Do you think that human beings could be on alien worlds, right now?

Somewhere I'd read a story about an island in the Pacific Ocean where the US Government (Naval Intelligence) had arranged a rendezvous with an advanced ET Civilization/Race, and it appeared credible (need to go back and do more research, and perhaps someone here might help shed light on that story), and of course there's all the rumors about Area 51, Majestic 12, Apex of the Trilateral Commission, etc, and all of this got me to thinking about how I'd handle that kind of "op" if I were the secret government involved in alien contact..

First thing that would come to my mind would be an exchange of some kind to get some of our people aboard their spacecraft for a "tour", to then be debriefed in secret upon return, with an agreed upon 2nd meeting scheduled for some time in the future.

Which leads me to suspect that even now, as we speak, human beings are living on alien worlds either in this galaxy or any another, since if they're getting here, the Spacetime Continuum doesn't have the same kind of meaning that we think it does and thus, they could be coming from anywhere just as easily as they could within a sphere of 100 lights years.

Could you imagine?

Would you volunteer for such an assignment?

Leave it all behind and risk getting killed if/when you ever return?

Perhaps the aliens, knowing full well that the returning humans would be killed because of their knowledge, made the deal that people could come along on the caveat that they would not be returned, yet they still volunteered to go along for the ride.

If we've made contact, then I think it's fair to assume that this is in fact the case in some form or another.

Which is why I think that if/when we ever take to the stars that by the time we get to other inhabitable worlds, we'll already be there in one form or another to greet us, from world to world even in the same sequence that we make the discoveries of each new habitable world.

Such a scenario would give new meaning to the saying "the first shall be last and the last, first".

If they are out there, then they've organized according to some sort of interplanetary legal framework about what they can and cannot do, or this Earth as we know it, would already be colonized and we would not be here as we are.

We are either alone, or, on the threshold of an interplanetary and intergalactic society, the implications of which would cook our noodle, and even still there would be dishes to do and a job to go to in the morning.

Life would go on, but nothing would be the same if ever we come into this domain of what might be called a "long Earth" with iterations and variations strewn across the cosmos, and with the means to get there from here, so it would be from there to here, to everywhere.

The UFO phenomenon, if of those that are of the "unexplainable" variety, some really are ET spacecraft, suggests in no uncertain terms that FTL travel is possible, and even happening.

The implications of this are utterly astounding.

Do people just like you and me look up at a different POV of the heavens with something other than the Milky Way Galaxy arcing across the sky like a river?

And if not like us, how do "they" see the world and themselves and even us, if they've discovered us already?

And wouldn't it be funny if they all turned out to be true Christian believers/brothers ie: understanding that an indomitable love rules the roost, with it's own implied mutual commitments and obligations and even the reason that they didn't invade or colonize our world.

Would we abide by the same rules when we get there, and will there perhaps already be teachers waiting for us when we do?

That would really freak people out, if everywhere we went we were greeted by humanoid forms ready to teach us about the root and source of all our character defects so that we cannot become a destructive force as we move to the stars. I mean just look at what we did to Iraq..

Can we be trusted, human beings. That I think is the question that the aliens ask themselves as they "man" the quarantine while giving a handful of people the ride of their lives..

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Why is it a fact to you they'd get killed?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Why is it a fact to you they'd get killed?

Good question. It did sound odd, didn't it.

The reason would be only if absolute secrecy was being maintained indefinitely, you could not release such a person back into society or have them going around with that kind of knowledge. If it were above above top secret, then after being debriefed, they would probably be disappeared, but then again, the Aliens would see this and know, which is the kind of thing that could maybe result in a terrible diplomatic incident capable of placing the whole world in jeopardy.

Level of sensitivity if being kept secret.

However, that said, for actual contact, when it happens, it could very well be that these would be the first people that everyone would encounter, as emissaries or ambassadors to humanity, and thus their return would take place at first contact, that would make the most sense. They'd present to us like Michael Smith in A Stranger in a Strange Land..

Then, it would simply be a matter of boarding their "ship" or stepping into a small cube or something, let's hope that their manual for the salvation of the Earth isn't "To Serve Man"!

...and then, just as you're boarding or entering the portal/stargate device, you hear some guy screaming at the top of his voice "It's a COOKBOOK!" as the Alien prods you and says "move along" in a creepy baritone voice due to the synth he uses to speak aloud, or worse, that you only hear in your head.

Either way, it's a very sticky and thorny issue, because it introduces exo-socio-political implications which would render our "world" and way of life and right to freedom and self-determination dead and gone.

The reason for the cover up is because it's so out of control in an almost complete vacuum of knowledge and understanding, so if ever contact was made, we would really need these people to bridge the divide, but what then..?

Maybe it would ruin us, like the couple who win the cosmic powerball lottery and then end up becoming junkies.

We're so far from ready, and even if we were, the "elite" were probably be willing to start WWIII to prevent it from happening, like an upturned spearhead (into the side of Christ) with a sign that reads - stay away or we'll destroy the Earth!

