Bald Eagles Keep Dying - Interior secretary repeals ban on lead bullets.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I hear you man. I've heard every wild idea about how sportsmen are the cause of everything, but NEVER commercial buisness.....

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: Area201

Another join and dump account. Join and dump crap.

From the source The Dodo

Our emotional approach to content engages and motivates people ­­ with the overarching goal of making caring about animals a mainstream, viral, social cause. We’re committed to looking at the world through animals’ eyes, and engaging our audience through a combination of fun, authentic, meaningful content that helps pave the way for progress.

Emotional approach really says it all. These are not scientists these are people looking to make people decide things based on emotion.

Personally I don't think we should be shooting toxic metals around wherever we like, but realistically this has an incredibly small impact. Lead levels in predatory animals are largely from bioaccumulation, not direct consumption of lead.

I don't wish to say a bad word, so I will say that birdies are not so big animals, in any case toxicity is more preferable to 'tiny amounts' like dust and grit, as in unstable Asbestos, and Gypsum rather than big lumps of material, as is a lead pellet that will be ground up in a birds gizzard.
But to be sure you have empathy with animals, that is worthy.

This story should be highly suspect simply because it would be mathematically and scientifically impossible to account for lead %, as high as claimed, due to hunters using lead projectiles. Bullets used to kill small game pass through an animal 99% of the time. This fact leaves only lead shotgun shot to blame. Now consider that 99% of all small game taken this way is recovered by the hunter. So its just not happening that enough lead poisoned small game is left laying around. I would say the figures are fake or need to be answered by another solution. At least I know any department head claiming this does not know what he or she is talking about and is probably spreading false information of political reasons.

Gullible fools are easily mis-lead.

Eagles have made a tremendous comeback.

And now scientists worry they are presenting a threat to some of the endangered species they prey on because they have become too numerous.

Can There Be Too Many Eagles?
news.nationalgeographic.com...

Lead shot deposited in lakes and ponds ingested by waterfowl kills birds, this is not up for debate. It has been studied for more than half a century and proven to be true. Steel shot is a viable alternative. Humans don't need to be leaving behind 6000 tons of lead litter each year from shotshells.
I hunt. I'll continue to use steel or bismuth. It's the ethical choice to make.

This is from research conducted in 1952

The largest recorded outbreak of lead poisoning among Illinois ducks occurred near Grafton in January, 1948. There were about 110,000 ducks, most of them mallards, wintering in the area. Soon after the end of the hunting season on November 27, they moved from Swan Lake, a United States Fish and Wildlife Service refuge, to a public shooting ground, known locally as Stump Lake. Evidently, in feeding upon seeds in the bottom silt of the shallow water area, many mallards picked up lead shot. A few weeks later, with the lake almost completely frozen over, Edward Davis, Refuge Manager, began to notice sick mallards on the ice and seeking concealment in the shore-line vegetation, Autopsy revealed lead shot in the gizzard of nearly every duck examined. A tally of the dead ducks revealed that from. 2,000 to 3,0-30 died on this occasion. Although the total seems large, it represented less than 3 per cent of the duck population in the area. In January, 1947, approximately 200 ducks that had died in a single week from lead poisoning were counted in the same area. At that time there were about 10,000 mallards present.

The proportion of ducks that swallow shot while feeding, as revealed by examination of gizzard contents, varies among the different species, fig. 11, indicating that lead poisoning losses may be higher for some kinds of ducks than for others. Whether they are actually higher can be determined only by further study. The great difference between the less than 1 per cent of the gadwalls and the more than 13 per cent of the redheads swallowing lead shot suggests a basic relationship between the quantity of ingested shot and the feeding traits and habitat of each kind of waterfowl. It seems likely that relatively few gadwalls and baldpates swallow shot because they feed on leafy plants rather than on seeds in the bottom soil

www.ideals.illinois.edu...

originally posted by: Area201
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

If the bird is too stupid to avoid the giant wind mills then that's natural selection. Eating food that's dead and poisoned with lead is some another level.

These birds generally like 'live' food...Those that love dead food are Turkey buzzards, crows, opossums, coyotes, foxes and a host of others...The arguments on your side are phony...

I'm pretty sure American Bald Eagles are actually Canadian birds.

originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: Area201
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

If the bird is too stupid to avoid the giant wind mills then that's natural selection. Eating food that's dead and poisoned with lead is some another level.

