Why do we need to antagonize the Chinese when the Chinese aren't patrolling our coast or airspace?

originally posted by: makemap

THE Chinese government continues to carry out mass killings of innocent people in order to obtain their organs for transplants, a damning new report reveals..

Fake news. China was in fact killing cultists who had killed a 21 year old girl, a college student at fast food joint.
Killing 21 year old girls does not exactly make cultists innocent.

a reply to: Miracula2

You are all over the place with this OP. Most of your responses do not even address your own topic. And then you admit you do no even know what is going on near the Spratly Islands, where these artificial ones have been built.

Wiki
In 1987, the People's Republic of China installed a small military structure on Fiery Cross Reef on the pretext[citation needed] to build an oceanic observation station and install a tide gauge for the Global Sea Level Observing System.[15] After a deadly skirmish with the Vietnamese Navy, China installed some military structures on more reefs in the vicinity of the Philippines and Vietnamese occupied islands and this led to escalating tensions between these countries and China over the status and "ownership" of reefs.

See there, China already has set precedence for violence with their neighbors over there aggressive island claims.

The following is a NYTimes article with a very in depth photo analysis of this illegal island building. Because you need an update on what they are doing.

The new islands allow China to harness a portion of the sea for its own use that has been relatively out of reach until now. Although there are significant fisheries and possible large oil and gas reserves in the South China Sea, China’s efforts serve more to fortify its territorial claims than to help it extract natural resources, said Mira Rapp-Hooper, formerly the director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington research group.Though too small to support large military units, the islands will enable sustained Chinese air and sea patrols of the area. The United States has reported spotting Chinese mobile artillery vehicles in the region, and the islands could allow China to exercise more control over fishing in the region.


Several reefs have been destroyed outright to serve as a foundation for new islands, and the process also causes extensive damage to the surrounding marine ecosystem. Frank Muller-Karger, professor of biological oceanography at the University of South Florida, said sediment “can wash back into the sea, forming plumes that can smother marine life and could be laced with heavy metals, oil and other chemicals from the ships and shore facilities being built.” Such plumes threaten the biologically diverse reefs throughout the Spratlys, which Dr. Muller-Karger said may have trouble surviving in sediment-laden water.

The Chinese will lose these islands after we reunite the Koreas.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Salander

It's supporting our allies. No one in the region has the ability to stand up to their bullying, which has been pretty serious in the last 10 years, and none of them will ally with each other without a buffer. Hell, even Vietnam is turning to the US at this point because of China.

They like our money, not our moral guidance. I've never been a big fan of wasting tax dollars on foreign countries.

a reply to: Salander

And we shouldn't be pushing our moral guidance on them. It's their country after all.

A lot of those tax dollars that we spend come back to us from the host nation. In 2011, Japan agreed to pay us just under $2B for basing troops there, and they've agreed to spend $12B to build a new base on Okinawa.

Korea pays about $800M a year, which is about half the cost of our troops. That pays for the Korean workers, services, and construction. They're also paying $10.8B to build a new base further South, away from the DMZ.

A lot of breaks are tossed our way too, when troops are based in another country. Be it tax breaks, or utilities and other considerations. That saves a lot of those tax dollars.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Likely everything you say is true, but I've become most cynical regarding DoD and really do wonder whether "defense" is even a concern anymore. To me, Ike's worst nightmares have come true.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Zaphod58

, but I've become most cynical regarding DoD and really do wonder whether "defense" is even a concern anymore.

It's about wasting valuable US tax dollars. Building on reefs near their coast isn't putting the US on the defense, especially when they are assisting the US keeping North Korea in check by stopping coal imports.

Gotta play Rambo, and waste hard earned American tax dollars which don't grow on trees, they are earned by the hard work of American people.

It reminds me of a line from the movie Red October, when the guy translates what the Russian captain played by Sean Connery, thinks of the American submarine captain, he says "The captain seems to think you're some sort of cowboy". It a show of respect when the Russian captain thinks you're a cowboy. It's an entire other matter when you think of yourself as a cowboy, and need to demonstrate to the world you are a cowboy. And that's what this waste of tax dollars is about.

a reply to: Miracula2

Building on reefs near their coast

Its nowhere near their coast! They are over 500 miles away! That is part of the whole point. Can you just bother to even do a little bit of reading instead of just passing off your opinions as fact on a situation you admit having nearly zero information or understanding of??

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Salander

And we shouldn't be pushing our moral guidance on them. It's their country after all.

A lot of those tax dollars that we spend come back to us from the host nation. In 2011, Japan agreed to pay us just under $2B for basing troops there, and they've agreed to spend $12B to build a new base on Okinawa.

Korea pays about $800M a year, which is about half the cost of our troops. That pays for the Korean workers, services, and construction. They're also paying $10.8B to build a new base further South, away from the DMZ.

