OP/ED: The Final Solution

Originally posted by Kidfinger
I thought all forms of life had some type of DNA structure for replication. How do Prions propigate without it? You may have given a link earlier, but I have read so much on the subject now that I cant remember half of what I read

...know what you mean. ...prions propagate by touching another protein of a similar structure, and making it morph into another prion, on contact.

Cool huh? Kind of a sci-fi thing, but real life.


.

Stanley Prusiner announced his prion discovery in 1982 - then got dissed in the USA until 1997, when he won a Nobel Prize for finding prions. There are links on this site for more information.

Prusiner's Wins Nobel Prize for Prion Discovery


.

Soficrow, I admire your determination to uncover the lies regarding this stuff.

I just read this article which says there will soon be RFID chips inserted into every large animal and soon for all animals.

This is so utterly lame to try to slip in the RFID microchip agenda when a simple removal of the lies regarding animals being fed rendered-animals for food would suffice. There is a secrecy cloak over this Mad Cow issue and now, here come microchips to save us. If one believes a conspiracy in regard to CJD, microchips will not help, except perhaps to provide cleaner beef to the elites.

Isn't it true that something like 20% of alzheimers cases are actually prion diseases? I thought I read that somewhere. Effectively, it seems like a lot of us will develop "Alzheimers" much earlier in life and in large numbers.

I better get all my thinking done early in life. Maybe leave notes to myself too. :^)

Originally posted by smallpeeps

I just read this article which says there will soon be RFID chips inserted into every large animal and soon for all animals.

This is so utterly lame ...microchips will not help, except perhaps to provide cleaner beef to the elites.

Hmmm. Good point.

Isn't it true that something like 20% of alzheimers cases are actually prion diseases? I thought I read that somewhere. Effectively, it seems like a lot of us will develop "Alzheimers" much earlier in life and in large numbers.

I better get all my thinking done early in life. Maybe leave notes to myself too. :^)

Most epidemic modern diseases involve misfolded proteins, including Alzheimers - and misfolded proteins are prions, by definition. ....The big question is whether or not all prions have the ability to become infectious...

Some very important info:

Chemical and Drug Industries Create Prions


Also, did you see these?

"Mad Cow" Disease Uses Immune System to Spread in Body

Prions Found in All Organs

"Mad Cow" Spreading in Deer and Elk

Background Information About Prions



Ps. Thanks for the encouragement...

I believe that America hasa forever practiced a type of racial cleansing. The use to call it the military drafting process. People check out the truth behind our government. See if you can discover who it was that got drafted in to WW2. It wasn't the wealthy and never will be. Our governmet has been corrupt for ever, people are just afraid to see and admit the truth.

but no substantive evidence

[edit on 7-1-2006 by Silk]

[edit on 7-1-2006 by Silk]

Sofi
Great post! Open discussion of the issue is essential.

I've considered several of the different arguments proposed by population control enthusiasts, and not one of them is workable, sensible, or ethical. Besides, nature has a built in mechanism for population control, and it works. What's worse, natural correction or Nazi death camps? If half the population starves to death a millions years from now, problem solved, progress realized, future secured. The need for human involvement is non-existent. This is about as prideful and foolish as taking it upon oneself to lift the sun to its zenith.

The problem is a result of our lifestyle, and has nothing to do with how many of us there are. The earth could support hundreds of billions of individuals if it was properly used - there is absolutely NO factual evidence to the contrary, simply a mound of rhetorical droppings (much like my own, but dyametrically opposed).

One needs only look at the earth from space at night to see just what I mean. The 'bright spots' of civilization are few and far between. The number of unoccupied acres in America alone is more cushion than we need to protect against a population explosion. Don't even get me started on the feasibility of living underwater, underground, and in space. Solving the population problem is expensive, but killing a whole bunch of people is not what I'd call a solution.

