Think about it

I got this in my inbox from a friend, this IMHO a great message.

If you understood the history of "In God we trust" in the Pledge you'd understand why people want it scrapped from it, like me.

It was a manipulation tool Eisenhower used to demonize the Communists and to make people believe God was on our side and against the Communists.

How about saying, "In Allah we trust" Same God right? Let's see how those 86% would feel.

America is not a godly country.

By saying "In God We Trust" it pretains to all relgions that belive in God. God is same and same and the same, its just what you call God and see him as that makes religions differnt. Its the same God in all religions minus Satanism.

A while back I read something a Christian kid had given me and it had statistics for things that have happened to the American Schools ever since they took out the prayer. It was pretty bad of course, the stats were interesting. Was wondering if you have it.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
America is not a godly country.

I disagree. It's precisely because the US has so many gods that you are so unhappy.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
How about saying, "In Allah we trust" Same God right? Let's see how those 86% would feel.

I think would be sort of interesting, every few years they could print money with different god figures.

In Budda we trust!


America is not a godly country.

Sure as heck isn't but the politicans are acting like it arn't they.

By saying "In God We Trust" it pretains to all relgions that belive in God. God is same and same and the same, its just what you call God and see him as that makes religions differnt. Its the same God in all religions minus Satanism.

No...that isn't so. What if I'm atheist, or have beliefs that do not rely on a "god" figure? And all of this is beside the point. The phrase was never part of the original pledge. It was added (see Ill's comment, as I totally agree). God in schools has nothing to do with why there are so many problems now. It's a cheap trick. There are many reasons for the violence in schools, not the least of which, are lack of parental supervision, and increasing influence of the media as child rearers... If religions want to indoctrinate and brainwash children, let them do so on their own time and grounds, but keep them out of the schoolyard.

You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.

Anne Lamott

Originally posted by Gazrok

By saying "In God We Trust" it pretains to all relgions that belive in God. God is same and same and the same, its just what you call God and see him as that makes religions differnt. Its the same God in all religions minus Satanism.

No...that isn't so.

I disagree. The vast majority of the world has a belief in a higher power. "In God We Trust" is only a problem for organised religion.

In fact, that God in the statement could be Allah, Jehovah or whatever else you want to call him. The point is that it is a statement that pertains to the Supreme Being whoever he is and whatever your view is.
Even if you believe that god is an alien, an idea or you plain don't know, the statement can still be relevant.


That God is everyone's God. Shouldn't we all trust Him?
I don't see the words "In God We Trust" to be a problem as long as your definition of those words is right.

Sure it's not pertinent to atheists but in these present times there are not many true atheists around.

"In God We Trust" should be words that unite religions - not divide them.

I find myself in agreement with Jedi Master.

OK, seriously. That In Buddah we trust thing it a GOOD IDEA! haha

It's not about the fact that 86% or whatever believe in God. It's the fact that some people don't. This is supposed to be the country with freedom from religion. Remember that speech with the four freedoms? Well, when we say "Under God," swear ourselves into oath on a bible, and have "In God we Trust" on our money, that is defying our right to have freedom of religion. I am sorry, but I don't agree with the little lamb thing. This is supposed to be freedom from religion. We can't squelch yet another one of our freedoms. Just because you think it's ok to say that, it doesn't make it right to make everyone say that.
~peaceout

No your wrong. Its freedom of religion not freedom from religion. In the USA you can have any religion you want and you will not be persecuted (Unless you have human sacrifices). You can make your won religion, worship a peanut no one will stop you.

Gaz the lack of religion and morality is causing the violence, we have less problems in relgious schools than public ones.

I suppose we could name a number of different theories as to why violence, drugs, and haten inhabit our schools but can we find one that so closely coincides with the change as the removal of Christian moral teaching? I think not. Why, in all our technologic advances and advances in humanitarianism, is our public schools declining in morals and respect for life? I think the people that use the constitution to ban religion from schools do have a legitimate argument but that lends to the old question, just because we can do something, should we? Well, we have and we now have achools that ban Christianity(although they teach other religions) and along with it we are being forced to accept the increased risk that when we send our child to school, he or she may be a victim of a violent crime. To me, it was never worth it but I certainly hope it has been for someone because its cost so many children all they ever were or will be. We can often rationalize the effects of our actions away with empty justifications but the death of a child is a hard pill to swallow...even for the liberal.

Gaz the lack of religion and morality is causing the violence, we have less problems in relgious schools than public ones.

This is a gross assumption....

1. Who says? Personally, when I was a kid, there was far more violence in the nearby Catholic school, than the Public shool I went to.

2. If true, it could be due to other connected factors. For example, smaller class sizes, better student to teacher ratios, more discipline....and not attributed to the allowance of God.