A lot of breaks are tossed our way too, when troops are based in another country. Be it tax breaks, or utilities and other considerations. That saves a lot of those tax dollars.

The problem is not you or we. The problem is the warmongers and conquerors in the current military or western world who has agendas. Once they are done with the other powers, don't expect to be safe. Canada is already being threaten by US Military might already. It was all part of thee plan. Majority of the Canadian companies are dead. Only thing left is small businesses and the few surviving ones such as Canadian Tire.

Majority of the Americans are dumb down, so they have to join the military no matter how they live. Specific target is white or city goers now. This is nothing like the Cold War Era. When WW2 was finished most of US army doesn't even want another war. Even the WW2 vets know this. If you don't know who the true evil is, you are just playing their game. They knew attacking the allies of WW2 is totally against what America stands. There would have been a revolution if they attack the WW2 allies after the war. They just waited for majority of the vets to leave so they can takeover from there. WW3 may not happen now, but you can see all the brainwashing media today.

US would be entirely safe if it actually ended its old faction wars.
There is a reason why North Korea still stands. Has it occur to you the US has never suggested leaving Korea if they end North Korea with China's help?

North Korean war should have ended a long time ago. It is just too bad American Marines doesn't want to form an alliance with China back then and ended the Korean war together just to target Soviet Union after.

a reply to: makemap

First off, there's no way that China would have agreed to an alliance with the US at the end of the Korean War. The Nationalists, who were friendly to the US were out of power, and the Communist government was in charge. When Mao came in to power, he didn't want to coexist with the Western world. He saw Capitalism as the enemy. That's one of the reasons that the Chinese and Russian relations soured so quickly and so badly. Chinese-Soviet relations didn't start to deteriorate until after Korea ended. China saw the Soviet attempt to reduce tensions with the West as a betrayal of Communist beliefs.

Second, it's always funny how the US is solely to blame for these problems. China has been after this territory since the mineral deposits were found under the area. There are massive oil and natural gas resources under the South China Sea, and everyone wants them. China is strong enough to bully everyone else in the area, and push them out to take them.

originally posted by: makemap

It was all part of thee plan. Majority of the Canadian companies are dead. Only thing left is small businesses and the few surviving ones such as Canadian Tire.


.

Yes, but the Canadians don't deserve to have their own companies. Neither do the employees. I visited a Canadian women. Her parents were still using drugs.

Adults. Parents with the responsibility to demonstrate responsibility, concern for your child's welfare, their success and achievement in life. No self control, and a desire for illegal substance use that doesn't bring happiness nor bring you into contact with a social network of people worth knowing.

It's no wonder they've lost their companies.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Miracula2

Building on reefs near their coast

Its nowhere near their coast! They are over 500 miles away! ?

It seems to me that building on a reef by a nation like China that is helping the US keep North Korea in check by stopping coal imports from North Korea as China did within the last month, isn't being too aggressive.

Now if they hijacked a sandbar in the Bahamas in built on it. Then the US should patrol that if it were to happen. The Bahamas is so much closer and their are so many sandbars there.

By the way, the Native American Indians want their land back. And they are planning on patrolling your house with horse, big feather hats and bows and arrows.

the officers of many chinese flagged ships are in the chinese military they map the harbors and coast of the US all the time.

www.cna.org...

originally posted by: Miracula2
By the way, the Native American Indians want their land back. And they are planning on patrolling your house with horse, big feather hats and bows and arrows.

Thats fine and dandy. Guess they will just have to repeat history when the white man comes out with his rifle to clear the border.

Is China going to have the balls to use their rifle so to speak to clear us out of international waters?? North Korea can mange on its own just fine without coal exports, and has been able to manage just fine at their citizens expense for half a century+ . I don't want to hear jack squat about this alleged effort to scale back NK. The only acceptable solution is to remove the leadership and reunite the Koreas. Either China can do it, or we will over the course of the next decade.

Either way, if China wants to challenge our effort they will lose their islands to our coalition.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: makemap

First off, there's no way that China would have agreed to an alliance with the US at the end of the Korean War. The Nationalists, who were friendly to the US were out of power, and the Communist government was in charge. When Mao came in to power, he didn't want to coexist with the Western world. He saw Capitalism as the enemy. That's one of the reasons that the Chinese and Russian relations soured so quickly and so badly. Chinese-Soviet relations didn't start to deteriorate until after Korea ended. China saw the Soviet attempt to reduce tensions with the West as a betrayal of Communist beliefs.

Second, it's always funny how the US is solely to blame for these problems. China has been after this territory since the mineral deposits were found under the area. There are massive oil and natural gas resources under the South China Sea, and everyone wants them. China is strong enough to bully everyone else in the area, and push them out to take them.

It was planned, so American can invade China and destroy even more cultures of China, even wipe out history.

