Transgender woman wins international weightlifting title amid controversy over fairness

Laurel Hubbard made history this weekend by becoming the first transgender female to win an international weightlifting title for New Zealand. But her victory in the over-90-kilogram division, in which she lifted a combined total of 268 kilograms (roughly 590 pounds) to best silver medalist Iuniarra Sipaia of Samoa by 19 kilograms (roughly 42 pounds), was not without controversy. Despite a year’s worth of blood tests showing Hubbard had no more testosterone running through her veins than any of the other female weightlifters competing in the Australian International this weekend, some of those Hubbard beat questioned the fairness of the competition. “If I was in that category I wouldn’t feel like I was in an equal situation,” two-time Olympian Deborah Acason, who competes at the 75-kilogram level, told New Zealand news site Stuff. “I just feel that if it’s not even, why are we doing the sport?”

www.washingtonpost.com... utm_term=.db71d023dd04


Is anyone surprised that the MAN was stronger than the females and won? I think it is ridiculous and needs to stop. How on Earth can this be remotely fair?

Simple fix to this mess. They should have their own category to compete in. That goes with any sport.

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
Simple fix to this mess. They should have their own category to compete in. That goes with any sport.

I agree, but then they would say there isn't enough to make a new catagory. ....but there is enough to change the rules for EVERYONE else?

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

In this FUBAR PC world maybe it is time to eliminate male/ female roles in sporting competitions, just have 1 event for all.

I have lived too long.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Really bad news for Women. It will destroy sports for them.

The difference are not just muscular; they are skeletal. Skeleton and muscle both figure in performance. May be, even differences in Adrenalin and other chemical that we may not even yet know about come into play. There are still so many parts of a transgender woman that remain male, even if not on the surface.

I was gob smacked reading some of the comments on that article. They are actually insane extremists of the worst fascist kind:

LGBTQ.1 rights are common sense. The laws were long overdue and are only the first step in establishing equality.

Even if that means denying or restricting the rights of others

to give those oppressed a fair chance

This comment says it all in terms of why it is wrong to force this on women in sport:

IOC guidelines allow any male who can prove his testosterone levels are 10 nmol/L or below for one year duration to compete in the women’s division. "Normal" male testosterone levels are between 9 and 38 nmol/L. "Normal" female levels are between 0.52 and 2.4 nmol/L. So, no, it is not true that Hubbard has "no more testosterone running through her veins than any of the other female weightlifters competing." The IOC regulations, which were based on politics, not science, allow males with testosterone levels in the lower range of normal to compete in the women's division, even though that range is many times the normal level of females. So not only does Hubbard have a lifetime of training and competing in a male body, Hubbard has much higher testosterone levels than any of the females competing. This is foolishness.

I'm not against transgender people. Some transgender people I have met and seen in media are very beautiful in mind and body. Just to clarify.

originally posted by: JHumm

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
Simple fix to this mess. They should have their own category to compete in. That goes with any sport.

I agree, but then they would say there isn't enough to make a new catagory. ....but there is enough to change the rules for EVERYONE else?

And MY response would be, "Tough sh*t."

Sorry, don't want to say this bit. Each to their own.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Of course it's not fair, and everyone knows it, hence the need to pretend like testosterone is the only relevant factor:

Despite a year’s worth of blood tests showing Hubbard had no more testosterone running through her veins than any of the other female weightlifters competing...

Testosterone alone does not take into account the greater lung capacity, musculature, upper body strength, etc., that gives the natural born male body physical strength and endurance that the natural born female body lacks. This isn't competition... this is domination.

And that's exactly what the narcissistic autogynephile wants and demands. Unless and until we stop pretending that all transgenders are the same, much less that all male-to-female transgenders are the same as natural born females, it will only get worse.

If so many people insist that these people can identify themselves any way they feel, they better just suck it up an accept the consequences.
You can't have it both ways.

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

You would think someone who was transgender would have a common sense perspective. Even though they may feel female, they were born with the physical attributes and muscular strength of a male! They should realize they would be at an unfair advantage in the first place! They should have some respect for the other female competitors and not place themselves in such a situation. This is as much as cheating as when a same sex athlete is using performance enhancing drugs.

I agree, this is simply allowing someone to take advantage of their hidden natural physical strength. They made a conscience decision to change their physical appearance, along with that they need to face the fact that there will be some negative hardships. It's simply the cards the person was dealt with at birth. There are others who were born with handicaps that are not on equal footing even though they were born as the same sex!

I said it before and I will say it again: I identify as a roast beef sammich and this whole pc identity disaster can bite me.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: iTruthSeeker

Of course it's not fair, and everyone knows it, hence the need to pretend like testosterone is the only relevant factor:

Despite a year’s worth of blood tests showing Hubbard had no more testosterone running through her veins than any of the other female weightlifters competing...

Testosterone alone does not take into account the greater lung capacity, musculature, upper body strength, etc., that gives the natural born male body physical strength and endurance that the natural born female body lacks. This isn't competition... this is domination.

And that's exactly what the narcissistic autogynephile wants and demands. Unless and until we stop pretending that all transgenders are the same, much less that all male-to-female transgenders are the same as natural born females, it will only get worse.

I think this could really be solved by setting a required amount of time post-transition, at the proper hormone levels. She transitioned "in her mid-30's"... she's still kinda in her mid-30's. I think there's a good debate there about if that's simply not long enough.

Because all those things you listed (lung capacity, musculature, etc) does change but not right away. Maybe that's the solution? Time limits? Certain sports viewed differently (for example, roller derby has trans women and it seems to work)?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
If so many people insist that these people can identify themselves any way they feel, they better just suck it up an accept the consequences.
You can't have it both ways.

And there you have it. Newtons 3rd law of Physics nicely explained in today's society.

a reply to: Abysha

that's racist.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Abysha

that's racist.

You're racist.


Harrumph.

a reply to: Abysha

I think this could really be solved by setting a required amount of time post-transition, at the proper hormone levels. She transitioned "in her mid-30's"... she's still kinda in her mid-30's. I think there's a good debate there about if that's simply not long enough.

Because all those things you listed (lung capacity, musculature, etc) does change but not right away. Maybe that's the solution? Time limits? Certain sports viewed differently (for example, roller derby has trans women and it seems to work)?

That sounds like a really good place to start!

I tried to look into this once -- i.e., the long-term changes after beginning transition treatments -- and I didn't find much. I don't know if I was using the wrong search words or if it just hasn't been researched enough or maybe it's just too soon to study yet... I don't know.

I think there is a happy medium to be found, and being able to quantify such things and to maintain the levelest playing field possible for everyone is a good place to start. This is all so new, of course there will be growing pains and lessons to learn along the way.

But that's true of everything, eh?

nm dump topic

a reply to: iTruthSeeker

So Men can best Woman at lifting weights, who would have thought?

Snip, snap, and add as many body parts as you like but the basic biological make up of the person will remain the same.

Not trying to take anything away from people who are transgender but in this instance the unfair advantage where sports like weight lifting are concerned is obvious, at least in one direction.

Sorry, I said this in another thread..you compete with the people who have/had the same junk as you when you were born, unless we are talking chess or tiddlywinks.
I'm all for people being free to live and not be bothered but professional sports is where I draw a line..IMHO