I'd think some of them are, as many say, so far along with their evolution that they don't belong to any religion but are spiritual and in ways we would never understand.

I don't really understand why people would be killed. Easier for the ET's to make you forget or for human hypnosis to make you forget.

Just my take on it.

What if we're on other worlds, and so far there aren't any ETs? At least, not at more than a level of maybe a dog in intelligence?

originally posted by: BigEyes
I'd think some of them are, as many say, so far along with their evolution that they don't belong to any religion but are spiritual and in ways we would never understand.

I don't really understand why people would be killed. Easier for the ET's to make you forget or for human hypnosis to make you forget.

Just my take on it.

What would be the point of going on a tour that you can never remember..?

But I see what you're saying, how they could be debriefed, then rendered an amnesiac regarding what had happened to them or where they went and what they saw and experienced, all wiped clean.

originally posted by: Bedlam
What if we're on other worlds, and so far there aren't any ETs? At least, not at more than a level of maybe a dog in intelligence?

How'd we get there?

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: Bedlam
What if we're on other worlds, and so far there aren't any ETs? At least, not at more than a level of maybe a dog in intelligence?

How'd we get there?

In whaling ships, and sailing ships, and ships of ev'ry kind! - Tommy Makem

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: Bedlam
What if we're on other worlds, and so far there aren't any ETs? At least, not at more than a level of maybe a dog in intelligence?

How'd we get there?

Maybe we evolved there?.. Would explain evolutionary gaps.. Dun dun dunn...

Taking my foil hat off now.

I do believe that there is a huge possibility of human life evolving on other planets as well as here Earth. Millions of years and millions of planets makes zillions of possibilities for it to happen twice.

Of course! wouldn't we have ET on earth if we were the more advanced race!

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

That's not how it works.

Somebody reaches the end of their road here on Earth. Lost in the wilderness with no hope of rescue. Terminally down on their luck. No-one and nothing left in their lives worth going on for. Something like that. But still viable, rational and capable of performing some useful function.

Secretly, in a place far from prying eyes, someone makes them an offer. A new life on a new world. There's a price, of course. Use your imagination as to what it might be. It will be one the contactee is happy to pay. The makers of the offer will know that in advance, of course.

The deal is done. Another person vanishes for ever from the face of the earth.

The trip is always one-way. Don't believe the fabulists who claim to have been to the stars and returned. Strict contact protocols forbid any act that carries a risk of cultural contamination. Gone is always gone for good, and no-one here the wiser.

An apache brave, a lonely wise Himalayan widow, a young Crusader lost in the Libyan desert, a Kho!san mother who had just buried her only child, a Samurai kneeling in a paper room, musing over his bare sword: these, and others, now live and labour under foreign stars.

One day -- who knows -- you too may be invited to join them.

when do I leave .
will take my chances out there .
had more than enough of humans and their stupidity .

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I'd think its been fairly well accepted that there are human beings on other planets. We know from reports that a select group of Nazi scientists and members of the Vril society including Traut A., Sigrun and Maria Orsitsch escaped the collapse of Nazi Germany by traveling to a planet in the Aldeberan system.

See: 1stmuse.com...

In December 1943 Maria attended, together with Sigrun, a meeting held by Vril at the seaside resort of Kolberg. The main purpose of the meeting was to deal with the Aldebaran project. The Vril mediums had received precise information regarding the habitable planets around the sun Aldebaran and they were willing to plan a trip there. This project was discussed again the 22nd January 1944 in a meeting between Hitler, Himmler, Dr. W. Schumann (scientist and professor in the Technical University of Munich) and Kunkel of the Vril Gesellschaft. It was decided that a Vril 7 Jaeger would be sent through a dimension channel independent of the speed of light to Aldebaran. According to N. Ratthofer (writer), a first test flight in the dimension channel took place in late 1944. Maria Orsic disappeared in 1945. The 11th of March of 1945 an internal document of the Vril Gesellschaft was sent to all its members; a letter written by Maria Orsic. The letter ends: "niemand bleibt hier". Tis was the last announcement from Vril. It is speculated they departed to Aldebaran.

Nazi scientists revealed, when asked how they progressed so fast, replied they'd had help from "the others". Most agree that the others were Nordic Aliens who were in communication with Maria Orsitsch and other "mediums".

Yes, I do believe humans are living on other planets, with humans I mean humans from this planet who whenever in history and/or present, have moved and live on other planets.

Anything is possible.

The only thing that scares the bejeezus out of me about deciding to go along for
the one way trip is... Space diarrhea.
Space Diarrhea has been known to cause serious issues in a weightless environment.

Imagine floating and clawing your way to the spacecraft "splatter house" in a panic that your not going to make it.
Finally getting undressed enough to sit upon the muck bucket, and literally being blown off your seat do to one
absurd case of Space Diarrhea.

Think of the impression your alien friends would have of you, when you turn their lavatory into a place of pure filth.