We have the technological and societal means to reduce our impact significantly in every way imaginable (energy, food, water, acreage, so on) and they have not been implemented. Why? Because some folks want to depopulate whether it's necessary or not, to insure their lifestyle and excercise their xenophobia, and the rest of the supporters of various eugenics programs are just ignorant as to the actual efficacy of such ventures.

My favorite send-up of eugenics was done by a British transvestite comedian, Eddy Izzard. He jokes about what would have happened had Hitler's plan succeeded. Nazis in just a few generations would be so stupid and oafish and inbred, they would have become the very thing they hated. This is of course true, just look at the tattered remnants of the American and English aristocracy, respectively...

I take comfort in the fact that life will probably change a great deal, and at the same time remain almost exactly the same. Man is such a bumbling moron, he can't do anything right. Give it time, and whatever engine of destruction gets built will go haywire and destroy its creator. Give everything time and the balance re-asserts itself.

Don't wait for time to run out before learning to support yourself using the abundant resources provided by nature and technology. Self-sufficiency is the best possible investment anyone can ever make, if you ask me. If you're not dependent on the favors of the state, the state ceases to have any power over you.

Originally posted by badgirl1010

I believe that America hasa forever practiced a type of racial cleansing. The use to call it the military drafting process. People check out the truth behind our government. See if you can discover who it was that got drafted in to WW2. It wasn't the wealthy and never will be. Our governmet has been corrupt for ever, people are just afraid to see and admit the truth.

your wrong here. in wwII, everyone was in uniform, or if they couldnt pass the physical, they were in some kind of supportive role. that's why we had women dominating the workforce for the first time in US history. this argument might be valid for the vietnam era, but not wwII.

Originally posted by radagast
poison the water ? I drink soda and coffee and beer

You'll die from a nasty degenerative disease that way. Right on!

I for one only need to worry about the nasty things they are doing with our crops, fruit and veggies, no mad cow disease for me! I'm a .vegetarian!

[edit on 9-1-2006 by Ishes]

Originally posted by radagast
Its scary stuff, the overall global trends are all bad, and I don't see any hope of reversing them soon......pollution, oil spills, war, famine, disease, nuc-yah-ler proliferation , Aids, terrorism, climate changes.....ok, now I'm depressed....

mother earth may well just shake us off her back like an unwanted flea.....

God, I wish it were that easy.
The problem that most people don't understand is that we have contaminated every living organism and vertebrae on this planet with both prions and synthetic chemicals.
No 'ice age' or 40 day flood is going to 'erase' the damage that has already been caused. Whatever happens next is going to be a direct result of what WE have caused here, there is no government or individual group of people to blame. The 'fault' belongs to all of us.

soficrow
"Should the human population be controlled to support the system, or should the system be changed to support life? "

Since the human population presently has no ability to make changes to the system, it is only logical that the system controls the human population.
Although the process of human elimination through poisoning is probably the worst possible way to accomplish this, somebody or something MUST control the population. There is no other choice unless you believe that we must reproduce ourselves into cannibals, then extinction.

Instead of killing people at a certain age, or when they are no longer able to provide their own food... wouldn't it be much easier and 'humane' to castrate the majority of the male population at birth?

I mean, I would much rather know that my child will be castrated at birth instead of knowing that he will have to eat me and his mother when he gets hungry later on in life. I think the children would agree to this also.

Sorry to be so short and simple,
this is funking sick.

I guess I'm going to try to eat Steve's Johnson first

dick

Good post sub...

I read an article the other day (trying to find it)
It stated that a large garbage pile is accumulating off of Hawaii, that occassionally drifts into the island... (part of a pacific current "swirl")

this garbage is supposed to be huge, and goes all the way down the water column... (basically a big garbage island)

they mentioned that the plastics in this pile are starting to breakdown in size, to become quite attractive food for fishes...

all fine and great, except it kills the fishes, and makes things that eat the fishes sick...

they also mentioned that there are NO MORE ORGANIC FISH...
they are all contaminated by plastics and toxins of OUR CREATION...

