Ayaan Hirsi Ali: 'Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace'

a reply to: enlightenedservant

blah blah blah, is your response? The OP asked you a question, if you want the respect of having a discussion, how about answering the post, rather then deflect? or...are you afraid you'll prove him right? but that's part of the discussion? to give and take the middle ground.

Use your damn brains brother and wake up.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

BTW, here is another example which disputes your claim about me not pointing out that there are Muslims who want "progress"...

Liberal Muslim Woman Speaks Up on Why She Voted For Trump.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

All three Abrahamic religions do need modernization more or less since they are all dualistically flawed dogmas.

And when a Duality curse have enough time to manifest thru humanity it creates genocide and suffering.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sarah Haider and Maajid Nawaz and others could have helped with reformation but Islam do not need reformation people like you say. If Muslim do not fix the problems in Islam and own it then non Muslim will choose violence instead of peace with Muslim since Muslim will not have done enough to make them feel Muslim are their allies.

Simple duality separation to justify insane behavior.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Did Mohammed call for Muslims to kill the unbelievers, which includes Christians, Jewish people, Atheists, and anyone who does not believe and bow to Islam, yes, or no?

No.

According to the Quran Muslims are never allowed to instigate disharmony. They are allowed to defend themselves.

If Christians or Jews attack and oppress Muslims which was very prevalent in Mohammad's time then Muslims are enstructed to kill those who are trying to kill them.

According to the Quran, Muslims are only allowed to act in self-defense. They must also accept an offer of peace when it is requested.

Your opinion of Islam comes from extremists, who currently have established themselves as the ruling class and who have gained many self-righteous followers.

The Quran does not permit the things that radical Islam teaches.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
Islam's founder was one of the most wicked people in history. Compare Muhammad to Jesus, tell me who you would rather follow. It's not even a question, not by any rational, civilized person.

Mohammed was oppressed, schemed against and had many attempts made on his life by both the Jews and the Catholics.

Why did they want him dead?

Because he disagreed with the church. The same church ideology that crucified Mohammad's self proclaimed Messiah, Jesus Christ.

You condemn what you do not understand.

You post videos from Radical Islamics. I could post equally disturbing videos from Christian and Jewish radicals.

Mohammed was not a pedophile. His wife was at least 15, probably 16 when married, and 17 or 18 when they consummated the marriage.

Mohammed did not violate his own laws. The age of 8 comes from 1 single source that contradicts itself. The source is wrong and blasphemy to the prophet Mohammed.

The age of Aisha.
www.muslim.org...

a reply to: glend

Where did I write we must deny people of Islam?... What i wrote is that it needs to be reformed.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Riiight...

...
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234 :
Narrated by Aisha

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
...

www.sahih-bukhari.com...

Here is proof the above is the truth and not what you are trying to claim...

Sahih al-Bukhari
Sahih al-Bukhari is a collection of hadith compiled by Imam Muhammad al-Bukhari (d. 256 AH/870 AD) (rahimahullah). His collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be the most authentic collection of reports of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (
). It contains over 7500 hadith (with repetitions) in 97 books. The translation provided here is by Dr. M. Muhsin Khan.
...

sunnah.com...

a reply to: Isurrender73

More lies heh?...

Here is a list of not only wives of Mohammed but concubines (sexual slaves) as well.

List of Muhammad's Wives and Concubines

Even the number I gave was wrong when you count the wives he divorced and concubines.

EMAIL

A 232 Year History of our fight against Islam & why true history is no longer taught in our public schools...

When Thomas Jefferson saw there was no negotiating with Muslims, he formed what is now the Marines (sea going soldiers). These Marines were attached to U. S. Merchant vessels. When the Muslims attacked U.S. merchant vessels they were repulsed by armed soldiers, but there is more.

The Marines followed the Muslims back to their villages and killed every man, woman, and child in the village.

It didn't take long for the Muslims to leave U.S. Merchant vessels alone.

English and French merchant vessels started running up our flag when entering the Mediterranean to secure safe travel.

Why the Marine Hymn contains the verse, "To the Shores of Tripoli ".

