Think about it

Ah good point. I can only say God is the one who says who deserves what. If you take everyone country that commited some form of slavery the world would be gone. Nearly every country enslaved or oppressed some race or culture. I hope you know Africa is not perfect. Look at the Congo, and whats going on there.

The poem has a very dark feel to it.
If i did not know anybetter, id say it was written by some right wing christian.
Once again we turn to God to solve all our problems.
Its as if in the absense morning prayers in school our socitey has been thrown in utter turmoil.
"Wake up and smell the cofee"
A lot of these threads seem to be leading to the very same topics, wether not GOD is to blame for our mishaps in life?
Did God create money?
Did God create Greed, power, love, sadness, war, poverty?
Deep

Dolly was a little lamb,
her fleece was white as snow,
because of a genetic defect,
she wound up in a hole,

now greenpeace and peta protest,
while the fundies cry and weep,
I just say you shouldn't trust,
a scotsman and his sheep...



(I just wrote this cause i was bored at work. )

thank you, thank you, tip your waitress...

Originally posted by Illmatic67
If you understood the history of "In God we trust" in the Pledge you'd understand why people want it scrapped from it, like me.

It was a manipulation tool Eisenhower used to demonize the Communists and to make people believe God was on our side and against the Communists.

How about saying, "In Allah we trust" Same God right? Let's see how those 86% would feel.

America is not a godly country.

Here we go again.

This nation was founded as a nation to live under Judeo-Christian ethics, morals and principle. You want to live under Islamic principles, there are nations that have that. bug out, if you so desire. No, you'd rather stay here where you have better opportunities and in a nation that won't hold you back because of NOI beliefs, whereas if it were the otehr way around, were I to be a Chrsitian or a Jew in an Islamic state I'd know different treatment.

As far as your history of the coin, again, you are incorrect. The first time In God We Trust was on a U.S. coin was on the 1864 two cent coin of 1864. You might even want to read the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873, passed by congress. The motto has been on one coin or another of ours since.

As far as the Soviet Empire inspiring any reliance on God and your ire over that, all I can say is you don't understand what you don't understand, and I don't have enough time in the day to try and deprogram you from your "training" that you have received. I only hope that one day you are able to see things for yourself, rather than buy into others' blind hatred.

Originally posted by JediMaster
Then what do you suggest we do with all the money that already has "In God We Trust' on it?

The same thing we did with all the money that said "This piece of paper is still backed by something"

Without morals a country is nothing

And why, is the absence of religion necessarily the absence of morality? I am not religious, but I consider myself far more moral than most Christians and other theists, that I know....

Originally posted by Gazrok

Why, in all our technologic advances and advances in humanitarianism, is our public schools declining in morals and respect for life?

Never before were BOTH parents working as much. Nowadays, you'd be hard-pressed not to see a family with both parents working. Compare this to about 20 years ago, and then 20 years before that. Kids get home from school, and they're raised by video games, and television....not a parent. The parents both eventually come home, and as both worked all day, neither has the energy nor the patience to deal with the kids....

I agree. This "it takes a village to raise a child" crap ideology where both parents are forced to work to provide the minimal needs due to over-taxation and the "new social engineering" experiments that have taken effect over the last decade coupled with lack of morals in our morals for our country's leaders which has given kids poor examples for behavior. Its too bad this ideology didn't go out the window with God but I feel it was sneaking in the back door while we were so worried about kicking God out the front. Like I said rationalize it away all day long. I'm not denying you have strong arguments because they have really been researched to the fullest but that doesn't take away the cause / effect relationship between what you so casually call the "the absence of some half muttered lip service to a non-caring, non-responsive deity of fantasy" and the indoctrination of everything to which you attribute the moral decline. Not meaning to insult you or your ideas just pointing out the obvious.

Thomas - well said!

Illmatic - I would venture to guess that one reason the diety GOD is on our currency and not ALLAH is thus:

The God of Judeo/Christianity love us all: Jews, Christians, believers and non-believers. We all have equal opportunity with him and it is never too late to be forgiven (in that belief system).

The God of Islam teaches its adherents to avoid and distain Jews and Christians. Non-believers and all other pagans get the quick mercy of the sword.

Islam is fundamentaly at odds with our Constitution and Declaration of Independence. What was once a religion of beauty, education and enlightenment is rapidly degenerating into a cult of death, hatred, repression and intolerance. It is a a belief system that is feeding the hungry and underpriviledged masses a steady diet of hate and extremism.

I have seen it first hand in my travls to Egypt, Oman, U.A.E., Qatar and Bahrain (I was fortunate enough to have avoided Saudi Arabia). You will never convince this American Islam is anything other than the direct antithesis of the American way.