These birds generally like 'live' food...Those that love dead food are Turkey buzzards, crows, opossums, coyotes, foxes and a host of others...The arguments on your side are phony...

Bald eagles eat carrion more often than not.
See them quite often on the side of the highway eating roadkill.

Liberals really do need a better God. Stop believing every bit of b.s. This is only about bullets not eagles. Your servants are faithless, get a clue.

originally posted by: craterman
Liberals really do need a better God. Stop believing every bit of b.s. This is only about bullets not eagles. Your servants are faithless, get a clue.

It's not about bullets, it's about lead shot.
Steel shot has been the alternative for years, no one is running out of shotshells.
This isn't about taking away the shotshells it's about stopping a toxic substance from being thrown all over.
6000 tons a year.
Some of you guys would defend using depleted uranium if it was an option for waterfowl hunting.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Area201

Because they've been brainwashed to believe that all regulations of any kind are bad?

No, its because they are always regulation and never increases in freedom, and the regulations are never reversed. Any ground lost is lost forever, same with free speech or the 4th amendment. when was the last law passed that increased those freedoms, its always about "reasonable restrictions" until you are nickle and dimed into the poor house.

A. I was completely unaware that hunters shot fish, which is the main source of food of bald eagles.

B. Lead occurs naturally in nature.

This OP is the main reason government needs to be constrained. It will always over regulate; unfortunately there will always be an easily duped, uneducated, and illogical base of people that will never understand that as they swallow and regurgitate everything the power hungry monster feeds them.

a reply to: GenerationGap

A. I was completely unaware that hunters shot fish, which is the main source of food of bald eagles.

I like how make such a strong point that is completely wrong.

B. Lead occurs naturally in nature.

In what form? Little lead pellets distributed along the migratory pathway of waterfowl?

This OP is the main reason government needs to be constrained. It will always over regulate; unfortunately there will always be an easily duped, uneducated, and illogical base of people that will never understand that as they swallow and regurgitate everything the power hungry monster feeds them.

You can't even figure out what the diet of a bald eagle is and you are labeling others easily duped, uneducated and illogical? Turn that finger around and point at yourself.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: GenerationGap

A. I was completely unaware that hunters shot fish, which is the main source of food of bald eagles.

I like how make such a strong point that is completely wrong.

B. Lead occurs naturally in nature.

In what form? Little lead pellets distributed along the migratory pathway of waterfowl?

This OP is the main reason government needs to be constrained. It will always over regulate; unfortunately there will always be an easily duped, uneducated, and illogical base of people that will never understand that as they swallow and regurgitate everything the power hungry monster feeds them.

You can't even figure out what the diet of a bald eagle is and you are labeling others easily duped, uneducated and illogical? Turn that finger around and point at yourself.

Fish of many kinds constitute the centerpiece of the Bald Eagle diet (common examples include salmon, herring, shad, and catfish), but these birds eat a wide variety of foods depending on what’s available. They eat birds, reptiles, amphibians, invertebrates such as crabs, and mammals including rabbits and muskrats.

a reply to: GenerationGap

Also, people who eat a lot of fish, consistently show higher amounts of lead and Mercury.

And yes, the bottom of the sea floor and lake beds do in fact have lead naturally occurring at the bottom of them. And yes in portions small enough where bottom feeders sift through it.

To simply assume that eagles with high lead is because they've eaten the carcass of a deer or rabbit shot by a hunter, with the abundance of other sources containing lead-like fish, is moronic and illogical. It might be true, but is by far a small percentage compared to other sources.

If you want to blame mankind, don't blame gun owners; blame fisherman. I can guarantee there's a by far greater amonut of lead sourced by mankind and introduced into water life in one day by fisherman around the planet than gun owners in an entire year.

Use your brain.

a reply to: GenerationGap

A. I was completely unaware that hunters shot fish, which is the main source of food of bald eagles.

I misunderstood your post, I took your claim to mean that hunter shot fish was the main source of food for bald eagles. In 20 food habit studies across the species' range, fish comprised 56% of the diet of nesting eagles, birds 28%, mammals 14% and other prey. Behind fish, the next most significant prey base for bald eagles are other waterbirds.

But again, this for me isn't about the eagles, it's about lead litter in general. Lead shot kills waterfowl.

