Religion, Culture, War

Not sure which forum this belongs in. I did gen conspiracies because it's a broader concept then religion. Feel free to move it.

I've been toying with this idea for a while, I'm posting to try get the ideas out and see if they make any sense. Also for feedback

The Trump election shocked me out of my stupor, or rather my political and moral apathy.

This last month I've been looking at religion. I feel like this is a new (or revisited) form of warfare, a battle of cultures. Seems like atheism and Islam vs Christianity and Judaism, not in terms of the actual beliefs but in the culture they produce on a broad scale, especially in those who don't strictly adhere to those creeds.

Atheism leaves a void and requires a tremendous amount of work to establish your own identity and values, so it defaults to a lot of cultural mimicry.

Islam shifts the culture into antihuman tendencies regarding women, gays, etc. It also condones lying and violence to further an extremist agenda.

Christianity doesn't condone violence, but tends to revert to censorship. It also seems to produce anti science sentiment.

I'm not that familiar with Judaism.

I'm grouping atheism with Islam simply because it defaults to cultural mimicry for those who don't do their work (such as myself). The real clash seems to be between Islam and Christianity. Also, I'm leaving political ideologies out of this, but there's obviously a huge clash there as well.

It's a multi-pronged attack and on the religious front it's an attempt to undermine values in a way that enables a more extreme political agenda.

EDIT
I'm getting a ton of comments on my choice to add atheism to this list. First, I AM AN ATHEIST. This is not some kind of crazy religious post, it's about things that produce culture.

I think atheism is similar to religion in the way it affects moral judgements and behavior. I also think that it breaks into strict adherents (those who research their own ethical guidelines) and those who claim it but don't really practice it, the same as any other religion or philosophy.

My comparison had nothing to do with the beliefs (or lack thereof), but rather the impact on a society in broad terms. An atheistic society produces a much different culture than a Christian or Islamic one.

The core reasons I lump atheism in with Islam is...
1. Atheism tends to be pro science and find a natural counterpart in dogmatic Christianity. They've been fighting one another for centuries now.
2. Islam is aggressive and condones lying and manipulation to spread. This allows it to slip through the safeguards that protect against more straightforward religions like Christianity.

Again, I'm only talking about the impact a worldview has on a society's culture, not the specific beliefs within that worldview. And I think Europe has made it pretty clear that societies that mean toward atheism are excellent and passing out Christianity but quite susceptible to Islam.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Seems like sarcasm? Like I said, I'm just starting to toy with this idea so my views aren't nuanced enough to pick up on it with 100% confidence.

If it was serious, then it seems to reinforce the point I was making. Conflict between Judaism and Islam seems alive and well.

atheism better get on the right team lol because your comrades if they get into power will behead you!

Christians need to wake up and notice that Judaism isnt and has never been their friend. We should stick the semites together

it's best if we (religious or non religious) find a common ground for all teachings. start with Genesis in the Bible and the Beginning of the Koran. Try to find some similarities and on to the next book.

Doing this would reduce tensions and provide for a strong relationship and support. Once we or they find common ground, we can work on improving science. Once we are done with that, we can migrate to another planet.

I just hope some day the human race corporates in the future to fix problems and go to space. I would like to see that happening when I'm dead viewing the living.

a reply to: swedy13

The overall religious conflicts affecting the world currently are MUCH more complex than you let on here with your OP.

originally posted by: swedy13
The real clash seems to be between Islam and Christianity.

As Albert Pike mentioned in his book where the antichrist will arise after 3 world wars.

He stated that WW3 would be between Islam and Christianity that was started with Gulf War 1, 1991.

Everyone gets judged by their victims. So everyone with blood on their hands via money making wars, goes to hell for eternity.

a reply to: swedy13

Why lump lack of belief in any gods with Islam?
I don't believe in any unverifiable woo, from gods to souls and everything in between.
My position is not related to Islamic faith in any way.
My position is not a belief either, I do not believe there are no gods, just that there is no evidence to draw me towards believing there are.

a reply to: swedy13

Religious fervor is used the same as Nationalistic pride. Defending the flag and all, same as defending 'our' God.

People go nuts when their bits of colored cloth and religion are threatened.

Yeah, what's with grouping atheists with beleivers?

Maybe the athiests should get together and have their own version of the dark ages, where they go around wiping out entire groups of people who aren't interested in thinking for themselves.
Every religion seems to go on a crusade sooner or later, why not give the athiests a chance?

Oh, right- the world doesn't value free thinkers, it values breeders.

a reply to: lordcomac

Probably that classic lame arsed attempt by religious people to equate lack of belief in an unverifiable claim as belief that the unverifiable claim is false.
I make no claims that gods do not exist, I merely assert that there is zero evidence to draw me towards a belief that they do.
Massive difference.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Absolutely. I'm just trying to flesh out a relatively new concept. Simplistic at best, maybe flat out wrong.

originally posted by: lordcomac
Yeah, what's with grouping atheists with beleivers?

Because Atheists are frequently found defending Islam, obnoxiously coming to it's rescue when they feel that Muslims and/or their culture are being slighted.