This is very interesting and a must read piece of our history. It points out where we may be heading.

Most Americans are unaware of the fact that over two hundred years ago the United States had declared war on Islam, and Thomas Jefferson led the charge!

At the height of the 18th century, Muslim pirates (the "Barbary Pirates") were the terror of the Mediterranean and a large area of the North Atlantic .

They attacked every ship in sight, and held the crews for exorbitant ransoms. Those taken hostage were subjected to barbaric treatment and wrote heart-breaking letters home, begging their governments and families to pay whatever their Mohammedan captors demanded.

These extortionists of the high seas represented the North African Islamic nations of Tripoli, Tunis , Morocco , and Algiers - collectively referred to as the Barbary Coast - and presented a dangerous and unprovoked threat to the new American Republic .

Before the Revolutionary War, U.S. merchant ships had been under the protection of Great Britain . When the U.S. declared its independence and entered into war, the ships of the United States were protected by France.

However, once the war was won, America had to protect its own fleets.

Thus, the birth of the U.S. Navy. Beginning in 1784, 17 years before he would become president, Thomas Jefferson became America's Minister to France. That same year, the U.S. Congress sought to appease its Muslim adversaries by following in the footsteps of European nations who paid bribes to the Barbary States rather than engaging them in war.

In July of 1785, Algerian pirates captured American ships, and the Dye of Algiers demanded an unheard-of ransom of $60,000. It was a plain and simple case of extortion, and Thomas Jefferson was vehemently opposed to any further payments.

Instead, he proposed to Congress the formation of a coalition of allied nations who together could force the Islamic states into peace. A disinterested Congress decided to pay the ransom.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli's ambassador to Great Britain to ask by what right his nation attacked American ships and enslaved American citizens, and why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran that all nations who would not acknowledge their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

Despite this stunning admission of premeditated violence on non-Muslim nations, as well as the objections of many notable American leaders, including George Washington, who warned that caving in was both wrong and would only further embolden the enemy, for the following fifteen years, the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages.

The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to over 20 percent of the United States government annual revenues in 1800.

Jefferson was disgusted. Shortly after his being sworn in as the third President of the United States in 1801, the Pasha of Tripoli sent him a note demanding the immediate payment of $225,000 plus $25,000 a year for every year forthcoming.

That changed everything.

Jefferson let the Pasha know, in no uncertain terms, what he could do with his demand. The Pasha responded by cutting down the flagpole at the American consulate and declared war on the United States.

Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers immediately followed suit.

Jefferson, until now, had been against America raising a naval force for anything beyond coastal defense, but, having watched his nation be cowed by Islamic thuggery for long enough, decided that it was finally time to meet force with force.

He dispatched a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean and taught the Muslim nations of the Barbary Coast a lesson he hoped they would never forget. Congress authorized Jefferson to empower U.S. ships to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli and to "cause to be done all other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war would justify".

When Algiers and Tunis, who were both accustomed to American cowardice and acquiescence, saw the newly independent United States had both the will and the right to strike back, they quickly abandoned their allegiance to Tripoli.

The war with Tripoli lasted for four more years, and raged up again in 1815. The bravery of the U.S. Marine Corps in these wars led to the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn, and they would forever be known as "leathernecks" for the leather collars of their uniforms, designed to prevent their heads from being cut off by the Muslim scimitars when boarding enemy ships.

Islam, and what its Barbary followers justified doing in the name of their prophet and their god, disturbed Jefferson quite deeply.

America had a tradition of religious tolerance. In fact Jefferson, himself, had co-authored the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, but fundamentalist Islam was like no other religion the world had ever seen.

A religion based on supremacy, whose holy book not only condoned but mandated violence against unbelievers, was unacceptable to him. His greatest fear was that someday this brand of Islam would return and pose an even greater threat to the United States .This should concern every non Muslim. That Muslims have brought about women-only classes and swimming times in America at taxpayer-funded universities and public pools; that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have been banned from serving on juries where Muslim defendants are being judged; Piggy banks and Porky Pig tissue dispensers have been banned from workplaces because they offend Islamist sensibilities; ice cream has been discontinued at certain Burger King locations because the picture on the wrapper looks similar to the Arabic script for Allah; public schools are pulling pork from their menus; on and on and on and on..

