It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
A Study In Welfare,Liberal Ideology, Racism & Diversity
page: 8share:
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
Which drives costs up. But then again, Americans don't want to do these jobs anyways. Alabama found that out the hard way.
Maybe they don't because they feel like welfare gives them a better deal?
Why do hard physical labor for 40 hours/week for what you see know as chicken feed when you can do almost as well on a subsidized state income doing nothing?
This is the paradox of the social welfare state.
Cut the social welfare state, remove the illegal citizens who work under the table and receive free bennies for the citizen anchor kids while not being taxed on their low income, and suddenly those jobs Americans won't do because jobs Americans will need in order to make their living.
I think you miss a big point, when the idea, at least that most of us have, is that you want to include everyone in your area. When everyone is
involved it's better, more ideas, more sales, more marketing idea, more creativity, more markets, more job applicants, fresh perspectives and all of
that.
By area it could be your church, your town, your county, your state, your country, or your ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. We know that we're better off when everyone is involved and we include everyone.
I think you're taking it to the other extreme where we try to be too inclusive but for no good reason.
Think of it this way. if your a company and you only do business within your church, you're really missing a lot of sales. If you only hire white people, you're really missing lot's of good job applicants. If you only hire women, you'll miss half the population and we know that men and women think differently, you're going to miss all kinds of great ideas.
By area it could be your church, your town, your county, your state, your country, or your ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. We know that we're better off when everyone is involved and we include everyone.
I think you're taking it to the other extreme where we try to be too inclusive but for no good reason.
Think of it this way. if your a company and you only do business within your church, you're really missing a lot of sales. If you only hire white people, you're really missing lot's of good job applicants. If you only hire women, you'll miss half the population and we know that men and women think differently, you're going to miss all kinds of great ideas.
a reply to: amazing
The problem is that people see mostly applicants of one kind or another and just make the assumption that the only possible reason is that racism/sexism/ some kind of -ism is the only possible reason for that.
The pat reasoning is that people want to look at the overall population and see gross percentages of the population and assume that every workplace or smaller subdivided community within the whole must therefore be a perfect reflection of that larger population or else there are nefarious reasons why.
But in the end, it's not true. There are cultural, racial, even gender reasons why some groups, races, genders gravitate toward some jobs or activities over others. For example, no one looks at the population percentages and compares the percentages of ethnicities who rap and then calls the form racist because it is predominantly black artists who take part.
There are other examples, but we need to just accept that people are different.
The problem is that people see mostly applicants of one kind or another and just make the assumption that the only possible reason is that racism/sexism/ some kind of -ism is the only possible reason for that.
The pat reasoning is that people want to look at the overall population and see gross percentages of the population and assume that every workplace or smaller subdivided community within the whole must therefore be a perfect reflection of that larger population or else there are nefarious reasons why.
But in the end, it's not true. There are cultural, racial, even gender reasons why some groups, races, genders gravitate toward some jobs or activities over others. For example, no one looks at the population percentages and compares the percentages of ethnicities who rap and then calls the form racist because it is predominantly black artists who take part.
There are other examples, but we need to just accept that people are different.
OP,
I have a few more thoughts for you.
What exactly is the culture that may be watered down? Urban and suburban western style areas are being replicated everywhere, me and aforementioned friend are trying to figure this out. What people mean by this. I have been to Israel. My friend here has been all over there and I would say is technically an Egyptian, if you were born there, but if your relatives are US and Israeli, wait I think such people might be technically British (mandate of Palestine)...
Yes maybe we SHOULD discriminate and even go so far as to make everything as bureaucratic as we can!
And if everywhere is the same, and Jerusalem McDonald's have free wifi...
Oh I said she should emphasize that she was born in Egypt because there's a suburb of Cairo there called Beverly Hills.
What We Are: Western Suburban Girls. American Women. Who the Capitalists (anywhere) would like to see installed in a new kitchen, granite countertops!, with lots of babies, being a Suburban Soccer Mom.