It's simply Critical Theory in practice. They are in favor of anything that destabilizes western culture, specifically Christianity.

a reply to: swedy13

But you are doing each belief system a GRAVE injustice by blanket labeling each one's beliefs and tendencies. There are cults and denominations of every major and minor religion in the world. Each believing in its own dogma that can pit it in contest with other religions or even other denominations and cults within their religion (ex: Sunni/Shia conflict).

It's easy to look at a religion and make blanket statements about its contribution to society, but one must also step back and remember that there are billions of people within each of these religions. There is no logical way the short little blurbs you used to describe each belief system are accurate across each religion's full spectrum.

a reply to: grainofsand

I mentioned it in the original post, but I probably should have expanded on it a but.

I think atheism is similar to religion in the way it affects moral judgements and behavior. I also think that it breaks into strict adherents (those who research their own ethical guidelines) and those who claim it but don't really practice it, the same as any other religion or philosophy.

My comparison had nothing to do with the beliefs (or lack thereof), but rather the impact on a society in broad terms. An atheistic society produces a much different culture than a Christian or Islamic one.

The core reasons I lump atheism in with Islam is...
1. Atheism tends to be pro science and find a natural counterpart in dogmatic Christianity. They've been fighting one another for centuries now.
2. Islam is aggressive and condones lying and manipulation to spread. This allows it to slip through the safeguards that protect against more straightforward religions like Christianity.

Again, I'm only talking about the impact a worldview has on a society's culture, not the specific beliefs within that worldview. And I think Europe has made it pretty clear that societies that mean toward atheism are excellent and passing out Christianity but quite susceptible to Islam.

IMO, it's more like christians vs. islam vs. jews vs. atheists. I'm not seeing any real partnerships.
NOW between the Jewish State (still called zionists?) and the USA we're talking a completely codependent partnership.
Or something like that, Israel seems to many times control the tune to which the USA dances.

I believe you're correct regards cultural warfare and religion.
Why must religions condemn non-believers? This is a particular problem in countries/states with official religions. The state of Israel (& Palestine) and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan come immediately to mind.
I ponder if religions were invented for any other purpose than to cause conflict, reduce population, control minds.

Certainly the Eastern religions (hindu,taoist, buddist, sikkh, sufi, confuciainism, etc.) have had their own cultural conflicts, but we hear no news of that, and must seek historical references to uncover these issues.
I guess we haven't heard much about Hindus and Buddists lobbing bombs at each other, although both have suffered due to other group's terrorist tactics. (India bombing)

Condemned by all religions as a non-believer, I'm not concerned about one religion over another, but the concept that it's somehow "right" to eliminate all those who do not follow the same belief system, nullifies legitimacy IMO.

ganjoa

originally posted by: swedy13
The core reasons I lump atheism in with Islam is...
1. Atheism tends to be pro science and find a natural counterpart in dogmatic Christianity. They've been fighting one another for centuries now.
2. Islam is aggressive and condones lying and manipulation to spread. This allows it to slip through the safeguards that protect against more straightforward religions like Christianity.

Historically Christianity is the most aggressive religion in the world. Though Islam is a close second.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: swedy13

But you are doing each belief system a GRAVE injustice by blanket labeling each one's beliefs and tendencies. There are cults and denominations of every major and minor religion in the world. Each believing in its own dogma that can pit it in contest with other religions or even other denominations and cults within their religion (ex: Sunni/Shia conflict).

It's easy to look at a religion and make blanket statements about its contribution to society, but one must also step back and remember that there are billions of people within each of these religions. There is no logical way the short little blurbs you used to describe each belief system are accurate across each religion's full spectrum.

Not really. I'm not making any statements about what those worldviews espouse to believe. I'm commenting on the cultures they produce, which are well documented and easy to point out. And those cultures are most relevant when looking at it in terms of the billions that claim adherence but don't actually practice in a strict sense. Those are the ones subtly affected by the culture produced by these worldviews and what my post is about.

a reply to: swedy13

You know Europe is catholic mostly? Or in your simpler line of thought christian? Also sunnis and shiites are both islamic but are at war with eachother?

I bet atheists and every religious person from Buddhist to Hindu disagree if they talk about god, but the Vatican also is pursuing sciency stuff since the medieval days.

I absolutely don't see your point or how you got there?

originally posted by: ganjoa
IMO, it's more like christians vs. islam vs. jews vs. atheists. I'm not seeing any real partnerships.

I don't think there are partnerships. I do think that the culture produced by each tends to contribute to societal values, and that certain combinations work better together. Atheism is very good and pushing out Christianity. Islam is very good and sneaking into an atheistic society. But I don't think there is any collusion between the two, just incidental cooperation.

I ponder if religions were invented for any other purpose than to cause conflict, reduce population, control minds.

Thank you. This is exactly what my post is about. I added "warfare" to the title because I think there is a huge religious/philosophical battle going on right now. I don't mean in the sense of demons and angels, all that religious nonsense. I mean a battle where religions and even atheism are being used for their cultural effects. It's a very real war, but being fought within the minds of people, particularly people that don't strictly adhere to anything particular set of values. Those are the ones most susceptible to being gently nudged in the general direction of whichever ideology is in control of their society.

Certainly the Eastern religions (hindu,taoist, buddist, sikkh, sufi, confuciainism, etc.) have had their own cultural conflicts

Yes, none of these seem to be on the main stage at the moment. I didn't mention them because I don't know enough (I probably shouldn't have mentioned Judaism either).