I was in Palmdale and the Chem-trail pollution was off the charts

originally posted by: turbonium1

They have no need to fly directly over those cities when enroute to Asia. Only flights from San Diego might fly over LA, because they are close to each other, and on the coast. That is it, though.

Why would a flight from Dallas need to fly directly over any of these cities? That's absurd.

Here are four non-stop flights over the past day from the interior U.S. that flew over SoCal before heading out over the Pacific (to Honolulu). Honolulu isn't Asia, but that does not change the fact that planes heading over the pacific from interior U.S. cities might fly over LA or San Diego.:

From Houston:


From Las Vegas:


From Louisville:


From Atlanta:

a reply to: turbonium1

So why do pilots use Sky Vector to plan and file flight plans?

Sky Vector Link

To see the current Pacific tracks see following.

To centre the map on San Francisco type in KSFO (KSFO is the ICAO code for San Francisco International) in the "Flight Plan" box on the upper left and click "Go".

Make sure the "World Hi" is selected from the tabs on the right of the screen.

Click on "Layers" in the top right and from the drop down box and select "Pacific tracks East/West"

Now zoom out on the map and see the Pacific Tracks. Hover over those tracks and click on them to see the current NOTAMs

FAA Link to NOTAMs.

FAA Pacific Track NOTAMS

Now try it yourself and track flights in your region that are heading out over the Pacific to utilize those tracks in use. Use the playback facility.

Flight Radar 24 Link

Also use Flight Aware for specific flights and see the tracking logs, routes, etc.

You can start at 2:23 reporting on the reported proposed spraying with articles from MIT about the aluminum youtu.be... .. Everyone who has argued about doing air samples at altitude is kind of missing the point if this stuff is actually going on. We have soil sample dating back several years and yet when new samples are taken the amounts of aluminum and barium in the soil content has increased in some cases ten fold.. I can not explain those findings and neither can anyone else to my knowledge. At the 2:23 mark the short video discusses the proposal to spray stuff even though the UN Ipcc is against it.

For those who want a little independent reference the video does give search titles..

a reply to: 727Sky

We have soil sample dating back several years and yet when new samples are taken the amounts of aluminum and barium in the soil content has increased in some cases ten fold.

Do you have the reports? Including chain of custody of the samples? Any industry in the area?

a reply to: 727Sky

Aluminum in soil?

Is that unusual?

a reply to: 727Sky

Did you read the details? They're talking about spraying far above where planes, except aircraft like the U-2, F-22, and RQ-4 fly. The linked study was talking about spraying something above 63,000 feet.

The increased readings in soil samples could have come from anywhere.

Barium is a naturally occurring component of minerals that are found in small but widely distributed
amounts in the earth's crust, especially in igneous rocks, sandstone, shale, and coal (Kunesh 1978; Miner
1969a). Barium enters the environment naturally through the weathering of rocks and minerals.
Anthropogenic releases are primarily associated with industrial processes. Barium is present in the
atmosphere, urban and rural surface water, soils, and many foods.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

Occupational exposures to aluminum occur during the mining and processing of aluminum ore into metal,
recovery of scrap metal, production and use of aluminum compounds and products containing these
compounds, and in aluminum welding. Individuals living in the vicinity of industrial emission sources
and hazardous waste sites; individuals with chronic kidney failure requiring long-term dialysis or
treatment with phosphate binders; patients requiring intravenous fluids; infants, especially premature
infants fed soy-based formula containing high levels of aluminum; and individuals consuming large
quantities of antacids, anti-ulcerative medications, antidiarrheal medications may also be exposed to high
levels of aluminum.
According to the Toxic Chemical Release Inventory, in 2005, total releases of aluminum (fume or dust) to
the environment (including air, water, and soil) from 329 large processing facilities were
45.6 million pounds (~2.07x104 metric tons) (TRI05 2007). In addition, in 2005, total releases of
aluminum oxide (fibrous forms) to the environment (including air, water, and soil) from 59 large
processing facilities were 2.59 million pounds (~1180 metric tons) (TRI05 2007). Tables 6-1 and 6-2 list
amounts released from these facilities grouped by state. The TRI data should be used with caution
because only certain types of facilities are required to report (EPA 2005). This is not an exhaustive list.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

a reply to: 727Sky
Bentonite is an absorbent aluminium phyllosilicate clay consisting mostly of montmorillonite.

hmm, doesn't seem unusual to find aluminum....

a reply to: 727Sky

Even if these samples were taken from the exact same place ten years apart, and we had real proof that the aluminum levels had increased, and even if we had some sort of chain of custody verifying that, we still wouldn't know the source of the additional aluminum.

