I was in Palmdale and the Chem-trail pollution was off the charts

originally posted by: turbonium1


Look at the ACTUAL flight paths from Atlanta or Detroit to Tokyo, on the flight finder link above. The actual planes fly NOWHERE NEAR VANCOUVER.

These are the very same planes being claimed to fly 12 miles south of Vancouver. Making up a 'map' does not exactly constitute proof, of any kind.

Explain what these airliners are doing and why the person filming believes that they are flying over Vancouver?



As explained before it is a common misconception by chemtrail believers. They film airliners with contrails and then claim that the flights are directly over them or that they don't live under upper air routes.

Look closely at the video that I posted above. They guy even marks on his map of Vancouver of where he thinks the flights passed over Vancouver from his filming location. Can you not understand that people can be deceived by distance? Also take into consideration that upper winds can push a horizon to horizon persistent contrail many miles from where it was formed.

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: turbonium1

It is not common to see contrails, because certain conditions must exist first, and this is somewhat rare, generally.

These other trails are seen daily, around the world, and that would never, ever happen if it were actual contrails. Because the conditions for contrails to form are rare - not around the world, daily.

Why lie about things that anyone can easily check for themselves?

The dark green on this chart shows where conditions are right for persistent contrails

I notice this post was ignored by turbonium1. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: turbonium1

Play around with this website.
Live Flight Tracker

Thanks for the link.

I looked into the actual flight data from an actual airplane - which flew from Los Angeles to Shanghai.

The reason was that there was a claim that planes flew along the west coast going from LA to China. So there will be planes going over Vancouver during such flights, at times.

Is this all true, or not?

It is true that the planes fly along the west coast.

However, this plane showed it flew MILES AWAY from the coastline.

It was nowhere near to Vancouver.

I found other examples, with the same result - no flights fly above Vancouver, or even close to it.

Anyway, YOU are the one claiming it is true, YOU must prove it.

So go ahead, already!

super, you tracked one flight. Now try that with about 100 of them. And then you can thin about the jet stream. Oh, and then you can try to imagine what happens to a contrail that is created 50 mile east of Vancouver when it's in the jet stream.

I'll give you a hint, think clouds.

But if you would just rather believe there is a grand conspiracy to spray you, go nuts. You won't be alone.

I asked you to prove your claim.

Show me any actual flight to Asia which goes directly above Vancouver, if you can.

If you can't, your claim is worthless.


No excuses.

I'm sorry. You probably don't need to be involved in the debunking discussions here. If you ignore most of what's said, then the following conversations are pointless. As with my post where I tried to explain to you that a plane might be 50 miles away, but the resulting trail is blown over your location by the jet stream or trade winds.

But either way, I know for my own peace of mind that any trail you see was created by an aircraft in perfect conditions for a contrail and that contrail will behave exactly like contrails do. (because they are contrails)

a reply to: Rob48
that can be one of the symtoms of some types of autism and related conditions. lack of comprehension of time and spatial concepts. known imagey and repetitive actions, fixation on a theme/meme can be comforting for them.

originally posted by: suicideeddie
a reply to: Rob48
that can be one of the symtoms of some types of autism and related conditions.

...Autism and related conditions caused by chemtrail spraying!!! It's a vicious cycle!

I would add the little "winky face" to indicate that I'm kidding, but that would appear to make light of autism in general.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

...Autism and related conditions caused by chemtrail spraying!!! It's a vicious cycle!

It's the vaccines.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: turbonium1

Play around with this website.
Live Flight Tracker

Thanks for the link.

I looked into the actual flight data from an actual airplane - which flew from Los Angeles to Shanghai.

The reason was that there was a claim that planes flew along the west coast going from LA to China. So there will be planes going over Vancouver during such flights, at times.

Is this all true, or not?

It is true that the planes fly along the west coast.

However, this plane showed it flew MILES AWAY from the coastline.

It was nowhere near to Vancouver.

I found other examples, with the same result - no flights fly above Vancouver, or even close to it.

Anyway, YOU are the one claiming it is true, YOU must prove it.

So go ahead, already!

super, you tracked one flight. Now try that with about 100 of them. And then you can thin about the jet stream. Oh, and then you can try to imagine what happens to a contrail that is created 50 mile east of Vancouver when it's in the jet stream.

I'll give you a hint, think clouds.

But if you would just rather believe there is a grand conspiracy to spray you, go nuts. You won't be alone.

I asked you to prove your claim.

Show me any actual flight to Asia which goes directly above Vancouver, if you can.

If you can't, your claim is worthless.


No excuses.

I'm sorry. You probably don't need to be involved in the debunking discussions here. If you ignore most of what's said, then the following conversations are pointless. As with my post where I tried to explain to you that a plane might be 50 miles away, but the resulting trail is blown over your location by the jet stream or trade winds.

But either way, I know for my own peace of mind that any trail you see was created by an aircraft in perfect conditions for a contrail and that contrail will behave exactly like contrails do. (because they are contrails)

You ignore the whole problem, as usual!!

If you claim these are normal flights, then you must prove it, right?