Nope, we dont affect things at all...Humansmother earth

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
The problem is a result of our lifestyle, and has nothing to do with how many of us there are. The earth could support hundreds of billions of individuals if it was properly used - there is absolutely NO factual evidence to the contrary, simply a mound of rhetorical droppings (much like my own, but dyametrically opposed).

Conversly our entire Solar System could probably support just as many with our current lifestyle, but the fact is our lifestyle isn't going to change overnight. Remember what brought about this lifestyle? Technology. Is the answer to ban technology? Gawd no. Instead of cutting budgets for Science and Engineering we should be increasing it year after year. We are on the verge of a new era IF we survive that is. Cheap and plentiful energy from Fusion power plants, molecular manufacturing providing all our needs and wants, in the process cutting out almost ALL the fat in our society like the need to manufactur and transport said manufactured goods thousands of miles so they can be used up in a year and thrown in a dump. With MNT we would just toss the used up product in a Disassembler whose primary byproduct is saids products base molecular components which can then be used to create more products all at the cost of Energy which as I said before will come from Fusion reactors which only byproduct is I believe Gamma Rays which are easily dealt with.

One needs only look at the earth from space at night to see just what I mean. The 'bright spots' of civilization are few and far between. The number of unoccupied acres in America alone is more cushion than we need to protect against a population explosion. Don't even get me started on the feasibility of living underwater, underground, and in space. Solving the population problem is expensive, but killing a whole bunch of people is not what I'd call a solution.

Exactly. Though with our current technology alot of those uninhabited spots are actually occupied by agriculture. Half of all Arable land is currently being occupied by farms. Also there is another point to be made and that is continued economic growth actually has the effect of lowering birthrates due to the fact that it's expensive to raise children in the Urban areas of the planet. By 2050 it's estimated that over 70% of all people on the planet will be living in Urban Megacities like Mexico and New York. We need to find a way to reduce the impact of those cities and there are many people working on such a task right now, infact I will be one of those shortly as when I get my degree in Nanomechanical Engineering I want to work for a Non-Profit Orginisation dedicated to bringing Nanotechnological advances to Urban area's without the redtape like "Patents" or "Brand Names" that makes things so expensive in this day and age.

We have the technological and societal means to reduce our impact significantly in every way imaginable (energy, food, water, acreage, so on) and they have not been implemented. Why?

Because you need to convince people to invest in such things. Who are these people you need to convince? SHAREHOLDERS! Right now there are groups out there buying up stakes in companies just for the sole purpose to get those companies to clean up their acts. The transition will not happen over night, and it may not even happen for the current day companies as they WILL be supplanted by smaller more agile competitors sooner or later. Just look at the history of the DOW. Can you answer me this one question. Which is the only company on the DOW to have been on there since it's inception? Speculate as to why is it still there.

Because some folks want to depopulate whether it's necessary or not, to insure their lifestyle and excercise their xenophobia, and the rest of the supporters of various eugenics programs are just ignorant as to the actual efficacy of such ventures.

Economic development has proven to be quite a force in birthrate changes. The baby boom has been hypothesised to be caused by many soldiers coming home to no jobs and poverty. What's the only thing to do when you're dirt poor? Pick up chicks and copulate. I know I've lived in an impoverished area while growing up and many of my friends grew up in Wealthfare homes.

I take comfort in the fact that life will probably change a great deal, and at the same time remain almost exactly the same.

Really now, what makes you so sure of this? If you were born in 1900 and were somehow taken into the presant how would you react act all the "Brown" and "Mud" coloured people that makes up a cosmopolitan city in this day and age? Read the Axis of Time trilogy by John Birmingham. It's about a 21st Century Task force fighting the war on terror who due to a mix up with a wormhole experiment gets sent back in time to just the moment before the first major sea battle between the Japanese and the Americans during WW2. Socially the west is very progressive.

Don't wait for time to run out before learning to support yourself using the abundant resources provided by nature and technology. Self-sufficiency is the best possible investment anyone can ever make, if you ask me. If you're not dependent on the favors of the state, the state ceases to have any power over you.

