have to wear a hijab and that it is their own free will choice to do so, (Which is what the majority of Western Muslim Apologists believe/say) then why is anyone in Middle Eastern and Islamic countries (of whatever faction) even calling for the death penalty, for a woman refusing to wear one…?

Surely the hadiths can’t change a persons belief to that extent…and the Quran on it’s own should be enough, to clear up this issue…one would think so anyway…

But unfortunately this doesn’t appear to be the case…and most debates I’ve seen between Christians, Atheist's and Agnostics vs Muslims, tend to go round in circles or reach a stalemate…

Originally posted by intrptr
I see by your signature that you aren't that average 'joeish'. More like average 'Christianish'? More atrocities have been perped by that religion on the world than any other.

You got a keen sense of observation there…Yes, I guess I’m not quite the average Joe…

And yes, more atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of Christianity, than in any other religion…

But don’t be fooled by my signature…I’m not a Christian…I just believe Jesus taught spiritual universal truth, which was turned into a religion by tptb…


- JC

a reply to: Neith

Us men should listen to woman a lot more than we do…the world would be a better place if we did…IMO



- JC

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Originally posted by JoshuaCox
I bet ATLEAST Half the people you consider "apologists" are atheists pointing out the hypocracy of someone blasting another cultures holy book

Hmmm…The apologists I was referring to in my Op, were “Islamic apologists”…???

Originally posted by Joecroft
And yet, when we listen to the views from Islamic apologists in the west,….
…
…

Originally posted by JoshuaCox
If you want to make that argument about all of the big 3 religions , I bet strangely you wouldn't have many "Muslim apologists" in the mix..it would be all Christian apologists..

I recognize that atrocities took place in the Old Testament, but that’s a separate issue…

I’m just trying to focus on the one Religion right now, and that is Islam.

Originally posted by JoshuaCox
If you want to blast the various factions of Islam who choose to latch onto the violent texts, since they out number the Christians who do the same PRESENTLY. That's fair...

But blasting the religion as a whole if your a christian is mildly mentally disabled.



Your every point fits Christianity as well..

I’m not really trying to “blast” anything…just trying to understand Islam better…


Btw - I’m NOT a Christian…

- JC

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
From my point of view:

All three Abrahamic religions are a deviation from the golden rule using duality divide and conquering techniques when you look at the wording creating power pyramids system where parasitic priest brainwash the public by faith instead of spiritual awareness.

Yeah!!!…Well said…

Funny thing is, there are glimpses of spiritual coded truth within the Quran as well…unfortunately, just like in Christianity…Muslims are viewing them literally, instead of perceiving the deeper spiritual meanings.

I long for the day when all religious people can see the spiritual metaphors found within their respective Holy books, and stop viewing them sooo literally…


- JC

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Joecroft

We often see reports in the media of human rights atrocities being committed in Middle Eastern countries.

…because the average Joe in the street, just wants to know what the True Islam is…

More atrocities have been perped by that religion on the world than any other.

True. The Islamic terrorists killing in the name of Islam today are no different than the Crusades and Inquisition killings in the name of Christianity. Islamic terrorists are just a few millenia behind the times.

a reply to: ClovenSky

Originally posted by ClovenSky
Another poster countered one of my view points a month ago alluding to theories of Z Sitchin. I have been shoving myself down that rabbit hole ever since.

I’m currently down that Rabbit hole myself too…

Originally posted by ClovenSky
Is this a good time to bring up the sumerian tablets for the explanation of all religions?

Under normal circumstances, I’d leap at the chance…but perhaps some other time, on another thread…

Ps - Ever wonder why certain Biblical characters are sooo old…?…If older myths were constantly being interwoven into the biblical texts, then naturally their stories and life spans along with it, would increase…check out Marduk…aka Melchizidek…

Ok, I’ve said too much now; I’m starting to derail my own thread…


- JC

a reply to: babloyi

Originally posted by babloyi
As has been said by others here as well, that is true of all religions. You point out something bad done by one religion, and the response is "but that's not the TRUE religion!"