Sure.

And you have all the data from current flights, each and every day, now, to prove your claim.

Why would you not have any data, available now, that proves your claim???

All current flights are shown, each and every day, over the past week, or two, and so forth...


This is actual data, from actual flights - do you get the point, yet??

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: turbonium1

Play around with this website.
Live Flight Tracker

Thanks for the link.

I looked into the actual flight data from an actual airplane - which flew from Los Angeles to Shanghai.

The reason was that there was a claim that planes flew along the west coast going from LA to China. So there will be planes going over Vancouver during such flights, at times.

Is this all true, or not?

It is true that the planes fly along the west coast.

However, this plane showed it flew MILES AWAY from the coastline.

It was nowhere near to Vancouver.

I found other examples, with the same result - no flights fly above Vancouver, or even close to it.

Anyway, YOU are the one claiming it is true, YOU must prove it.

So go ahead, already!

super, you tracked one flight. Now try that with about 100 of them. And then you can thin about the jet stream. Oh, and then you can try to imagine what happens to a contrail that is created 50 mile east of Vancouver when it's in the jet stream.

I'll give you a hint, think clouds.

But if you would just rather believe there is a grand conspiracy to spray you, go nuts. You won't be alone.

I asked you to prove your claim.

Show me any actual flight to Asia which goes directly above Vancouver, if you can.

If you can't, your claim is worthless.


No excuses.

I'm sorry. You probably don't need to be involved in the debunking discussions here. If you ignore most of what's said, then the following conversations are pointless. As with my post where I tried to explain to you that a plane might be 50 miles away, but the resulting trail is blown over your location by the jet stream or trade winds.

But either way, I know for my own peace of mind that any trail you see was created by an aircraft in perfect conditions for a contrail and that contrail will behave exactly like contrails do. (because they are contrails)

Your point was that the planes could be 50 miles away? Someone else in your group unknowingly put two planes flying right above YVR!

Some planes fly above, some fly miles away, that's the whole point!! To cover the sky, with poisons!

It would seem that none of these planes can be identified, after all your attempts.

Am I correct on that, or not?

If not, show me some sort of actual evidence.


Silence is clearly the opposite, as we all know..


So if you have no evidence, the planes have another purpose - and obviously, not a good one, for sure..

originally posted by: turbonium1
It would seem that none of these planes can be identified, after all your attempts.

What planes?

How about you put in a little effort and document the flights you're talking about, because I've just been back through this thread and unless I'm missing something all we've got is a vague description

Any times and dates? Any photos? Do you have a pair of binoculars?

BTW I notice you're still ignoring my debunk of your claim

Your side tried to prove the claim, with an example.

He claimed two planes on a video were on normal flights. There was no evidence of it, at all.

When I found out the actual flight paths were nowhere near Vancouver, he went completely silent.

I've shown the flights he used as support, do not support his claim,


I've also found many other flights, and none fly near Vancouver.


So I've done my part.


What about you, then?


I've proven all the planes - from available sources - do NOT fly near Vancouver.

So you need to prove just ONE of the planes does fly over Vancouver, now!



You want me to prove a negative. It's you that must prove it is real, get it?

a reply to: turbonium1

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: turbonium1

Play around with this website.
Live Flight Tracker

Thanks for the link.

I looked into the actual flight data from an actual airplane - which flew from Los Angeles to Shanghai.

The reason was that there was a claim that planes flew along the west coast going from LA to China. So there will be planes going over Vancouver during such flights, at times.

Is this all true, or not?

It is true that the planes fly along the west coast.

However, this plane showed it flew MILES AWAY from the coastline.

It was nowhere near to Vancouver.

I found other examples, with the same result - no flights fly above Vancouver, or even close to it.

Anyway, YOU are the one claiming it is true, YOU must prove it.

So go ahead, already!

super, you tracked one flight. Now try that with about 100 of them. And then you can thin about the jet stream. Oh, and then you can try to imagine what happens to a contrail that is created 50 mile east of Vancouver when it's in the jet stream.

I'll give you a hint, think clouds.

But if you would just rather believe there is a grand conspiracy to spray you, go nuts. You won't be alone.

I asked you to prove your claim.

Show me any actual flight to Asia which goes directly above Vancouver, if you can.

If you can't, your claim is worthless.


No excuses.

First of all, a plane does not need to be flying directly over a city to be easily seen from that city. A plane that is a ground distance of 20+ miles from you can be easily seen about halfway up in the sky.

Here are three flights I found that were flying at the time I searched (and I'm sure there are more all the time). These flew about 15 to 20 miles south of Center-City Vancouver and a little more than 10 miles from Vancouver International Airport.

Seoul to Chicago:

Seoul to New York:

Tokyo to New York:

Let's look at a flight from your post - KAL81 Seoul (ICN) to New York (JFK)...

Here's the live tracking page, and route coordinates...

flightaware.com...

flightaware.com...


It is the same flight (KAL81) as you cited, going from Seoul to New York.