I mention that OP - because I want you to think about something. I don't know you, I do not wish to be offensive, I am only thinking of - some ideas you may wish to consider. You, and all those who adhere to similar thinking.
I don't know either, what you look like, and I will guess that your avatar picture is some piece of artwork you found or created.
But let's say this. As a "hypothetical" argument. Let's say that women in your avatar pic was you. Let's say that's you.
For the prevailing Western attitudes (US, friend is poking me and saying EVERYWHERE!) - that "type" ain't gonna fly.
Red haired people are not tolerated anywhere, in US suburbia that'd mark you as either a hill billy or some kind of weirdo that dyes their hair. And those clothes? UM, NO. When the conservative men say they want an old style woman they really mean it and that goes for the clothes, too. The clothing on that woman is not acceptable. That's WHORE clothing right there! And I'm saying this is how you'd be judged in US SUBURBIA. Moving on to the rest of the pic - that whole thing looks a bit "goth" there - and surely you know that that stuff is not allowed. That's WAY too weird.
Everything must be beige. Your home, your clothes, your personality, your dog, everything. I am NOT exaggerating here! Friend wants me to relay a tale of an old school chum I saw on Fake Book. She married a guy with money, has three kids, lives in suburbia. Their house is beige. Inside and out. For some kiddie party they rented a pony for the kids to ride on and I immediately thought - even the beast you rented is beige!
WHAT A BORING LIFE!!!
And while you are thinking that others are "outsiders" - did it ever occur to you that YOU might be the outsider?
"Red headed goth women do not go in suburbia" - so sayeth my drinking bud here. And "That goes for anywhere".
There's a suburb of Cairo called Beverely Hills. This kills me!
Yeah, you people are so afraid of "outsiders" that it keeps getting whittled down, more and more, as to what is acceptable, and the next thing you know is that you're Stepford Wife and Biz Tool Dad. Living in Beige Land.
Be careful what you wish for. The more narrow it goes the sooner you'll be bounced out too.
I have a few more thoughts for you.
What exactly is the culture that may be watered down? Urban and suburban western style areas are being replicated everywhere, me and aforementioned friend are trying to figure this out. What people mean by this. I have been to Israel. My friend here has been all over there and I would say is technically an Egyptian, if you were born there, but if your relatives are US and Israeli, wait I think such people might be technically British (mandate of Palestine)...
Yes maybe we SHOULD discriminate and even go so far as to make everything as bureaucratic as we can!
And if everywhere is the same, and Jerusalem McDonald's have free wifi...
Oh I said she should emphasize that she was born in Egypt because there's a suburb of Cairo there called Beverly Hills.
What We Are: Western Suburban Girls. American Women. Who the Capitalists (anywhere) would like to see installed in a new kitchen, granite countertops!, with lots of babies, being a Suburban Soccer Mom.
I mention that OP - because I want you to think about something. I don't know you, I do not wish to be offensive, I am only thinking of - some ideas you may wish to consider. You, and all those who adhere to similar thinking.
I don't know either, what you look like, and I will guess that your avatar picture is some piece of artwork you found or created.
But let's say this. As a "hypothetical" argument. Let's say that women in your avatar pic was you. Let's say that's you.
For the prevailing Western attitudes (US, friend is poking me and saying EVERYWHERE!) - that "type" ain't gonna fly.
Red haired people are not tolerated anywhere, in US suburbia that'd mark you as either a hill billy or some kind of weirdo that dyes their hair. And those clothes? UM, NO. When the conservative men say they want an old style woman they really mean it and that goes for the clothes, too. The clothing on that woman is not acceptable. That's WHORE clothing right there! And I'm saying this is how you'd be judged in US SUBURBIA. Moving on to the rest of the pic - that whole thing looks a bit "goth" there - and surely you know that that stuff is not allowed. That's WAY too weird.