#1. America never supported the Nationalist first place, if they did, they would been dropping weapons for them.
#2. Quit bringing the word Capitalism because it doesn't exist in the past nor will it be force on other countries.
#3. Chinese are not Soviets. Totally different race. Just because they called it Communism doesn't mean it is, just like America calling itself Republic or North Korea calling itself Communist. This is basically like US telling Aliens to go Capitalist.
#4. Why does US support other Dictators than other countries who is willingly to help form an alliance? It is planned and certain people in US just wants to takeover the world who doesn't follow their corrupt system.
#5. When China is up against Soviet, after Soviet got caught red handed. US could have quickly change alliance help ended the war and unite Korea with China. US could have done an alliance with China during that time also by leaving Korea same time and wait at Japan to show Chinese who the real enemy is first place. I mean look at Vietnam, they are doing fine. Vietnam-Chinese war is because Viet expected Soviet to invade China and help them(that is one of the causes).
#6 Mao was only doing Communism with the Chinese, not the other way around on other races. America on the hands wants Capitalism enforced for all races. This is why majority of the untouched countries see it as a threat.

The reason why China doesn't have a civil war now is because America is pissing off the entire Asian race by having military all over the place especially causing false flag just like Middle East.

www.theage.com.au...

a reply to: makemap

Rewrite history much?

1. The US didn't drop weapons to the Nationalists, because they were too busy sending food to Berlin at the time that was going on. They didn't have the capability to be in both places at once, in the numbers required. It was either give what little support they could to the Nationalists, or let Berlin starve.
2. Because you don't consider it Capitalism doesn't mean you get to rewrite whatever you want.
3. No kidding the Chinese aren't the Soviets. But they began as Communists allied with, and following the Soviets lead. When the Soviets chose to go a different way than the Chinese wanted to go, their relations soured. You should try reading some history.
4. It's called proxy war. It keeps the major powers from fighting each other.
5. Both China and the Soviet Union were Communist. Just because China turned on the Soviets doesn't mean the US was going to support them. The Soviet Union was working to reduce tensions with the US, and had better relations than China did. Why would the US suddenly turn to the nation that has worse relations with them, against the one that wanted to improve things with them?
6. The US was doing what they thought would stop the spread of Capitalism, just as the Soviet Union was trying to spread Communism to where they could.

The US is pissing off the entire Asian race huh? So now China is the only Asian race? Because the US has great relations with Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and rapidly improving relations with Vietnam.

A little reading goes a long way. You should try reading real history instead of rewriting it to what you think should have happened.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

Guess they will just have to repeat history when the white man comes out with his rifle to clear the border. .

Damn that sounds like Mormon doctrine. White is right.

originally posted by: makemap

This is why majority of the untouched countries see it as a threat.

Look at how the Iraq thing went down.

1. US troops always support the underdog.

2. Saddams troops knocked babies out of incubators in Kuwait.

3. So, lets invade.

4. Iran takes us hostages. Pretty evil violation of international law by Iran.

5. Iran-Iraq war. Iran is the bully kicking sand in Saddams face after the hostage thing. Iraq was the underdog.

6. Did the US help the underdog in the Iran-Iraq war?

7. No.

8. Capitalism doesn't operate according morals or ethics. It does whatever it wants. Change colors like a chameleon in its application of ethics.

a reply to: Miracula2

Why shouldnt we antogonize them when they antogonized us first? I cant believe how many American jobs they stole. And now their building fake islands for there missles?! Um excuse me, but America first!

originally posted by: FuggleHop
a reply to: Miracula2

Why shouldnt we antogonize them when they antogonized us first? I cant believe how many American jobs they stole. And now their building fake islands for there missles?! Um excuse me, but America first!

Why don't you travel to China and see how much antagonize they actually have compare to what US does? US is exactly like North Korea when they antagonize other nations. The only thing stopping America from being like Nazi Germany is democracy and certain laws because they are afraid of the guns and civilian unity.

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: makemap

This is why majority of the untouched countries see it as a threat.

Look at how the Iraq thing went down.

1. US troops always support the underdog.

2. Saddams troops knocked babies out of incubators in Kuwait.

3. So, lets invade.

4. Iran takes us hostages. Pretty evil violation of international law by Iran.

5. Iran-Iraq war. Iran is the bully kicking sand in Saddams face after the hostage thing. Iraq was the underdog.

6. Did the US help the underdog in the Iran-Iraq war?

7. No.

8. Capitalism doesn't operate according morals or ethics. It does whatever it wants. Change colors like a chameleon in its application of ethics.

International law my ass. Don't you think the US doesn't do the same, but with CIA since Cold War? Just because a country that is isolated jailing people, it doesn't mean it can't happen the other way around. In fact it is worst the other way around because they can free roam and hijack secretly.