The same flight you cited never goes near to Vancouver, ( located at 49.2827° N, 123.1207° W)

Same for the other two flights you cited. Nowhere close to Vancouver.


So now, there are 5 different flights your side has claimed fly near Vancouver, all 5 being proven to fly nowhere near Vancouver.


How did you come up with your three maps, anyway? They obviously don't show any of the actual flight routes.

a reply to: turbonium1

flightaware.com...

flightaware.com...

flightaware.com...

Multiple flights going over or near Vancouver. Once again, flight paths are not fixed. They change if the winds change, to either take advantage of them, or stay out of them.

Those are the actual routes flown by each flight. Funny how when you show one that shows them nowhere near Vancouver it's accurate, but when shown over or near Vancouver, they're not accurate.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

flightaware.com...

flightaware.com...

flightaware.com...

Multiple flights going over or near Vancouver. Once again, flight paths are not fixed. They change if the winds change, to either take advantage of them, or stay out of them.

Those are the actual routes flown by each flight. Funny how when you show one that shows them nowhere near Vancouver it's accurate, but when shown over or near Vancouver, they're not accurate.

Here's the flight log from your first link..

flightaware.com...

Do you notice that the latitude is 38.56 N or less, throughout the flight?

And do you recall Vancouver's latitude is about 49 N?

At 126 W, we calculate the distance between the plane and Vancouver - rounded off to 38 N, and 49 N....

The distance is about 758 miles.

Would the plane be anywhere near to Vancouver, now?


I'll look into your other examples, in my next post...

Flight log of second flight..

flightaware.com...

This plane flew one degree higher, to 39 N.

So it's closer to Vancouver than the other plane was.

Unfortunately, it was still about 689 miles from Vancouver.


Last example...

flightaware.com...

This plane never went above 37 N, when at 126 W.

So it fails, same as the other two have failed.


Anything else?

a reply to: turbonium1

Except you apparently skipped entire portions of the log there. Flight one passed less than 100 miles from Vancouver.

10:37AM 48.25 -122.44 100° E 533 37000
10:38AM 48.24 -122.33 100° E 533 37000
10:38AM 48.23 -122.22 100° E 532 37000
10:39AM 48.21 -122.11 100° E 532 37000
10:39AM 48.20 -122.01 101° E 533 37000
10:40AM 48.19 -121.91 101° E 533 37000
10:41AM 48.17 -121.79 101° E 534 37000

Flight 2 stayed a little farther south, but was still about 100 miles south. And Flight 3 was within 90 miles. All of which would leave trails that would appear to be over Vancouver.

It's kind of hard for them to have never gone over 38 or 39 degrees considering the lat and long for JFK is 40.6413° N, 73.7781° W.

Good try at faking the data though.

a reply to: turbonium1

30 years or more ago almost all aircraft navigated using ground based radio beacons,so the paths you saw them taking across the sky were almost always fixed and would always be in the same place relative to you if you always observed them from the same place.The pilots were also expected to report to ATC when they'd passed directly overhead the beacon that marks a waypoint on the airway they're flying on,with an estimate of when they expected to pass over the next beacon (VOR or NDB) or waypoint.

Nowadays with GPS based navigation systems these exact waypoints are almost redundant and they can fly a more efficient route without having to wait until they pass over a fixed point on the ground before they can turn.So back in the 1980s you might see Clipper 100 (A Pan Am call sign) fly directly over your house everyday at 2PM.Whereas now it might be over head one day,to the South the next day and to the North the next day all at the same time.

None of these planes have matched to commercial flights. Not one.

At least two of these planes fly over Vancouver (almost) every day, for many years now.

Every one of the planes has always left a trail, without fail.

All of the planes have something else in common....

If there is one of these planes flying above the city, and leaving a trail, there will always be another one of these planes which suddenly appears, and flies virtually a parallel path of the first plane's path, just a few miles apart.

And these trails always expand outward, and cover the skies, which were clear, and blue, before these planes flew over us.

If these planes are not working in tandem, they must all be magical coincidences.

First few hours of a day without a plane. Then one plane shows up, and leaves a trail. Within minutes, or even seconds, another plane suddenly appears, and it makes another trail, nearly parallel to the first trail. A few minutes later, a third plane shows up, and leaves another trail, which is nearly parallel to the first two trails. And often a fourth plane shows up, right after, and leaves a 4th trail, which is once again nearly parallel to the other trails.

No more of these planes show up afterwards, for the rest of the day.

This is not just for one day, it happens like this almost every day.


And if that's not blatantly obvious, another point will take the cake.....

It is not only that these planes leave parallel paths, one day. An entirely different path is left the next day, and nearly parallel paths are then left, by the following planes!!


How blind can one be to think it's all perfectly normal??

a reply to: turbonium1

And you haven't provided a shred of proof that they're not commercial flights. You've been shown, and proven wrong on your claim that no commercial flights go near Vancouver to or from Asia.

I'm sure you have checked every single commercial flight going over, every day, right? And every other possible type of aircraft? You've done your due diligence and investigated every possibility, right?

That's what I thought. Proven wrong and appeal to emotion.