Everything must be beige. Your home, your clothes, your personality, your dog, everything. I am NOT exaggerating here! Friend wants me to relay a tale of an old school chum I saw on Fake Book. She married a guy with money, has three kids, lives in suburbia. Their house is beige. Inside and out. For some kiddie party they rented a pony for the kids to ride on and I immediately thought - even the beast you rented is beige!
WHAT A BORING LIFE!!!
And while you are thinking that others are "outsiders" - did it ever occur to you that YOU might be the outsider?
"Red headed goth women do not go in suburbia" - so sayeth my drinking bud here. And "That goes for anywhere".
There's a suburb of Cairo called Beverely Hills. This kills me!
Yeah, you people are so afraid of "outsiders" that it keeps getting whittled down, more and more, as to what is acceptable, and the next thing you know is that you're Stepford Wife and Biz Tool Dad. Living in Beige Land.
Be careful what you wish for. The more narrow it goes the sooner you'll be bounced out too.
a reply to: FalseMove
I'm so very sorry, I am lost with your post and not entirely sure what you mean
I haven't stated anywhere regarding "outsiders" ....Jeez I'm an old goth ffs
This post isn't about anything other than the failed liberal agenda to fix what wasn't broken, the dependency on the welfare state and the fact the it seems diversity does not equal multiculturalism but in fact creates self segregation and lack of social cohesion
If you could somehow clarify I'd be most grateful then I could answer whatever points you are making. Cheers
I'm so very sorry, I am lost with your post and not entirely sure what you mean
I haven't stated anywhere regarding "outsiders" ....Jeez I'm an old goth ffs
This post isn't about anything other than the failed liberal agenda to fix what wasn't broken, the dependency on the welfare state and the fact the it seems diversity does not equal multiculturalism but in fact creates self segregation and lack of social cohesion
If you could somehow clarify I'd be most grateful then I could answer whatever points you are making. Cheers
a reply to: ketsuko
The difficulty appears to be that very difference. If people are too different from those closest to them i.e. their neighbourhoods, it causes mistrust and a lack of cohesion. If those people also choose to self segregate and interact only with those similar to themselves, then the mistrust increases and the social cohesion is completely eroded. If we have mistrust and suspicion, we have what is loosely referred to as racism, however in actual fact its not racism, its not dependant on skin colour or superiority, it has been proven to be fear of difference.
Integration helps, assimilation helps 10 fold, but forcing these things creates divisions amongst the immigrants, therefore yo have to look at the position from the viewpoint of "Why are these people emigrating if they do not desire integration? If they do not accept our core values"?
The difficulty appears to be that very difference. If people are too different from those closest to them i.e. their neighbourhoods, it causes mistrust and a lack of cohesion. If those people also choose to self segregate and interact only with those similar to themselves, then the mistrust increases and the social cohesion is completely eroded. If we have mistrust and suspicion, we have what is loosely referred to as racism, however in actual fact its not racism, its not dependant on skin colour or superiority, it has been proven to be fear of difference.
Integration helps, assimilation helps 10 fold, but forcing these things creates divisions amongst the immigrants, therefore yo have to look at the position from the viewpoint of "Why are these people emigrating if they do not desire integration? If they do not accept our core values"?
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
I guess my point I was trying to make was made by Thomas Sowell. He cited an example of miners and mining jobs. I forget which group it was ... I think one of the groups that came over from Britain (the Welsh or Cornish?) who had historically been miners in their home country, so when they got to America, many of them were hired in the coal mines and quickly become supervisors because they had experience at it. By contrast, not many African-Americans were hired as coal miners and when they were, they did not often reach positions of supervisory status.
But there were more factors at work than simple racism.
1. The immigrants from the UK had experience and knew the job better than any African-Americans they might be competing against giving them an advantage.
2. Not many African-Americans actually wanted to apply for coal mining work in the first place.
3. Because of the experience advantage, it was easier for the immigrants to reach supervisor status. They had the knowledge base to build on already.