But calling for the death penalty, for woman refusing to wear a Hijab, is NOT true of all religions…You did say in your previous post though, that is not advocated in Islam.

So why then do we see so many cases, of woman being threatened with the death penalty in Islamic countries.

I know there’s the issue of the hadiths, but surely the Quran on it’s own should make this fairly clear. Islamic apologists in the West, seem to think the Quran is pretty clear on this issue…As you do yourself…

If the Quran is clear on woman having a choice in regards to wearing the hijab, then how can there be any confusion regarding this issue, within any sect of Islam… Why do you think this is happening…?

Originally posted by babloyi
-I don't think anywhere in the world advocates or even suggests execution for not wearing a hijab, and it certainly isn't advocated in Islam. I don't think I know of any Islamic scholar who suggests it either. You were perhaps being hyperbolic, but then, if you're asking a serious question, it's confusing when hyperbole is mixed in.

Ok, I’m guessing you’re a Muslim; Is it true, in your opinion, that the Quran must be read in Arabic to be understood correctly. I mean, do the English translations really do the Quran justice…?


Btw - I wasn’t being hyperbolic, it’s based on a fairly recent case.

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

originally posted by: Joecroft
But calling for the death penalty, for woman refusing to wear a Hijab, is NOT true of all religions…You did say in your previous post though, that is not advocated in Islam.

So why then do we see so many cases, of woman being threatened with the death penalty in Islamic countries.

I know there’s the issue of the hadiths, but surely the Quran on it’s own should make this fairly clear. Islamic apologists in the West, seem to think the Quran is pretty clear on this issue…As you do yourself…

If the Quran is clear on woman having a choice in regards to wearing the hijab, then how can there be any confusion regarding this issue, within any sect of Islam… Why do you think this is happening…?

Who called for the death penalty for not wearing a hijab? As I mentioned in my first post in this thread (I didn't just say it wasn't advocated in Islam), I know of no country with any such law.
Are you talking about some one specific crazy person who claims to be muslim, yelling into the void, and then applying that to all muslims? If so, please do tell who this person is, because I've never heard of them. The link you provided at the end makes absolutely no mention of the death penalty which makes sense, because as I said, no such law exists. Now certainly, it is sad that women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed, but being imprisoned or fined is not the same as the death penalty.

You're confusing the question with stuff about "choice". We all have the choice to do whatever we wish, whether it is sin or do good deeds. That freedom doesn't protect us from the consequences of our actions however.
More appropriate questions may be "Is it sinful according to Islam to not wear a hijab?" or "Is there a punishment proscribed for not wearing hijab?"

Now the Quran speaks about the wives of the Prophet Muhammad, talking about how they should wear the hijab. If one wished to emulate them (generally considered a good thing), they would wear a hijab. Some people however, go further, and take the term used there to refer to all women in general.

originally posted by: Joecroft
Ok, I’m guessing you’re a Muslim; Is it true, in your opinion, that the Quran must be read in Arabic to be understood correctly. I mean, do the English translations really do the Quran justice…?

To be understood absolutely in the sense it was meant to be taken, yes. That doesn't mean that no non-arab can ever become muslim or understand the Quran. It's just that if you're reading a translation of the Quran, that's not the Quran, it is a translation of the Quran. Still a very useful learning exercise, of course. But translating between languages is not a trivial thing. Words don't have one-to-one mappings between languages, there are senses or dimensions that are added or missing. If you're learning in general about Islam, a reasonable translation should work more than well enough. If you're looking to make laws or delve into the details of Islamic jurisprudence, then if you can't read arabic, maybe use multiple different translations of the Quran.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

BOY have YOU missed a MAJOR detail.
American foreign policy is based on secular..bearing on STANIC money acquisition.
IALL has had NOTHING to do with faith ,hell this country has been spiritually ILL since the 30s. Bitching about the ten commandments and a nativity scene at a court house is grandstanding for a comated social movement that is losing miserably.