Please send me an e-mail so I can glady send you a one-way ticket to the Islamic state of your choice..........

www.disinfo.com...
Thought some of you would just get a kick out of that

Ummm, sorry, it was freedom of religion, but freedom from religion was always how I saw it. ;-)

Pryos great post. Islam was once peacful yet millitant, but it was at odds with the Chirsians and Jews, and these radicals are corrupting it.

Lorena, liberalism is ruining the country s its wiping out all relgion. They dont want Boy Scouts and the 10 Commandments in public yet its okay to have sex in public where children can see it.

Originally posted by JediMaster
Pryos great post. Islam was once peacful yet millitant, but it was at odds with the Chirsians and Jews, and these radicals are corrupting it.

Lorena, liberalism is ruining the country s its wiping out all relgion. They dont want Boy Scouts and the 10 Commandments in public yet its okay to have sex in public where children can see it.

Only if its alternative lifestyle sex. No straight sex allowed. Wouldn't want you to go getting in trouble over semantics.

I dont want any sex in public wheter it be homo or straight. Its the point, its not right sex is for married couples and in private.

Jedi, I agree. When I had to go to "sensitivity training" I was expected to tolerate same sex acts, but my comment was, I work in soil science lab. What the hell would having sex have to do with that? I agree that sex isn't for most workplaces (unless you're a prostitute then its kinda hard to avoid) homo or straight so why did I have to get training on it? But of course it didn't matter that me thinking 2 guys having sex in the hall outside my office would offend me, no, I had to learn that saying anything against such an act is the offensive crap we have to stop. I had to spend an entire week away from work in human resources listening to that sort of crap...and I prolly would have gotten in trouble had my boss not been required to take it too. He felt the same way about it I did. When your main objective is research, sex really doesn't come into play very much. I have yet to see such an act but I guess I am now prepared to be disgusted the politically correct way.

Thomas, your WRONG, as always on this topic.

America was not founded on Christian-Judeo Morals. It's an insult to a true practicing Christian to say it was. Because the last time I checked, Christianity doesnt teach enslavement, lies, murder, rape, and kidnapping the way America has practiced it.

America was founded on Satanic beliefs, that's common sense. Just look at the layout of Washington D.C and the Washington Monument.

About the "In God We Trust..." read my post again. I was talking about the saying the Pledge of Allegiance, not in a little coin. And to put God in paper currency is a contradiction itself because money brings out the greed and hate in people, not the love and peace God is defined as. As a matter of fact, God doesnt have to be some supernatural God... God to many people is money.

Islam:

Islam is beauty. It's a shame that people look at the bad side of Islam more than the good. That's what happens when the media brainwashes the American people to think Islam is an evil religion but they, ya brainwashed, that's your defense.

Islam doesnt teach to hate Christians and Jews, what Qur'an have you read? The Qur'an clearly states Christians and Jews will have their reward with Allah because of their faith and good deeds...

Ill is right in some aspects, Islam does have a beautiful side, just like most of the other religions, but it also has its bad side just like most the other religions.

Gaz you are correct about the public catholic schools issue. It isnt that beacause they teach about god that there is less violence and such it is beacause of the student teacher ratios and beacause of the private funding atributed to most catholic schools. in a class rom with one teacher per 15 to 20 students you will find that there is lees disruptin and violence then a class room where there is 30 to 35 students with one teacher.

'In god we trust' it can be interprited many ways, God is the universal name for a higher being, it isnt a personal name, allah, budda and jehovah are personal names, God isnt, it is a discription, so it would there for make sence to put 'in God we trust' so it covers the many different aspects of uniformed religion, now in saying that Gaz says 'but what about athiests', well you dont have to believe in something to trust it, i know that sounds wierd and your probibly going wtf are you talking about, so i ll explain, people dont believe that the centre of the earth is nickel and lead, but we trust there is a centre, people dont believe there is aliens on earth but they trust that we would be protected from them. Atheists have no god but they trust in an after life(well most do). So for athests there god would be the great Unknown.

Illuminati, I deal with historical facts, you deal with propaganda.

The nation was based on Judeo-Christian morals and ethics, I did not say everything that we have done has been Godly. You twist the truth as well as your masters, Grasshopper, I see you have been reading the propaganda constantly.

As far as Islam meaning love, we see that all around the world today! Of course I'm certain you believe that Islam is fighting all over the world because it is spreading its "love".

As far as it spreading the idea that Christians and Jews are also going to your heaven, where does it say that? Didn't Muhammad write the the Islamic religious book? You love to drag up times when the Catholic church killed Muslims (actually, they killed Muslims, Jews and Christians alike, as they had no idea who belonged to what belief), how about Muslims killing Jews? Wanna start in the beginning of your adopted religion, or the adultry of it? Wanna start when Muhammad expelled two tribes of Jews from Medina around 622AD because they would not convert to his newly created religion? His followers slaughtered 600 to 900 of the men and divided the surviving women and children amongst themselves. Such the religion of Peeeeeeace right from the start.