I guess my point I was trying to make was made by Thomas Sowell. He cited an example of miners and mining jobs. I forget which group it was ... I think one of the groups that came over from Britain (the Welsh or Cornish?) who had historically been miners in their home country, so when they got to America, many of them were hired in the coal mines and quickly become supervisors because they had experience at it. By contrast, not many African-Americans were hired as coal miners and when they were, they did not often reach positions of supervisory status.
But there were more factors at work than simple racism.
1. The immigrants from the UK had experience and knew the job better than any African-Americans they might be competing against giving them an advantage.
2. Not many African-Americans actually wanted to apply for coal mining work in the first place.
3. Because of the experience advantage, it was easier for the immigrants to reach supervisor status. They had the knowledge base to build on already.
Call me crazy, but isn't this why they have such strict rules at airports, regarding fruit and vegetables, so as to prevent an invasive foreign
species from taking root in our country and choking out the native species within the ecosystem? Common sense has died. For this portrayed image that
we are the most righteous and upstanding country which to me is an admission of guilt, regarding past crimes. For God's sake we can't even take care
of our homeless or Veterans. But by all means give the hospital bed to the terrorists they fought too.
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: PharoahSpiderMan
It is indeed, and I think to many that would be a quite good analogy.
This liberal agenda was started many years ago, but it is posited that it was as a reaction to people demanding Governments take care and manage them. The liberal mind it seems is passionate about victimhood, misery, suffering, neediness, exploitation, discrimination ad nauseum, and the people they see as occupying this "world" as the little people, the workers, the disabled, the unemployed, the victims, the wronged, the disenfranchised and they have spent years telling us little people that its not our fault we are unemployed, sick, obese, poor, unmotivated but its all the fault of Big Pharma, Big Corporations, Governments Wars etc and therefore we don't have to take responsibility....because we willingly handed all that over to the Government. Radical Liberals spout In Government We Trust and the only winners are the liberals themselves with liberal politiicians being seen as the heroes due to their promises of taking care of their constituents with providing for their every need(by taking from others of course) and to see Governments and Politicians as Mother Providers.
With this mindset, is it any wonder immigrants fervently want to migrate to the most liberal of countries? They are not forced to integrate or assimilate or even learn the language because they are "victims" "minorities" and "needy" just the kind of people the radical liberals require those agreeable to placing their trust in Governments' liberal values knowing they will be taken care of and continue to be a victim. What rational person or Government would want to prevent a community or civilisation from reaching their full potential? From moving forward and upward? From being successful?
It is indeed, and I think to many that would be a quite good analogy.
This liberal agenda was started many years ago, but it is posited that it was as a reaction to people demanding Governments take care and manage them. The liberal mind it seems is passionate about victimhood, misery, suffering, neediness, exploitation, discrimination ad nauseum, and the people they see as occupying this "world" as the little people, the workers, the disabled, the unemployed, the victims, the wronged, the disenfranchised and they have spent years telling us little people that its not our fault we are unemployed, sick, obese, poor, unmotivated but its all the fault of Big Pharma, Big Corporations, Governments Wars etc and therefore we don't have to take responsibility....because we willingly handed all that over to the Government. Radical Liberals spout In Government We Trust and the only winners are the liberals themselves with liberal politiicians being seen as the heroes due to their promises of taking care of their constituents with providing for their every need(by taking from others of course) and to see Governments and Politicians as Mother Providers.
With this mindset, is it any wonder immigrants fervently want to migrate to the most liberal of countries? They are not forced to integrate or assimilate or even learn the language because they are "victims" "minorities" and "needy" just the kind of people the radical liberals require those agreeable to placing their trust in Governments' liberal values knowing they will be taken care of and continue to be a victim. What rational person or Government would want to prevent a community or civilisation from reaching their full potential? From moving forward and upward? From being successful?
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
You are conflating a bunch of issues.