Maybe it's from an industrial source (either from smokestack pollution or water runoff pollution from a factory) rather than it being from a plane.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: 727Sky

Did you read the details? They're talking about spraying far above where planes, except aircraft like the U-2, F-22, and RQ-4 fly. The linked study was talking about spraying something above 63,000 feet.

The increased readings in soil samples could have come from anywhere.

Barium is a naturally occurring component of minerals that are found in small but widely distributed
amounts in the earth's crust, especially in igneous rocks, sandstone, shale, and coal (Kunesh 1978; Miner
1969a). Barium enters the environment naturally through the weathering of rocks and minerals.
Anthropogenic releases are primarily associated with industrial processes. Barium is present in the
atmosphere, urban and rural surface water, soils, and many foods.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

Occupational exposures to aluminum occur during the mining and processing of aluminum ore into metal,
recovery of scrap metal, production and use of aluminum compounds and products containing these
compounds, and in aluminum welding. Individuals living in the vicinity of industrial emission sources
and hazardous waste sites; individuals with chronic kidney failure requiring long-term dialysis or
treatment with phosphate binders; patients requiring intravenous fluids; infants, especially premature
infants fed soy-based formula containing high levels of aluminum; and individuals consuming large
quantities of antacids, anti-ulcerative medications, antidiarrheal medications may also be exposed to high
levels of aluminum.
According to the Toxic Chemical Release Inventory, in 2005, total releases of aluminum (fume or dust) to
the environment (including air, water, and soil) from 329 large processing facilities were
45.6 million pounds (~2.07x104 metric tons) (TRI05 2007). In addition, in 2005, total releases of
aluminum oxide (fibrous forms) to the environment (including air, water, and soil) from 59 large
processing facilities were 2.59 million pounds (~1180 metric tons) (TRI05 2007). Tables 6-1 and 6-2 list
amounts released from these facilities grouped by state. The TRI data should be used with caution
because only certain types of facilities are required to report (EPA 2005). This is not an exhaustive list.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...

That seems to explain (for me anyway) the increased levels of aluminum /// Thanks

a reply to: D8Tee

And the best part is that some chemtrail believers advocate taking bentonite to detox from the chemtrails!

a reply to: turbonium1

You really ought to look at a flight tracker site. Next time you see a plane heading west over your city (you don't say which city that is) then identify the flight and see where it is going.

There are so many freely available sources of information these days that there's really no excuse to remain in the dark and speculate.

originally posted by: fema1
a reply to: Krakatoa

I'm not saying contrails don't exist, but I am saying chemtrails do exist.

chemtrails
J._Marvin_Herndon
Author of the retracted chemtrail document by said claim of J. Marvin Herdon implies CIA forced the retraction.

Lithium in Chemtrails

For f*cks sake. Do you understand the meaning of the word evidence/proof?

originally posted by: turbonium1
Undeniable proof would be close-up footage of these planes while spraying..not likely to happen - not yet, anyway

It is not common to see contrails, because certain conditions must exist first, and this is somewhat rare, generally.

These other trails are seen daily, around the world, and that would never, ever happen if it were actual contrails. Because the conditions for contrails to form are rare - not around the world, daily.


It matters not if we had proof of this, anyway. The mass media would never speak about it. Nothing is proven if the mass media doesn't announce it as proof. Which means it wouldn't be considered as 'proof' of chemtrails, same way, as usual..

So..to be clear, you think if evidence came to light that there was a global program of mass aerosol spraying of unknown chemicals, if it turns out every man, woman and child was sprinkled daily with poison, barium, aluminum, whatever...that NO major news network would expose it. Not one around the world would expose one of the biggest stories ever?

Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to keep a story like that under wraps?

originally posted by: anotherside
Contrails don't stay long and break up due to atmosphere.

Chemtrails form large wide lines, whisping out into cloud formations, certain lenses or when the light is right you may see chemtrails rainbows from the aeresol.