There's alternatives to lead shot that can be used.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: GenerationGap

A. I was completely unaware that hunters shot fish, which is the main source of food of bald eagles.

I misunderstood your post, I took your claim to mean that hunter shot fish was the main source of food for bald eagles. In 20 food habit studies across the species' range, fish comprised 56% of the diet of nesting eagles, birds 28%, mammals 14% and other prey. Behind fish, the next most significant prey base for bald eagles are other waterbirds.

But again, this for me isn't about the eagles, it's about lead litter in general. Lead shot kills waterfowl.

There's alternatives to lead shot that can be used.

Right, and if you are rich you can afford it. If you are not rich, too bad right?

If you use lead shot, be responsible and clean your game properly; a great compromise and middle ground we can all agree on I would think... Advocating that is better for both wildlife and the people who eat your game. Because let's face it, people are going to use lead shot regardless of legality because it's all they can afford. Might as well spend our energies raising lead awareness and responsibility than waste the money trying to enforce fascist central authority regulation.

a reply to: GenerationGap

Right, and if you are rich you can afford it. If you are not rich, too bad right?

Steel shot is comparable in price, money isn't an issue here.

If you use lead shot, be responsible and clean your game properly; a great compromise and middle ground we can all agree on I would think... Advocating that is better for both wildlife and the people who eat your game. Because let's face it, people are going to use lead shot regardless of legality because it's all they can afford.

Clean your game properly? What are you talking about? The issue here is lead pellets being deposited into the ecosystem and then being ingested by wildlife, poisoning it. Nothing to do with cleaning game properly, or maybe I have misunderstood your intent?

Might as well spend our energies raising lead awareness and responsibility than waste the money trying to enforce fascist central authority regulation.

Raising lead awareness and responsibility? What, you gonna tell people to go pick up all the lead shot after they are done shooting?

I think that lead shot from shotguns do pose a hazard but its a very small one compared to the mass poisoning and impending extinction Monsanto and Dupont are responsible for. You know that copper bullets are more effective than lead in bullets, at least from some info I've seen. I don't think environmental issues are the reason laws get passed or repealed, its economics first and foremost.

originally posted by: Dutchowl
I think that lead shot from shotguns do pose a hazard but its a very small one compared to the mass poisoning and impending extinction Monsanto and Dupont are responsible for. You know that copper bullets are more effective than lead in bullets, at least from some info I've seen. I don't think environmental issues are the reason laws get passed or repealed, its economics first and foremost.

Banning lead shot when hunting for waterfowl I support, using steel shot in place of lead is easy enough to do.

There are some premium bullets that are solid copper, they are expensive.
Copper jacketed hunting bullets with a lead core are not an issue from an environmental standpoint, banning them is purely political.

If this ban is on centerfire rifle or pistol ammo, I'm not going to support that at all. I thought it was just lead shot when hunting for waterfowl, like the law Canada has.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe, an Obama appointee, ordered a new ammunition ban for certain federal lands on Thursday–his last full day in office.

The ban, which took effect immediately, eliminates the use of lead-based ammunition on federal lands like national parks and wildlife refuges, as well as any other land administered by the Fish and Wildlife Service.The ban is expected to have a major impact on much of the hunting that takes place on federal lands across the United States as lead-based ammunition is widely legal and used throughout the country.

Ashe said the order was necessary to protect wildlife from exposure to lead.

www.zerohedge.com...

originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: Area201
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

If the bird is too stupid to avoid the giant wind mills then that's natural selection. Eating food that's dead and poisoned with lead is some another level.

These birds generally like 'live' food...Those that love dead food are Turkey buzzards, crows, opossums, coyotes, foxes and a host of others...The arguments on your side are phony...

You should use Google and read a bit about Bald Eagles. They actually compete with Ravens for carrion here. They are primarily scavengers and opportunists. They will take live prey and they have a taste for fish, but mostly they eat what's already dead.

When they were grossly overprotected for false reasons, they were used by activists due to them being the national bird in the same way the Spotted Owl was even lied about in court so that radicals could get what they wanted, while at the same time, wrongly costing many their jobs and destroying entire communities for lies.

The lies drove honest, logically minded people away from their causes and opened many peoples eyes to the games being played. They did themselves more harm in the end than good.

It's like the issues with our forests. Even though there is more standing timber now than when they landed on Plymouth Rock, some still push falsehoods.