Religion, Culture, War

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Historically Christianity is the most aggressive religion in the world. Though Islam is a close second.

Agreed. However I think atheism and science are "hard counters" to Christianity. They are very effective at reducing it's societal impact and even pushing it out of the society.

I think Islam is at least as aggressive but much better at by-passing the safeguards built into atheistic culture. Atheism, particularly related to science, has been fighting Christianity for centuries now. It has very little experience or reason to fear Islam because, historically, Islam wasn't trying to abolish it the way Christianity was.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: swedy13
You know Europe is catholic mostly?

I'm commenting on the behaviors more than what people claim to be. This would be things like church attendance or other indicators of how strongly they follow traditional Christian guidelines. When the behavior becomes areligious, I see that as a reasonable indication of atheistic "culture."

I absolutely don't see your point or how you got there?

Yeah, sorry. Like I said, I'm just starting to toy with the idea and am willing to accept it could be completely wrong.

This isn't a post about religion. It's about things that produce culture that are being used as tools of war. It just so happens my example used religion, but it could have worked just as well with political or economic ideologies.

The point I'm trying to make is that sets of information, such as a religion, produce a distinguishable trend in thought and behavior. This produces culture, which affects behavior of everyone in that society, even if they don't follow whatever the governing worldview is. The war is being fought over controlling societal behaviors and how different behavior sets enable different pathways into the future.

Kind of a weird topic and I'm just trying to flesh it out and see if I can make sense of it. Figured getting feedback would be the best way to make myself thing it through more. I probably shouldn't have used religion as my example since the comments are almost entirely about defending believers rather than about what I had intended.

a reply to: swedy13

What about patriotism? All wars except the crusades were fought over national interests. That's 1:?hundreds, why doesn't that factor in your musings?

a reply to: swedy13

Cultures is the same thing. There are many different cultures within each religion too. The difference between fundamentalism or moderatism within a religion can be an example but it isn't just along those lines. Religious cultures can be different by country or continent. African Muslims don't behave like Middle Eastern or European Muslims.

originally posted by: swedy13
Agreed. However I think atheism and science are "hard counters" to Christianity. They are very effective at reducing it's societal impact and even pushing it out of the society.

Atheism works the same with with Islam and any other religion that tries to push its religiosity within a secular country's framework.

I think Islam is at least as aggressive but much better at by-passing the safeguards built into atheistic culture. Atheism, particularly related to science, has been fighting Christianity for centuries now. It has very little experience or reason to fear Islam because, historically, Islam wasn't trying to abolish it the way Christianity was.

That is incorrect. Fundamentalist Islam punishes atheists just as much as other non-Muslim religion. The only reason that the atheists you are most exposed to have lots of experience with Christianity is because most atheists in the west started out as Christians and have first hand experience with the religion. However there are atheists who are ex-Muslim coming from Muslim dominated countries. Granted there are less of them as they come from countries with less religious freedom, but atheists denounce Islam just as much as Christianity when it forces its way past secularism. And just like with other religions, atheists aren't a singular block of beliefs or culture either.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Atheist at its most basic is simply one who does not believe in gods.
There is no requirement of believing that gods do not exist to be atheist.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Atheist at its most basic is simply one who does not believe in gods.
There is no requirement of believing that gods do not exist to be atheist.

Right. So atheists would have the least amount of culture defined by their religious beliefs. This is why atheism thrives in secular societies. They are conducive to each other.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

People who don't believe in gods thrive in secular countries because they are not scared to express their lack of belief.

a reply to: grainofsand

Right. That's what I'm saying.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

We are singing from the same hymn sheet then...see what I did there


I still don't get why the OP linked people who don't believe in gods with people who have faith in Islam though, do you?

a reply to: grainofsand

I feel like he was basing his opinion on cheap politics. Atheists tend to be liberals who tend to defend Muslims, so it looks like to me he lazily lumped them together without understanding any of the arguments about why and when atheists defend Muslims

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh gosh, that is a really clumsy attempt of an argument if that was the OP's intent.
Mildly amusing the more I think about it.

a reply to: grainofsand

There is no shame in ignorance as long as you are willing to admit to it and fix it. Let's wait and see how the OP defends himself. He could have done it for an entirely different reason for all I know.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Krazysh0t

We are singing from the same hymn sheet then...see what I did there

I still don't get why the OP linked people who don't believe in gods with people who have faith in Islam though, do you?

Because right now the two groups seem to be fellow travelers on many issues, many of them on the lefthand side of the political spectrum.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

True, and I'm interested in the thoughts of the OP.
My only concern as always is challenging the atheists have a belief thing. Some do believe there are no gods of course, but others like myself keep an open mind to any new evidence while recognising there is so far nothing verifiable to form a belief that there are.

a reply to: ketsuko

What groups?
I don't believe in gods because of the lack of evidence.
I don't believe there are no gods though as I cannot verify that either.
What group are you imagining that makes me a member of?

a reply to: Peeple

Yeah, that would be another good example. I used religion and I shouldn't have because it hijacked the thread. Anything would work - political, economic, etc...

I used religion because that was the context I conceptualized it in. I'll rework it to be more focused and less inflammatory.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Krazysh0t

True, and I'm interested in the thoughts of the OP.
My only concern as always is challenging the atheists have a belief thing. Some do believe there are no gods of course, but others like myself keep an open mind to any new evidence while recognising there is so far nothing verifiable to form a belief that there are.

Yeah. Even atheism's beliefs can be nuanced. Me. I currently don't believe but like you am open to new evidence if it is provided.

It was stated in Skousen's book The Naked Communist that elimination of religion from public life was one of their goals. A few days ago there was an article saying how 500 churches had closed in London while 432 mosques were built during the same time. Europe and the US have traditionally been Christian nations, it was only in the last century that socialism/Marxism as well as nihilism have succeeded in removing Christianity as the staple of our cultures. With the church came our moral base which has (to those over 50) eroded completely during our lifetimes. What were once dirty words and obscene acts are everyday entertainment now, replaced by newspeak language of the social justice warriors which carries it's own list of offensive words mostly related to race, gender and sexuality that one dare not utter or face their wrath.

Back to the Communist agenda you can read them point by point and see just how successful they have been in infiltrating our educational system, taking over the mass media and programming young people towards becoming "global citizens". Make no mistake, it was the morality of the church that was the basis of our freedoms. We had rules of social order that worked fairly well but once the church lost power our morality went right along with it.

The theories of evolution and global war - I mean climate change have been the tools the socialists continue to use to beat everyone in to line even though they now call themselves progressives. They will still end up Communists, socialism leads to no other end. If assembly line killing is your thing join today, more people were killed in peacetime by Communist regimes than have died in all the wars of history together.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Lol, the commies have had no influence in my lack of belief in gods, just the lack of evidence to support any belief.
I am not part of some fifth column of people who are unconvinced by claims of gods.
Just someone who doesn't believe in things which cannot be verified.

*edit*
I include pixies, elves, dragons, ghosts, demons, souls, etc in the same unverifiable list as gods.
You got a collective label for people who don't believe in dragons?
Damn commies lol