Decentralized power grids would do this as would Molecular Manufacturing. These things don't develop in a vacuum though which is why I've decided to take an active role in the development of such technologies.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Remember what brought about this lifestyle? Technology. Is the answer to ban technology? Gawd no. Instead of cutting budgets for Science and Engineering we should be increasing it year after year. We are on the verge of a new era IF we survive that is. Cheap and plentiful energy from Fusion power plants, molecular manufacturing providing all our needs and wants, in the process cutting out almost ALL the fat in our society like the need to manufactur and transport said manufactured goods thousands of miles so they can be used up in a year and thrown in a dump. With MNT we would just toss the used up product in a Disassembler whose primary byproduct is saids products base molecular components which can then be used to create more products all at the cost of Energy which as I said before will come from Fusion reactors which only byproduct is I believe Gamma Rays which are easily dealt with.

Getting a little side-tracked here, but I gotta point out, while technology is all well and good, we gotta be careful and responsible with it. Many things could go wrong, and in our quest for better and better tech, we may unleash a Pandora's Box that might end up our undoing. Even now the Pandora's Box called Nuclear Weapons constantly threaten us with Armageddon.

Now, I'm not a Luddite, but I do have concerns about technology going haywire. I read an article a while back that discusses it better than I could. I've bookmarked it coz it was a very good article. Here, check it out:

Why the future doesn't need us.

Originally posted by soficrow
...prions propagate by touching another protein of a similar structure, and making it morph into another prion, on contact.

Cool huh? Kind of a sci-fi thing, but real life.

Way cool, like Borg nanites. WE WILL ASSIMILATE YOU

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

sardion
Good reply, and thanks for the heads up.

Is the answer to ban technology? Gawd no. Instead of cutting budgets for Science and Engineering we should be increasing it year after year. We are on the verge of a new era IF we survive that is.

It really does feel like we've never been closer to realizing an egalitarian technological utopia, but it all depends on how reasonable everyone's willing to be. We could just as easily wind up in a techno-Hell, if we make bad decisions along the way.

With MNT we would just toss the used up product in a Disassembler whose primary byproduct is saids products base molecular components which can then be used to create more products all at the cost of Energy which as I said before will come from Fusion reactors which only byproduct is I believe Gamma Rays which are easily dealt with.

Great stuff, I'd never looked into the field at all till you mentioned it. I love the idea of disassembling, but I always figured they'd use chemicals, such as is done with gold recovery and what not. The concept of using tiny machines never crossed my mind. It's a very cool idea.

I really hope I see landfills recycled in my lifetime. It's so handy that we kept such a great quantity of garbage.

Though with our current technology alot of those uninhabited spots are actually occupied by agriculture. Half of all Arable land is currently being occupied by farms.

Well, that's not really a big issue when you consider how much more efficiently we could be using that land, and of course urban hydroponics can largely eliminate the need for arable land in the first place. I'd love to see human waste removal systems/sewer lines synergized with above and below ground hydroponics systems for the production of food, fuel, fiber, and other resources.

Also there is another point to be made and that is continued economic growth actually has the effect of lowering birthrates due to the fact that it's expensive to raise children in the Urban areas of the planet. By 2050 it's estimated that over 70% of all people on the planet will be living in Urban Megacities like Mexico and New York.

That's an excellent point, but for me personally, a disturbing prediction. I'm not sure cities of such size are the way to live. I think people work better in small groups - there's less stress because the spectre of competition is smaller.

It seems like in the city, everyone you meet is a potential enemy, and in the country, everyone you meet is a potential ally. Maybe that's just my perception, but it seems to be a fact of life that human psychology is rooted in tribe/pack dynamics. Of course that dynamic would change significantly, for the better, if resources were plentiful and distributed evenly, but what are the chances of that happening?

