Freedom Is A Reality

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I guess you missed the bit where I said this

I won't be responding to your ignorance anymore

Buh-bye mr Paulian.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I guess you missed all the facts that pertain to Jesus preached by Paul.

Bye bye Mr anti-christ!

Ever think it is not to you but to the others reading. You couldn't prove I don't follow Jesus and that you do.

Paul is correct and you are wrong, many men go out and are deceivers and deceive and are being deceived about Jesus, and you are one of them.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerryDon79

I guess you missed all the facts that pertain to Jesus preached by Paul.

By by anti-christ!

One last reply to a true Xtian, that is the hate filled ChesterJohn.

No wonder you're like you are. Your god was a great example. He endorses slavery, rape, murder, geonicide and is very vindictive. Sounds like most online Xtians to me.

So you can call me what you like, Mr Paulian. It just shows your true colours and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

You can have the last word, if you want. I know how it makes you feel like you've won something.

a reply to: TerryDon79

hate filled that is funny coming from you. Your very post I reply too is filled with hate not to mention the many other posts you have replied to of mine (not just in this thread but many others as well).

My God is Jesus Christ, he does not care what state (slave, master, teacher, plumber, politician, poor, rich, hungry or full) you are in as long as you come to him through faith on his finished work of the cross. The ransom he was for all mankind which is clearly taught by Jesus and Paul.

Does slavery exist in your country today? The only people who endorse slavery today are Muslims and that in all Muslim ran nations.

Jesus never endorsed rape, murder or genocide in his day. If you are referring to God's command to ISRAEL (only), not Christians 2000 years ago or today, when it came to killing off those in the Land of Canaan you are misplacing the "who" and the "why" it was commanded.

I know of no Christian who endorses any of your so called faults you place on Jesus. Be careful on how you slander God it could come back to hurt you. fortunately that wont send you to hell nor rape, murder or genocide, the only thing that sends anyone o hell is the rejectin of Jesus Christ is their ransom from the debt of sin.

It was you and others who claim Paul taught himself and his ways and not that of Jesus Christ but none of it was true, and you gave no proof of such being true either. I even went to the trouble to count how many times Paul did teach about Jesus and God by the very words he used. You only use you own words which are proven false by the scriptures.

I have not won anything, I count it all loss for the knowledge of Christ and the wisdom of God's preserved word. I only post so that the truth may be seen. It is why when someone claims Paul preached or taught only of himself I compared scriptures and found that the claim was not true. Paul spoke more times about Jesus Christ and God many more times than he did about his own self in the service of Jesus Christ and God.

It is you who has won Terry, You have won, you have won the right to stand before God and say, in the words of "Old Blues Eye's" himself, "I did it my way".

a reply to: TerryDon79

oh yeah, Terry I forgot to count how many times Paul spoke of the Holy Ghost also said to be One with the Word and the Father in 1 John 5:7. Jesus also spoke of the Holy Ghost so this is something they have in common in their teachings

Paul used Holy Ghost 14 times, Holy Spirit 3 times, Spirit of God 8 times, Spirit of the Living God 1 time, Spirit of the Lord 2 times, Spirit (in reference to God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost) 78 times for a total of 106 times Paul taught about the subject of the Spirit and all its uses.

Add that to the 1,544 references of Paul's teaching of Jesus and God the 106 that makes a grand total of 1,650 times Paul taught and spoke of God.

Now compare that to the 628 times Paul speaks of himself (in context it is in the service of God/Jesus/the Spirit) and what you have is a Biblical fact that Paul taught more about Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost/Spirit more than any other subject or himself.

Sorry those who hold to the Scriptures that Paul's letters are inspired are truly following Jesus Christ and God the Father by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

If you like Terry I could take the time to PM you all the verses so you can verify what I speak of is true. But you could do it your self with a simple Bible program like "Power Bible".

Just for those who wish to know I used only the AV Bible which I believe through faith is the preserved word of God for this generation as taught in Psalm 12:6, 7.

"...faith follows the thing heard." (Romans 10:17)

Faith

Definition: “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Heb. 11:1) True faith is not credulity, that is, a readiness to believe something without sound evidence or just because a person wants it to be so. Genuine faith requires basic or fundamental knowledge, acquaintance with evidence, as well as heartfelt appreciation of what that evidence indicates. Thus, although it is impossible to have real faith without accurate knowledge, the Bible says that it is “with the heart” that one exercises faith.—Rom. 10:10.

It's not merely paying lipservice either (just saying "I believe in Jesus").

a reply to: whereislogic

Can you see the complicated difficulty in the version you used for Hebrews 11:1

“Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.” (Heb. 11:1)

. Compare that to the simplicity of the AV

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Also look at your partial rendering of Romans 10:10

the Bible says that it is “with the heart” that one exercises faith.

and compare that to the simplicity of the AV

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believe unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Faith and belief at times are interchangeable but as I challenge all who read the Bible to use the AV and then figure why the different words are used at different times.