3. Even if it is one cause, the others I mentioned in the post above are far more outweighing...

And no, saying "In God we Trust", etc. is NOT the same as saying, "Oh, well it could mean Buddha, Allah, whatever..." By calling it "God" you are referring to a specific, not a generic deity. When muslims pray, they do not praise God, they praise Allah...likewise with Hindus, Buddhists, etc. whereas Atheists and others may not accept the existence of any "God". The real bottom line, is that with the insertion of the phrases such as Under God, and In God We Trust, we are in direct violation of the separation of Church and State. To me, having "In God We Trust" on my money, or "Under God" in the pledge, is the same as printing "In Santa We Trust", or saying "Under Santa" in the pledge. In essence, its a mockery of my beliefs, and any others who differ from revering this "God" of theirs....

Why, in all our technologic advances and advances in humanitarianism, is our public schools declining in morals and respect for life?

Never before were BOTH parents working as much. Nowadays, you'd be hard-pressed not to see a family with both parents working. Compare this to about 20 years ago, and then 20 years before that. Kids get home from school, and they're raised by video games, and television....not a parent. The parents both eventually come home, and as both worked all day, neither has the energy nor the patience to deal with the kids....

THIS is the prime factor...not the absence of some half muttered lip service to a non-caring, non-responsive deity of fantasy.... Couple this with increased drug presence in schools (a by-product of the above issue, and a steadily decreasing budget for our schools), and you've got the recipe that gives you the current disaster...

People who belive in a God or Gods outweigh the atheists. The country was founded on Judeo-Chirstian beliefs, and so it should have Judeo-Chirstian morals in the goverment. In the Consitution now where does it mention Seperation of Church and State. Then what do you suggest we do with all the money that already has "In God We Trust' on it?

Without morals a country is nothing, the breakdown of the family is ruining the country. The liberals are destroying many of my rights. They say I cannot spank my kid, heck, my parents spanked me and I rarely question their authority. Spanking teaches the kid disipline. Sex is rampant is the media and in music. Look at kids who listen to rap and look at kids in the 60s who listend to Elvis. Big differance. Alot of kids mainly teens are sickening to me. We have a rise is sex outside of marriage, and more abortions. I am happy to see the pro-choice teens are becoming pro-life. Morals are basicly gone. Kids can go to "nude camps", (note these are not nudist camps, these are summer camps where you can be nude). People who say abortion is evil are blasted and people who say homosexuality is "normal" are accepted.

Originally posted by JediMaster
By saying "In God We Trust" it pretains to all relgions that belive in God. God is same and same and the same, its just what you call God and see him as that makes religions differnt. Its the same God in all religions minus Satanism.

From what I know about satanism is that you are your own god. Thats my take of what I learned a while back. It is that you choose your own destiny and youre your own god.

Correct me if I am wrong.


www.satanism101.com...

[Edited on 25-6-2003 by spubbles]

Originally posted by Illmatic67
If you understood the history of "In God we trust" in the Pledge you'd understand why people want it scrapped from it, like me.

It was a manipulation tool Eisenhower used to demonize the Communists and to make people believe God was on our side and against the Communists.

How about saying, "In Allah we trust" Same God right? Let's see how those 86% would feel.

America is not a godly country.

I don't have a problem with "In Allah we trust." My concern would be then the same as yours Illmatic; has not 'Allah' been used to make the people believe He was on their side in times of war, etc. during and in the history of the Miidle East? Do not the suicide bombers claim thus also? Do not 'martyrs' claim this?
Yep, I would have no problem with it at all. Could not one also postualte that The Middle East, in general is a 'Allahless' bunch of nations?

I ahve always heard that a door swings two ways; that a sword can cut both ways; that opinions are often two sided....does this not apply here?


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 25-6-2003 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by JediMaster
Gaz the lack of religion and morality is causing the violence, we have less problems in relgious schools than public ones.

Wrong.

You want the real reason why there is violence and evil in America. Even the greatest nation in the world has it coming back to them. Everyone reaps what they sow.

9-11-01? A Taste of America's own medicine. Right now, America is paying back for the centuries of atrocities it has committed in foreign lands, even here at home.

Illmatic are you saying that America deserved to be attacked?

What attrocities? Slavery was over 150 years ago, let it drop. We've never commited mass genocide. The Africans had slaves too, they enslaved their own people. And I hope you know the the Africans were not the only slaves. The Chirstians were beaten, enslaved and feed to lions in ancient Rome. The Jews were enslaved by the Germans, and murdered by the millions.

If people would listen to God, and would not sway away from him evil would not happen.

Yeah, Illmatic, be sure to send your thoughts and regards to those who did loss their lives due to your belief that "America deserved it for its past atrocities."

Like the America is the only one? BTW, who is the ONE who determines 'who' gets paid back? Don't you think they are missing a number of other nations?

Yep.... good point.

regards
seekerof