But rainbows form from water droplets. Children know this. So how is a chemtrail rainbow not just a water , I.e a contrail, rainbow?

Please dont ignore my question

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

I didn't say they'd fly over those cities, I said flights from those cities will be seen over the Seattle/BC area. Because, again, it's called the great circle route. To get to Asia from the US, you don't just fly out over the Pacific and head towards Asia. You fly from where you're starting, head up towards Alaska, and down along Russia, and into Asia, wherever you're heading. So a flight from Dallas to Tokyo would head north, up over the Seattle and British Columbia area, go out over the Bering Sea, just south of Alaska, and down along the Kamchatka Peninsula, in to Tokyo.

It all depends on winds. Flights from the West Coast will sometimes head out early over the Pacific, sometimes they stay closer to shore, until they get higher on the route. Flights from further in, such as Dallas, frequently head up and go directly over Alaska, all depending on winds. The stronger the wind, the more the flights curve to stay out of them when they're going West. Coming East, they fly a more direct route to take advantage of the winds.

The planes fly over vast areas, right?

Cities are small in size, in comparison.

So to fly directly above a city would take pinpoint aim, or a miracle...


No go.

a reply to: turbonium1

And do you have any idea how far away you can see a contrail from and have it appear to be directly over something?

No? Didn't think so.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: turbonium1

I didn't say they'd fly over those cities, I said flights from those cities will be seen over the Seattle/BC area. Because, again, it's called the great circle route. To get to Asia from the US, you don't just fly out over the Pacific and head towards Asia. You fly from where you're starting, head up towards Alaska, and down along Russia, and into Asia, wherever you're heading. So a flight from Dallas to Tokyo would head north, up over the Seattle and British Columbia area, go out over the Bering Sea, just south of Alaska, and down along the Kamchatka Peninsula, in to Tokyo.

It all depends on winds. Flights from the West Coast will sometimes head out early over the Pacific, sometimes they stay closer to shore, until they get higher on the route. Flights from further in, such as Dallas, frequently head up and go directly over Alaska, all depending on winds. The stronger the wind, the more the flights curve to stay out of them when they're going West. Coming East, they fly a more direct route to take advantage of the winds.

The planes fly over vast areas, right?

Cities are small in size, in comparison.

So to fly directly above a city would take pinpoint aim, or a miracle...


No go.

Planes fly from point to point on their flight paths. Those points often radio beacons found at airports serving cities

Flight planning

a reply to: turbonium1
As Zaphod alluded to, a plane you see straight up over your head is over your head, but a plane that is halfway between "straight up" and the horizon could be 10 to 20 miles away from you (ground distance).

A plane that is 35,000 feet up and visible close to the horizon could be a ground distance of up to 50 miles from you.

a reply to: turbonium1

You do know (or maybe not) that modern GPS can position an aeroplane to within an accuracy of about 2 metres anywhere over land or sea? Even in the good ol' days of VORs and DME it was to within a few hundred metres.If that city is a designated waypoint,why would it be strange to fly directly over the top of it?

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: turbonium1
Undeniable proof would be close-up footage of these planes while spraying..not likely to happen - not yet, anyway

It is not common to see contrails, because certain conditions must exist first, and this is somewhat rare, generally.

These other trails are seen daily, around the world, and that would never, ever happen if it were actual contrails. Because the conditions for contrails to form are rare - not around the world, daily.


It matters not if we had proof of this, anyway. The mass media would never speak about it. Nothing is proven if the mass media doesn't announce it as proof. Which means it wouldn't be considered as 'proof' of chemtrails, same way, as usual..

So..to be clear, you think if evidence came to light that there was a global program of mass aerosol spraying of unknown chemicals, if it turns out every man, woman and child was sprinkled daily with poison, barium, aluminum, whatever...that NO major news network would expose it. Not one around the world would expose one of the biggest stories ever?

Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to keep a story like that under wraps?

I am a subeditor for a national newspaper. I have repeatedly issued a challenge to chemtrail believers: bring me some real, tangible evidence, and I promise I will get it in print. It would be the biggest environmental scandal in history, and any journalist would kill to break it.

So far, the only responses I've had are that I should "do my research" or "look up" because the evidence is everywhere. Strangely, for all their "research", none of them seem to be familiar with any of the vast amount of scientific literature I've read since I started looking into chemtrails.