For example in Hebrew 11 you see that "by faith" many did things but occasionally you see the term "Through faith". the difference in many cases (and not just of faith) is that "by Faith" there always seems to be an element of man doing something, but in many cases of "through faith" it is a miraculous work of God. just as it is seen clearly in Eph 2:8, 9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also look at the partial verse you used of Romans 10:17

"...faith follows the thing heard."

and compare it to the simple words of the AV

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The version you quoted from uses higher modern English which anyone who has less than a 7th grade reading level may not understand the words being employed in those versions. The AV is simple and anyone with a 3rd to 6th grade reading level can understand the words. Not just that the vast majority of all the 355 plus English versions out there confuse the words of God by making "through" "by" and using more extrapolating words that do nothing but make those who wrote such versions feel more superior over those who find their version difficult to read and understand.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Regarding the AV's translation of Romans 10:17, there are 2 different Greek words used in this text with different meanings that both have been translated to "by" in the AV. Because of that it ends up being conducive for or becomes a part of yet another obscuration and conflation game (other than the one described at Jeremiah 23:27: "...They intend to make my people forget my name") that involves not making people aware that "ex" doesn't mean the same thing as "dia" (through) so the same game (keeping people ignorant and in darkness on purpose) can be played regarding Col.1:15-18 and related verses where those words are used as well by those so inclined to do so:


John 3:36 (NW)

36 The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.

These 2 words used here for "exercises faith" and "disobeys" are antonyms in the Greek (opposites). One is the opposite of the other (note the added "a" if you dare to have a peek at the Greek text linked below, just search for John 3:36).

John 3:36 in the King James Bible (AV/KJB/KJV)
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If the AV/KJV could only be a bit more consistent in translation...this is the word we're talking about which is translated quite differently in this verse (note that there are grammatical variants of the same word):

Romans 2:8 V-PPA-DMP
GRK: ἐριθείας καὶ ἀπειθοῦσι τῇ ἀληθείᾳ
NAS: who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth,
KJV: and do not obey the truth,
INT: self-interest and who disobey the truth

Source: Strong's Greek: 544. ἀπειθέω (apeitheó) -- 14 Occurrences (Biblehub)

It's not like the scholars and translators (including those involved with the AV) don't know it means "disobey(s)" or "do not obey". It's just not convenient for "the doctrines of men" from the churches or religions these people belong to or got their information (education) from to translate it consistently on every occasion, in particular in this case John 3:36 since that one so clearly links those 2 concepts as opposites and contradicts false teachings about the subject of "believing" and/or "having faith in" Jesus (ironic to be reminded of the concept of "self-interest" when I was looking this up).

Evidence for genuine conviction was also involved in the case of those who came to or who were brought to Jesus to be healed. Even if not eyewitnesses personally, they at least had heard about Jesus’ powerful works. Then, on the basis of what they saw or heard, they concluded that Jesus could heal them also. Moreover, they were acquainted with God’s Word and thus were familiar with the miracles performed by the prophets in times past. Upon hearing Jesus, some concluded that he was “The Prophet,” and others that he was “the Christ.” In view of this, it was most fitting for Jesus on occasion to say to those who were healed, “Your faith has made you well.” Had those persons not exercised faith in Jesus, they would not have approached him in the first place and, therefore, would not have received healing for themselves.—Joh 7:40, 41; Mt 9:22; Lu 17:19.

Source: Faith: Insight, Volume 1

a reply to: whereislogic

If you have to go to the so called Koine Greek, a language you do not speak and is dead and has been dead for some time. It is only to change it so you don't like the preserved word of God as found in the AV.

Your JW tactics won't work with me. There is no complete Koine Greek Bible, there is no complete Old Testament in Hebrew.

We do have a complete Bible English for this generation, preserved for us by God Almighty, as found in Ps 12:6, 7 in the AV. No other version you use is complete and preserved of God.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Still nothing much to offer but the arguments of the King James Only movement I see...

The 'lamest' (empty, devoid of reason, devoid of strong arguments) thing to come out of the US bible belt for a long time, at least it's not as violent as the behaviour of those in that area that didn't like some Christians not going along with the nationalism and patriotism that is so popular in the US bible belt among all the Trump-voters during this period of history:

Vote for Christ next time, a better rolemodel. He reminds people of such useful phrases such as "by their fruits you will recognize those men". The fruits are clear in the video above, as clear as Trump's fruits to some people.

The Greek says what it says and so does the KJV at Roman 2:8...

"do not obey", that's what the word means. so the opposite or antonym would have to remind you of that, also in the translation. Especially when the KJV (just another English translation, one of many) acknowledges it by translating it that way at Romans 2:8. Why the change at John 3:36? Why aren't people allowed to be reminded that John 3:36 and at other places in the bible where these words (both antonyms or one of them) are used it's all about the concept of obedience and not the blind and dead faith that is taught alongside it by men* whenever they read "believe" or some variant on that word without mentioning anything about the topic of obeying and works of obedience (or give misinformation about that topic along with it)?