It's death by a thousand cuts, or inch-by-inch as some refer to it, and most Americans have no idea that this battle is being waged every day across the World. By not fighting back, by allowing groups to obfuscate what is really happening, and not insisting that the Islamists adapt to our culture, countries are cutting there own throat with a politically correct knife.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Mohammed oppressed?...

Aisha herself related the following which is written in the Hadith.

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man called her name: Where is so-and-so? She said: I I asked: What is the matter with you? She said: I did a new act. She said: The man took her and beheaded her. She said: I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she knew that she would be killed.

Grade : Hasan (Al-Albani)

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2671
In-book reference : Book 15, Hadith 195
English translation : Book 14, Hadith 2665
...

sunnah.com...

The invasion, and genocide that occurred at Banu Qurayza is estimated that Muhammed agreed to the beheading of 600-900 men and children who had reached puberty after they had surrendered. Muhammed stated that the beheadings was like the judgement of Allah. As you can see by the statement that Aisha made, one woman was also beheaded.

The Genocide of Banu Qurayza and proof that Muhammed/Muhammad was a raider.

The Quran
33:26-27 Al Ahzab (The allies) - الأحزاب

...

Pickthall
And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
Sahih Intl
And He brought down those who supported them among the People of the Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party.
Yusuf Ali
And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
...
Pickthall
And He caused you to inherit their land and their houses and their wealth, and land ye have not trodden. Allah is ever Able to do all things.
Sahih Intl
And He caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah, over all things, competent.
Yusuf Ali
And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.
...

quranx.com...

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, so he said to his followers, 'Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage, and has not done so yet, should not accompany me; nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof; nor a man who has sheep or shecamels and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.' So, the prophet carried out the expedition and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the `Asr prayer, he said to the sun, 'O sun! You are under Allah's Order and I am under Allah's Order O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.' It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), 'Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), 'The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, "You have committed the theft.' Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet (ﷺ) added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us."

quranx.com...

Here is another fact, Muslims who decide to leave the Islamic faith are supposed to be beheaded if they don't repent and continue to bow to Islam.

1)
Chapter: Ruling on one who apostatizes
(1)
باب الْحُكْمِ فِيمَنِ ارْتَدَّ
Abu Burdah said:
A man who turned back from Islam was brought to Abu Musa. He invited him to repent for twenty days or about so. Muadh then came and invited him (to embrace Islam) but he refused. So he was beheaded.
...

sunnah.com...

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Did Mohammed call for Muslims to kill the unbelievers, which includes Christians, Jewish people, Atheists, and anyone who does not believe and bow to Islam, yes, or no?

No.

According to the Quran Muslims are never allowed to instigate disharmony. They are allowed to defend themselves.

If Christians or Jews attack and oppress Muslims which was very prevalent in Mohammad's time then Muslims are enstructed to kill those who are trying to kill them.

According to the Quran, Muslims are only allowed to act in self-defense. They must also accept an offer of peace when it is requested.

Your opinion of Islam comes from extremists, who currently have established themselves as the ruling class and who have gained many self-righteous followers.

The Quran does not permit the things that radical Islam teaches.

Yet polls show significant numbers within many majority muslim population embrace radical beliefs. Tens if not Hundreds of millions of muslims with radical views. I hear those doing the polls are even afraid of making future polls, because since the truth does not seem to paint a good light, it seems their own safety is at stake(as happens whenever any criticism seems to be brought up). Yet we're told all of these individuals were raised with moderate views, so it is amazing that significant numbers would believe things against the teachings they've been given without reason for doing so.

This is without talk of Taqiya where many will lie about extreme radical beliefs merely to protect the faith. IIRC, such polls have also happened in western countries.