We need to find a way to reduce the impact of those cities and there are many people working on such a task right now, infact I will be one of those shortly as when I get my degree in Nanomechanical Engineering I want to work for a Non-Profit Orginisation dedicated to bringing Nanotechnological advances to Urban area's without the redtape like "Patents" or "Brand Names" that makes things so expensive in this day and age.

Sounds like you're part of the solution to the problems, that's meritous.

Just be careful with those matter-eaters, don't accidentally release them and kill us all, k?

I can also forsee a Matrix-type future where the wealthy breed an underclass of humans to be enslaved, slaughtered, and harvested for their resources. Not pretty. Let's hope reason and compasson prevail over expediency and greed.



What're the odds?

Just look at the history of the DOW. Can you answer me this one question. Which is the only company on the DOW to have been on there since it's inception? Speculate as to why is it still there.

GE, and no speculation is necessary. Their business practices were so cut-throat, and their wanton disregard for the safety of workers, consumers, and the people living in the fallout zones around their production and materials research facilities so flagrant, they made money hand over fist through reckless innovation that's cost America countless lives and the purity of some of its most precious natural resources.

I live in one of their PCB dumps. They 'filtered' their sludge through local topsoil and called it remediated. Then, they trucked the soil out, knowing it was deadly, and sold it to people who didn't know any better to be used in gardens.

It used to be, you could feed your family on fish from local rivers - big, fat trout in the rivers and pan fish in all the ponds. Used to be you didn't need a soil inspector to determine if you could plant a few rows or corn or squash. What better way to make people dependent on the favors of the state, than to remove their ability to feed themselves, and take away their fresh water? :shk:

If you were born in 1900 and were somehow taken into the presant how would you react act all the "Brown" and "Mud" coloured people that makes up a cosmopolitan city in this day and age?

Racism wasn't necessarily a fact of life in history either. Individuals have always had the capacity to befriend, fall in love with, and respect those of different races and creeds.

National policy is a counter-indicator of citizen sentiment as often as the other way round, historically speaking, because of the predominance of minority governments and the nonstop occurences of peasant revolt.

Seems the same way today. The national discourse is ostensibly egalitarian, but when you take a closer look at the national policies, and the individuals, all the same attitudes remain in abundance. It's ALWAYS been about class, often with a cloak of racism and bigotry.

Socially the west is very progressive.

Ostensibly, yes. When you look at the wealth gap between rich and poor that picture starts to change. We talk a lot in this country about tolerance, but our policies still reflect the callous disregard for human life that typifies American Exceptionalism and social darwinism.

Decentralized power grids would do this as would Molecular Manufacturing. These things don't develop in a vacuum though which is why I've decided to take an active role in the development of such technologies.

Decentralized power is also ESSENTIAL to winning the War on Terror. (Winning would be qualified as making America a distinctly unattractive target, logistically and ideologically) The profits aren't as high though, so it will take a mandate from the citizens to make it happen. If ANY terrorist organization ever sought to attack America's people, the grid is a serious vulnerability. There's no excuse not to take advantage of current technology to rethink our approach to basic utilities and necessities like water, fuel/power, food, and so on.

The real shame of it all, as far as I'm concerned, is that we have all the resources to accomplish something, and little inclination to do so, seemingly. Present company exluded. All it takes is individuals, making decisions, to turn it all around. Powerful mojo...

[edit on 16-2-2006 by WyrdeOne]

Ok, how 'bout this:

Instead of killing billions, be it by outright extermination, war, allowing viruses, prion diseases etc. to take their toll, we explore some alternatives and talk about expending the admittedly limited resourses we do have on solutions.

For example, instead of creating bombs, guns, bullets and ostrich skin spinning chrome rims, we create the means to aquire more resources. They are out there, untapped and waiting within our grasp. The moon, mars and an entire freaking asteroid belt. Helium 3, ores and minerals, unused land and all the bloody hydrogen we could ever need. We have the capability and the need to tap these sources, so lets go get them!