Whos going to clean the mess up? It will be everywhere. You will be finding that stuff for months floating around the ship.

Nope, couldnt do it.

Space diarrhea ruins it for me.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Ankh,

Listen. I would be thrilled to death to learn that we are not alone in the universe. However, I am also bound to and staunchly in favour of the scientific method, reason, rationality. The precise stage at which you begin to diverge away from a position wherein you and I might discuss these matters, can be found in line one, paragraph three of your OP.

It is not reasonable or rational to allow a thought exercise to lead you to suspect something, unless that thought exercise comes with more than anecdotal evidence to support it. A tale you read somewhere of a secret meeting between members of a government black program and a contingent of alien lifeforms, which comes with no supporting evidence, nothing remotely like it in fact, cannot reasonably morph into suspicion. It can morph into an understanding of a remote possibility, but not a suspicion that this event actually occurred. That you took that suspicion and went on to develop some offshoot scenarios which stem from it only shows that your imagination is a wonderful thing, and probably very well suited to fiction writing indeed. In fact, if you were to write a science fiction book, I am certain, given what you display above, that it would be a depthy and interesting read, with a few tweaks to make the science element hold the suspension of disbelief test that any such work must pass.

Can I imagine such a scenario? Of course I can. Do I frequently imagine such things? Yes, indeed I do. Does any of my imagination equate to evidence or proof of the concept? Of course not.

The simple fact of the matter is, that as far as we can make out from what facts are known, none of what you muse about can be said to be an actual occurrence, none of it can be backed up. It remains an intriguing thought to entertain (until it reaches the buffer of provability) but little else besides.

And I think it is also worth pointing out the following:

If life can be found on other planets than this one, it is possible that some of it bares a resemblance to ours, in locations which would promote similar growth, by way of providing similar environments for it to occur, on similar timescales. But the higher probability is that life in this universe that we are in, is as varied or more so, than we have on this world. Between differences in atmosphere, differences in gravity, differences in the amount of radiation hitting a planets surface, what types are and are not filtered by any presence of atmosphere, and so on, there are far too many variables at play, to assume ANYTHING about the type of life that is out there in the universe, how it came to be there, without first actually discovering it, examining it and the environment it grew in, and comparing its genes or nearest analogue, to our own to establish any potential commonalities.

It would be AMAZING to discover other life forms, spun from the same thread as those we find on Earth, clearly from the same RNA source that is, on other worlds. Closer looks at Mars may prove fascinating, absolutely astounding in that area. We still have yet to visit Europa, the largest (unless I am much mistaken) accumulation of water in the solar system, even greater some suspect, than the amount comprising the oceans of the Earth. But make no mistake, at present these, alongside observations by the space telescopes of the future, of far distant worlds, orbiting other stars, are the best hope we have of making such a discovery.

An imagination is a great thing to have, and I support it with all my heart, but there comes a point where you have to concentrate on the things you could prove, with forensic levels of rigor. These things, these concepts you have taken for a walk are interesting and wonderful, but they mean nothing absent data to back them. You have posted this thread in the Aliens and UFOs section, for obvious reasons, but I think it is high time that people who consider the field something of note, something worth spending time on, understood that there is no point in spit balling science fiction any more. The fantastic, for all that it is still fantastic, is something anyone can walk into a bookstore and indulge in. The libraries of the world are stacked full of fictions which expand the horizons one has, which open the mind to possibilities far greater than the ones provided by their every day lives. But UFOlogy and the subject of alien life and visitation, MUST evolve to have much greater standards of rigor, discipline and fact obsession than it currently displays, if it is to survive the coming generations.

I personally think the field has great promise, will one day be considered a genuine field of study, rather than the sole territory of those considered crackpots and lunatics. But that time will not come any faster, unless those interested in the field are prepared to abandon imagination as a tool for anything other than their amusement, and begin the process of forcing themselves into the position of genuine research, investigation and scientific standards of evidence collection and examination.

I have given birth to worlds, galaxies and entire universes in my mind, aged them and seen them go dark and cold before vanishing from existence completely, sometimes several times a day. I have invented creatures from the mundane to the entirely energetic, conscious energy, absent constraining matter and none the less cohesive. I value imagination a great deal. But it amounts to no more than imagination, for all that it is enjoyable to indulge in.

As Morpheus said to Neo...

Show me.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

the US Government (Naval Intelligence) had arranged a rendezvous with an advanced ET Civilization/Race

What i find incredible is that it is always The U.S. government or military that has these encounters with Aliens.

Why don't you ever hear stories from other countries governments or military doing the same. Why does the U.S. alone have this privilege?

This in my mind makes stories like this complete nonsense.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

They'd present to us like Michael Smith in A Stranger in a Strange Land..

As long as we don't have to eat him to grok him or for him to become a martyr - o wait that happened to Jesus as well

Hey Ankh;

Have you read THIS THREAD?

You might find it interesting, whether you believe it or not.