To me lashings are an extreme radical thing, do you claim the Quran says nothing about such as punishment? Would one who contests that these are barbaric and should never be applied, not be contradicting the quran and thus blaspheming regards its divine authority? If someone does not believe the Quran is of divine origin, that person is not a muslim, no?

a reply to: Xenogears

Everything wrong with Islam originates in the Hadiths which are a perversion of Islam.

Muslims following the Hadiths would be like the majority of Christians following Westboro Baptist interpretation of the New Testament or like Jews following the Talmud.

Unfortunately the majority of Muslims are following this perverse ideology in full or in part. But this ideology is not the ideology presented in the Quran.

Allah is merciful and forgiving and his followers are encouraged to follow the mercy of God according to the Quran.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

This is from the Hadiths. The Hadiths are full of lies and perversion of the Quran.

The Hadiths stand in opposition to the Quran in the same way the Talmud is in opposition to the Old Testament.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

This comes from a Hadith that contradicts itself.

You are Quoting something written over 1000 years ago as if everything written is the truth. The Quran is the truth. The Hadiths are a perversion of the Quran.

Several of the Hadiths may have even been written by those who opposed Mohammed and wish to slander his character.

What you are Quoting is no better than someone quoting the National Inquirer as the truth 1000 years from now.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The verse in the Quran is no different than the Jews inheriting Isreal from the Canaanites, and God's judgment against the Pharoh and Egypt.

The land of the Canaanites was given to Isreal because of the corruption of the Canaanites in the same way God gave Mohammed the land of those who were oppressing and enslaving the people who would become the Muslims.

The Hadiths teach an aggressive view of Islam. The Quran teaches self-defense claiming that those who are defending themselves will have God's favor over their oppressors.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Isurrender73

More lies heh?...

Here is a list of not only wives of Mohammed but concubines (sexual slaves) as well.

List of Muhammad's Wives and Concubines

Even the number I gave was wrong when you count the wives he divorced and concubines.

This was a common practice of wealthy males of all religions. Much of the history of Mohammed was written as tabloid material but for some reason is considered the truth, even when it directly contradicts the Quran.

It is common today for tabloids and even major news networks to publish stories that slander and present falsehood.

Not everything written about Mohammed should be considered factual. Both the Jews and Catholics could be responsible for much of the tabloid material written about Mohammed.

There is much contradiction found in the historical accounts of Mohammed and Islam. I believe Mohammad was a good man and prophet of God who called Jesus Christ his Messiah.

Anything written about him to the contrary I take as tabloid news written by his oppressors in an attempt to defame him.

Yes he had several wifes, a common practice at the time. But he taught women equality and one wife being the most righteous way of living.

*popcorn*

It's so much fun watching Christians and Muslims trying to explain why the other is bad.

*popcorn*

By no means is it the root behavior of brainwashed delusion in both.

*soda*

It's equally fun watching you strawman, spin and dilute every possible context to further your arguments, because you wouldn't need to lie if it were true right?

*popcorn*

a reply to: 727Sky

One of the best reads I ever engaged in. Thanks for that.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Xenogears

Everything wrong with Islam originates in the Hadiths which are a perversion of Islam.

Muslims following the Hadiths would be like the majority of Christians following Westboro Baptist interpretation of the New Testament or like Jews following the Talmud.

Unfortunately the majority of Muslims are following this perverse ideology in full or in part. But this ideology is not the ideology presented in the Quran.

Allah is merciful and forgiving and his followers are encouraged to follow the mercy of God according to the Quran.

I keep reading this thread and I keep refining my opinion because there is some truth in what everyone has posted for the most part. The EU is suffering terribly from the influx of illiterate third world refugees while in America we have a more insidious attack against our foundational government.

The threat that the Muslim religion represents to the United States is from Shariah Islam and the violent jihad propagated by a criminal class of Muslims known as the Muslim Brotherhood or the "Ikhwan mafia." This secretive organization dominates most established Muslim groups and mosques in America while exploiting, manipulating and even victimizing law-abiding Muslim Americans.

Only a small share of the worlds 1.3 billion Muslims are part of this dangerous group. In America this group hides behind our laws and is known as CAIR, a Muslim Brotherhood front group that has infiltrated every level of our government.