Alternate energy. Let's get on this, lets get our solar, wind, wave, zero point and fusion tech's improved and producing. Waste treatment plants powered by the bio-electric fields produced by the very waste and bacteria they process. Fossil fuels have had their day, lets move on already. I'm not saying it will be easy, but why does it have to be? It is still necessary, whether there is 6 billion people or 2.

Food you say? First meet the above energy needs and lets bring water to the desert and heat to cold regions. We can grow food just about anywhere once we have a plentiful supply of energy. The earth's surface is 2/3rd's water. How about some good ol' sea farming?

We need to limit our reproduction; no more than two children per couple. We need to feed starving people all over the globe. Why is that relevant to limiting reproduction? I often argue with a friend who says "If these damn Ethiopians are so poor and hungry, why do they have so many kids? They should just stop." Well, starving Africans have lots of kids because they need to ensure that their line continues. If they don't, with child mortality what it is, there will be no Africans in a generation or two. If there is food for all, which there can be, two kids a peice would be just fine. For everyone; No religious excuses. Having all intercourse open to life was fine 2000 years ago. Not today. Though I'm sure God would get a huge laugh out of us reproducing ourselves to death.

The final soulution? Hah! These are just a few things off the top of my head. I'm sure we can add many things to this list. If we think of death so much, that is exactly what we will get. How about thinking of life for a change? Isn't that preferable?

It is most definitely preferable, but as someone pointed out before, it would require a complete overhaul of the lifestyles the "ruling elite" are accustomed to.

There doesn't seem to be much us 'Average Joes' can do about the situation with the 'ruling elite' even though we are originally their source of power. Depressing when you think about it... even more depressing is that in many cases when a fellow 'Average Joe' enters the ranks of the 'elite,' they conveniently forget their roots.

Humans just suck (most of them).

y are u people so concerned about overpopulation

u should be mroe concerned with preventing /surviving world war3

if ww2 on a biblical scale is more imminent i am not 2 worried about overpopulation right now

anyways if global warming does the damage it should it will wake people up to taking care of this planet

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
sardion
Good reply, and thanks for the heads up.

It really does feel like we've never been closer to realizing an egalitarian technological utopia

Oh god I hope we don't create a Utopia. To an engineer(or a would be engineer like me) that is a fate worse then hell I hope we find a nice comfortable middle ground though the current situation is unsustainable and to me is an engineers wet dream

Great stuff, I'd never looked into the field at all till you mentioned it. I love the idea of disassembling, but I always figured they'd use chemicals, such as is done with gold recovery and what not. The concept of using tiny machines never crossed my mind. It's a very cool idea.

www.foresight.org...

Here is the Book that kicked the whole idea off. It's a wee bit out of date as now even K Eric Drexler believes that Hard Nanobots are impossible or at the very least unfeasible and undesirable in the medium term.

I really hope I see landfills recycled in my lifetime. It's so handy that we kept such a great quantity of garbage.

I believe Buckminster Fuller predicted that this would be a possiblity by the mid-21st century. I hope he was being overly cautious in his predictions though as we need that technology NOW.

Well, that's not really a big issue when you consider how much more efficiently we could be using that land, and of course urban hydroponics can largely eliminate the need for arable land in the first place. I'd love to see human waste removal systems/sewer lines synergized with above and below ground hydroponics systems for the production of food, fuel, fiber, and other resources.

Heh, Have you seen this?

www.wired.com...

That's an excellent point, but for me personally, a disturbing prediction. I'm not sure cities of such size are the way to live. I think people work better in small groups - there's less stress because the spectre of competition is smaller.

Well if we start to colonize the Ocean anytime soon this could be a reasonable prospect.

It seems like in the city, everyone you meet is a potential enemy, and in the country, everyone you meet is a potential ally. Maybe that's just my perception, but it seems to be a fact of life that human psychology is rooted in tribe/pack dynamics. Of course that dynamic would change significantly, for the better, if resources were plentiful and distributed evenly, but what are the chances of that happening?