*: theologians mostly

James 2:14,17, King James Bible
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

They just don't like praising His name and making people aware of Psalms 83:18, KJV/AV:

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Or repeating Ephesians 1:3a and similar opening statements from Paul in his letters about "the God... of our Lord Jesus Christ", pretty clear who he's talking about here in the KJV:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,...

James 2:20 (KJV)
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Wilt thou? Not merely repeating or saying it, but really know, as in understand?

James 2:20-23, NW:

But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,” and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Allthough thinking about the topic of violence as an effect of the word "fierce" that is used in the context of 2 Timothy 3:1-8:

But know this, that in the last days... men will be ...haughty,..., not open to any agreement,...fierce,... headstrong,...having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;...always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
...
...these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind,...

It seems to be bubbling just under the surface in some Churches where these teachings of the KJ-Only movement are taught. There are many caveats I could mention about the presentation by the Trinitarian in the Church of KJ-Only adherents below but I've mentioned some of them before. I don't want to repeat myself too often, it's not the main point, he does also mention something about the topic of obedience and believing in Jesus at 6:20, just before things get out of hand in that Church:

"....By their fruits you will recognize those men." (Jesus Christ, the firstborn Son of God, "the firstborn of all creation", "the Faithful Witness" and "the beginning of the creation by God"; Col.1:15, Rev.1:5, 3:14)

King James Only movement (History) - Wikipedia

The history of the King James Version Only (hereafter KJVO) movement can best be described by...
Benjamin G. Wilkinson (1872–1968), a staunch Seventh-day Adventist missionary, theology professor and college president, wrote Our Authorized Bible Vindicated (1930) in which he asserted that some of the new versions of the Bible coming out, came from manuscripts with corruptions introduced into the Septuagint by Origen, and manuscripts with deletions and changes from corrupted Alexandrian text. He criticized Westcott and Hort,...He attacked the Westcott-Hort Greek text and expressed strong opposition to the English Revised Version New Testament (ERV, 1881).[34] He was the first to apply Psalm 12:6–7 to the King James Bible, claiming that the reference is a prooftext for divine preservation of the Scriptures.
...
[going to Wilkinson's page]
Benjamin George Wilkinson (1872–1968) was a Seventh-day Adventist missionary, educator, theologian and considered one of the originators of the King James Only beliefs. [if he was the first as the other wikipedia page suggests wouldn't that make him THE originator? anyway...]
...
Some years later Independent Baptist preacher David Otis Fuller also wrote a book concerning the Textual debate entitled, Which Bible?,[2] which helped to popularize King James Only beliefs although he excluded Wilkinson's Adventist beliefs from his book.

Perhaps a Baptist preacher would not want his baptist flock being made aware of who the originator of these arguments was and what other teachings that theologian taught and which religion he belonged to. What happened to honesty and not using half-truths to keep people in the dark? Not important anymore? Just leave out that part from your argumentation?

2 Timothy 4:3,4 (KJV)

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

a reply to: whereislogic

I am not KJV Only or part of those weirdo's movement.

That is why I say preserved word of God and AV.

First, you quote as set of verses then leave out most of it.

2 Timothy 3:1-8:

But know this, that in the last days... men will be ...haughty,..., not open to any agreement,...fierce,... headstrong,...having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power;...always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
...
...these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind,...

Here is is all preserved and notice the really big difference and the simplicity of the read

2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Secondly, The only accurate knowledge of the truth is found in the preserved word of God.

a reply to: whereislogic

in this response you deny God's power to preserve his word from inaccurate Greek copies of his word and translate it the way he wanted us in this generation to know it.

My God is strong enough to preserve his word as it is said he will do in Ps 12:6, 7

Your god leaves you floundering is a plethora of differing rendition and questionable copies hoping you can do enough to get to heaven.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: whereislogic

I am not KJV Only or part of those weirdo's movement.

Which is why I said:

Still nothing much to offer but the arguments of the King James Only movement I see...

Cause you're being a little predictable and repetitive, you already told me or used that argument before. You're still promoting their arguments whether you feel the need to repetitively distance yourself from them or not.

You also repetitively use this man's argument:

Benjamin G. Wilkinson (1872–1968), a staunch Seventh-day Adventist missionary, theology professor and college president, wrote Our Authorized Bible Vindicated (1930) in which....He was the first to apply Psalm 12:6–7 to the King James Bible, claiming that the reference is a prooftext for divine preservation of the Scriptures.[in or as the King James Bible or Authorized Version and only there]

Source: King James Only movement (History) - Wikipedia (between brackets is mine, wikipedia forgets to make that clear)

You don't seem very interested in the truth taught at Ps.83:18 in the AV. Ephesians 1:3 in the AV apparently is also not deemed worthy of repetition while other arguments are.

Who is Paul talking about at Ephesians 1:3 when he's talking about "the God...of our Lord Jesus Christ"? What is His name according to Exodus 6:3 and Psalms 83:18 for example in the AV? Is there an issue with simply acknowledging what the AV teaches?

Exodus 6:3 (AV/KJV):

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Jeremiah 23:27a (AV):

Which think to cause my people to forget my name...

NASB:

who intend to make My people forget My name...