Transgender woman wins international weightlifting title amid controversy over fairness

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

You would think someone who was transgender would have a common sense perspective. Even though they may feel female, they were born with the physical attributes and muscular strength of a male! They should realize they would be at an unfair advantage in the first place! They should have some respect for the other female competitors and not place themselves in such a situation. This is as much as cheating as when a same sex athlete is using performance enhancing drugs.

I agree, this is simply allowing someone to take advantage of their hidden natural physical strength. They made a conscience decision to change their physical appearance, along with that they need to face the fact that there will be some negative hardships. It's simply the cards the person was dealt with at birth. There are others who were born with handicaps that are not on equal footing even though they were born as the same sex!

And that's the problem; nobody seems to want to talk about it. Everybody is firmly in two unrealistic camps. In one, you have the bigot rednecks who misgender and refuse to acknowledge the athletes by their gender. In the other, you have "allies" who refuse to acknowledge there just might be some differences worth discussing with the physiological changes a transsexual goes through and how to adjust for it.

If bigots can't acknowledge she's a woman and hard-SJW folk can't acknowledge that she's not just like other women, no conductive conversation will be had.

a reply to: Boadicea

I wonder if the lack of long term transitional information has something to do with transgenders inordinately high suicide rate?

originally posted by: Bobaganoosh
a reply to: Boadicea

I wonder if the lack of long term transitional information has something to do with transgenders inordinately high suicide rate?

So sad to think, but so true. That may very well be the saddest factor of all.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Ridiculous.

Sex and gender might be two different things*, but everyone should agree, then, that men and women were divided in sports based on sex, not gender.

So so what if she changed her gender - she did not change her sex. The IOC needs to get their heads out of the sand and have a rational discussion about how to deal with this.



* I very much agree sex and gender are different things - grammatically, for instance, there have been at least four genders for the longest time: femininum, masculinum, neutrum, utrum. They way I see it 'sex' is an inherent quality, while 'gender' is a quality put on something or someone from without, which means that there is no set constraints on to whom which gender apply.

a reply to: Abysha

If bigots can't acknowledge she's a woman and hard-SJW folk can't acknowledge that she's not just like other women, no conductive conversation will be had.

That sums it up pretty well. I would only add that sometimes it seems like that's exactly what some folks want.

We know that biologically and medically speaking, "gender" is not as cut and dried as once thought. We also know what havoc hormones can play on the mind, heart, body and soul. And we know that while there have always been folks who did not fit the accepted gender mode, that current environmental toxins -- synthetic hormones and other endocrine-disruptors -- are wreaking further havoc on our bodies and genders.

We must get past the extreme ideological positions and address the very real and practical issues. But sometimes -- often times! -- I feel like there are those who like and want this divide and just want to perpetuate and/or escalate that division. And in the process, real people are hurting and suffering while others abuse and exploit their plight for their own purposes.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

20 years ago there were female atheletes fighting to be able to compete in high school wrestling and football against boys. Now men who Identify as female want to compete against women.

I don't know where the joke is comparing those two situations, but there seems to be one in there somewhere.

Most of the females that compete in pro weightlifting are taking enough test that they can't seriously call themselves women anyway. Can kind of see why they're annoyed by it but at the same time it's slightly ridiculous.

a reply to: Abysha

While the PC seem to change the rules to fit their agenda why not let the NFL play in the Pop Warner Super Bowl. Hey, a win is a win

originally posted by: JHumm

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
Simple fix to this mess. They should have their own category to compete in. That goes with any sport.

I agree, but then they would say there isn't enough to make a new catagory. ....but there is enough to change the rules for EVERYONE else?

The category could be based on your weight, muscle/fat ratio, height, body-mass index, maximum weight lifted. Boxers have flyweight and heavyweight rankings.

Too bad we cant make men have babies, that would fix everything

a reply to: Abysha

n one, you have the bigot rednecks who misgender and refuse to acknowledge the athletes by their gender.

Your kidding right? Just because someone modifies themselves does not in any way shape or form change their gender. By that logic, if I put on a lion mask, what am I now? Am I a human male with a lion mask, or a real lion?

A few cuts and snips and drugs do not a woman make... We are born as our sex and our gender. End of story. Its called nature.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

a reply to: Boadicea


The average male is about 3 times stronger than a woman in the lower body and about 5 times stronger in the upper body. A pot bellied man whom has never worked out can more than likely walk into a gym and outlift the average woman even if they have lifted for years.

a reply to: jtrenthacker

Segregation is the wrong answer.

We do not see women going into men's sports and winning championships.

Perhaps the people who want things to be fair for them (trans) should consider the women they stomp into the ground in competition. But they won't.

How about you can't play if you are a modified female.

originally posted by: jkm1864
a reply to: Boadicea


The average male is about 3 times stronger than a woman in the lower body and about 5 times stronger in the upper body. A pot bellied man whom has never worked out can more than likely walk into a gym and outlift the average woman even if they have lifted for years.

Wow. I had no idea the difference was that great. Thinking about it, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But that's a huge difference -- and a huge advantage in competition sports of strength and endurance.

We obviously need more information on how transitional treatment -- i.e., female hormones -- affect strength, etc., but it would seem that the potential will always be greater for the male physique. So the strongest male-to-female athlete will always be stronger (perhaps much stronger) than the strongest natural born female athlete.

Someone needs to get creative and figure out another option for these athletes...

This whole argument is the new bathroom wars. No one can agree, makes for a perfect division.

a reply to: seasonal

If Trans people want to compete in sport, I'm all for it as long as it's fair. We already have "segregation" in sports. Men and women have there own divisions. We have things like the Special Olympics and Paralympic Games. If Trans people want to compete in weightlifting, wrestling or whatever, than it needs to be against other Trans for an even playing field.

a reply to: jkm1864

I did have another thought... I didn't want to add it to my previous response in case you'd already read it... but is weightlifting segregated into divisions like wrestling or boxing? With "light" weight and "middle" weight, etc?

Perhaps something like that is the answer to make the competition levels fair.

I really don't know though. I'm not a fan of this stuff to begin with, so my understanding is lacking.

All they need to do to solve this is put contestants into one of two groups based on chromosomes.

If you have XX sex chromosomes you are a female.

If you have XY sex chromosomes you are a male.

Simple really. Or is nature bigoted and racist now?

a reply to: DrStevenBrule

What about XXY?

Oops.