Well MNT could make this happen. I'm not talking about Nanobots or anything like that but Nanofactories like the Replicator on Star Trek(though not nearly as well impossible )

Sounds like you're part of the solution to the problems, that's meritous.

Thanks!

Just be careful with those matter-eaters, don't accidentally release them and kill us all, k?

Heh. If that were even possible don't you think Natural Selection would have already created a Nanomachine that does this already? I think if we are ever going to create Nanobots they will HAVE to mimick Ribonucleic acid as the Drexlerian version of Nanobots have the molecular bonds extremely strained and would be prone to alot of hazards like Natural nanomachines, Radiation and Temperature variations.

I can also forsee a Matrix-type future where the wealthy breed an underclass of humans to be enslaved, slaughtered, and harvested for their resources. Not pretty. Let's hope reason and compasson prevail over expediency and greed.

That's a new one. It's usually us inventing AI and them enslaving us Call me an optimist but I am very skeptical of any worst case scenario(besides M.A.D. that is ..... )

What're the odds?

For the above? Well IMHO and completely unexpert opinion(atm) 500 to 1 for any worst case scenario. With Mad I see the chances of that happening over the next century to be 100 to 1. Again all IMHO.

Decentralized power is also ESSENTIAL to winning the War on Terror. (Winning would be qualified as making America a distinctly unattractive target, logistically and ideologically)

Yup! I think the intelligent hawks are actually starting to get it too. It only took 4 years to start to get them to listen though. (I'm refering to the SOU Address)

The profits aren't as high though, so it will take a mandate from the citizens to make it happen.

Profits for whom? Someone will have to make a profit somewhere and as the pollution remediation becomes more and more expensive the worse things get, it will become soooo obvious. Hell even some Evangelicals are getting into the Environmentalist movement because they see it as a WWJD(What would Jesus Do) type of situation. I see alot of positive trends finally starting to develop.

You might like this website, it's where I get alot of my enviromentalist news and they are not technophobic which is a plus

www.worldchanging.com...

The real shame of it all, as far as I'm concerned, is that we have all the resources to accomplish something,

Eh no not quite. In order to have a true decentralized grid infrastructure we need solar cells embedded into just about every building material with at least a 30% efficiency with Superconducting powerlines. I don't see houses generated 100% of their power on their own but I see more and more Grid Tied setups becoming more and more popular as the technology gets better and cheaper. 8 Billion dollars in R&D was spent in the Alternative Energy market in the USA Alone last year. That's a whole 3 Billion more then Nanotechnology (And it doesn't even include the amount of the 5 billion federal R&D Budget in Nanotechnology that is applicable to sustainable technologies)

and little inclination to do so, seemingly. Present company exluded.

All it takes is individuals, making decisions, to turn it all around. Powerful mojo...

It's the ONLY way it can happen. You can help to by making a modest donation to the website I linked to above (the worldchanging one) I already sent em in 100 bucks as that is all I can afford and I recieved a what sounded like a non-form letter thanking me gratiously.



[edit on 16-2-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by alternateheaven
Of course if the route to kill off people is chosen its not necessary to pick who lives and dies, just pick two or more opposing nations and set them at each others throat to let them thin out the population as necessary;.

Seems to me, that's already being done over and over. Or is that your point?

I think, BTW, that the current contollers' goal is to reduce the population to 500,000,000 via diseases, war and perhaps some humanly triggered natural disasters thrown in for good measure.

I know I’m jumping the gun a little bit here....

But listening to a broadcast of the NWPR (Northwest Public Radio) today while driving to work from lunch, and listening to the talk of doctors giving lethal doses of medicine to people in New Orleans in the Hospital there (During or after the Hurricane), it made me think of this here article I red this morning.

Doctors.... giving lethal doses of Meds to people that are.... "Useless" and "too far gone"..... Something about the people on the 7th floor not being exited from the building, so the doctors over drugged some people... Of couple allegedly. Either there were a couple bad doctors, or some bad policy. I’m not sure.


[edit on 2/16/06 by HumptyDumpty]