Maybe you want to mention the dhimma which was extended to the Christians and Jews after being conquered by the Muslims. Of course, that is if they agreed to pay jizya, always assume the position of subordination and attest that Islam is the superior religion? Yeah, the Mafia used to do the same thing, it was called extortion. In your adopted world I'd either be killed or I'd have the privelege to pay a taxso as to be subjugated, whereas in mine you are allowed to follow your belief.

Illuminati, I could go on but would rather play video games with my son this evening.

You don't know what you don't know. You've allowed yourself to be brainwashed by the NOI and try and spread their hate. I know the facts, though, and know much better. Maybe one day. Your brain is sharp and your body is young, you have timeto discover the truth. Unless, of course, a bus gets you!

Thomas, again wrong. I can tell you don't know nothing about Islam to think I'm with the NOI. But what do you know anyway

America was not founded on Christian morals. If so, explain the Atlantic Slave Trade which claimed the lives of 250 million Africans, broke up families and lost their identity. Explain one of Mankind's greatest evils- the American genocide against the Native American Indian. Is that Christian like? I don't think so.

As far as it spreading the idea that Christians and Jews are also going to your heaven, where does it say that?

This confirms it. You have no clue what your talking about. Pity.

"Those who believe in the Qur'an, and those who believe in the Jewish Scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve"

Surah 2:62

Muhammad write the the Islamic religious book?

Wow, again this confirms it. Muhammad didnt write anything his entire life. Muhammad was illerate, he couldnt read nor write.

Wanna start when Muhammad expelled two tribes of Jews from Medina around 622AD because they would not convert to his newly created religion? His followers slaughtered 600 to 900 of the men and divided the surviving women and children amongst themselves

Ok, you must be talking about the Battle of the Trenches. Bet you didnt know that was what you were talking about though. What the Jews did to Muhammad was pledge allegiance to Muhammad then an hour later they all betrayed him and them and the Quraysh alike tried to kill the Prophet. What's the penalty for treason? Death. Even here in America the penalty it's death.

Read.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Illmatic67
America is not a godly country.

I disagree. It's precisely because the US has so many gods that you are so unhappy.

We're unhappy? Did not know.........

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Thomas, again wrong. I can tell you don't know nothing about Islam to think I'm with the NOI. But what do you know anyway

America was not founded on Christian morals. If so, explain the Atlantic Slave Trade which claimed the lives of 250 million Africans, broke up families and lost their identity. Explain one of Mankind's greatest evils- the American genocide against the Native American Indian. Is that Christian like? I don't think so.

As far as it spreading the idea that Christians and Jews are also going to your heaven, where does it say that?

This confirms it. You have no clue what your talking about. Pity.

"Those who believe in the Qur'an, and those who believe in the Jewish Scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve"

Surah 2:62

Muhammad write the the Islamic religious book?

Wow, again this confirms it. Muhammad didnt write anything his entire life. Muhammad was illerate, he couldnt read nor write.

Wanna start when Muhammad expelled two tribes of Jews from Medina around 622AD because they would not convert to his newly created religion? His followers slaughtered 600 to 900 of the men and divided the surviving women and children amongst themselves

Ok, you must be talking about the Battle of the Trenches. Bet you didnt know that was what you were talking about though. What the Jews did to Muhammad was pledge allegiance to Muhammad then an hour later they all betrayed him and them and the Quraysh alike tried to kill the Prophet. What's the penalty for treason? Death. Even here in America the penalty it's death.

Read.

Ilimatic, if you are not NOI, then you should be. You manage to denegrate America and Christianity ala King Louis F. it seems in every one of your post. Tell me, do you think there are any followers of Jesus Christ and his teachings? Notice I did not say christians. Jesus is not a religion and belief in him is not a fad. A believer in Jesus would tolerate your belief in another as much as that one would not take your life because of it. Can you intellectually say that todays followers of Islam(some) practice the same tolerance?

I find Illmatic's comments about being paid back offensive, but I wanted to correct one statement made by JediMaster. That we (being read as the US government) have never committed mass genocide. You have overlooked the Cherokee and other Native American peoples. Please remember the Trail of Tears. Just because the US government FAILED at COMPLETE genocide, does not mean they did commit mass genocide.

Otherwise, I agree with your statements, and those of others. For some reason Illmatic thinks that he can stand in judgment (and I can't help but notice this is true for a great deal of the followers of Islam). Furthermore, I get exhausted by the myriad insinuations that the US has in some way mistreated the Arab peoples. I just can't find the evidence.