Looking to government to fix things isn't just a left thing either MAGA is the same as "with ̶l̶i̶b̶e̶r̶a̶l̶ politiicians being seen as the heroes due to their promises of taking care of their constituents with providing for their every need(by taking from others of course) and to see Governments and Politicians as Mother Providers."
FalseMove was right. How can you stand for individualism if you want to force everyone else to be like you?
You are conflating a bunch of issues.
Looking to government to fix things isn't just a left thing either MAGA is the same as "with ̶l̶i̶b̶e̶r̶a̶l̶ politiicians being seen as the heroes due to their promises of taking care of their constituents with providing for their every need(by taking from others of course) and to see Governments and Politicians as Mother Providers."
FalseMove was right. How can you stand for individualism if you want to force everyone else to be like you?
edit on 3-3-2017 by daskakik
because: (no reason given)
a reply to: daskakik
I don't believe I am conflating a bunch of issues personally, but this thread was a bunch of issues all of which I have tried to show are interconnected. Liberals do not want individuality, individuality means thinking for oneself and that is never good in a radical liberals' book!
(sorry not sure what MAGA is)
I don't believe I am conflating a bunch of issues personally, but this thread was a bunch of issues all of which I have tried to show are interconnected. Liberals do not want individuality, individuality means thinking for oneself and that is never good in a radical liberals' book!
(sorry not sure what MAGA is)
originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
I don't believe I am conflating a bunch of issues personally, but this thread was a bunch of issues all of which I have tried to show are interconnected.
Maybe they are not.
Liberals do not want individuality, individuality means thinking for oneself and that is never good in a radical liberals' book!
It would seem like those asking people to adapt to their culture are not doing that either.
(sorry not sure what MAGA is)
Make america great again.
OK, OP - you're an "Old Goth"? OK what I meant by that is that there are people who would discriminate against you - for that.
Discrimination can be a slippery slope, so we should be careful. There are people here in the US who would consider a "goth" type to be "subversive", gay, you might be lumped in with "the left", and depending upon the person or area - you might experience discrimination, turned away from housing or a job, or worse - some hot head type might get violent with you.
I recently just read elsewhere that the Swedish rape stats are wrong. I forget if someone mentioned that here. Evidently that's in error though and there's enough info on it that anyone can just look that up.
On "the left" being too open minded, I guess? Or eager to "accept diversity" - I can't speak for everyone but I think that some on the conservative side don't quite understand the L's take on this. Or being "non judgmental" of people.
It's not about coddling everybody, the way I look at it is - you shouldn't judge people because you could be wrong. It might not be a Muslim Terrorist! It might be just a guy coming out of a tan spa or something.
It isn't about giving a pass to everyone and anyone, it's just about stepping back to think a bit.
Discrimination can be a slippery slope, so we should be careful. There are people here in the US who would consider a "goth" type to be "subversive", gay, you might be lumped in with "the left", and depending upon the person or area - you might experience discrimination, turned away from housing or a job, or worse - some hot head type might get violent with you.
I recently just read elsewhere that the Swedish rape stats are wrong. I forget if someone mentioned that here. Evidently that's in error though and there's enough info on it that anyone can just look that up.
On "the left" being too open minded, I guess? Or eager to "accept diversity" - I can't speak for everyone but I think that some on the conservative side don't quite understand the L's take on this. Or being "non judgmental" of people.
It's not about coddling everybody, the way I look at it is - you shouldn't judge people because you could be wrong. It might not be a Muslim Terrorist! It might be just a guy coming out of a tan spa or something.
It isn't about giving a pass to everyone and anyone, it's just about stepping back to think a bit.
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
I'll clarify instead, multiculturalism isn't the problem, it's what's going on in the grander scheme of things that is.
AKA divide and conquer, left versus right, black versus white, you get the picture... What's really happening is the unfoldment of the globalists plan to do away with culture and identity all together, eventually anyway. But for now it suits to foment extreme ideas and herd people into one camp or the other...
Having people concerned about who is claiming welfare and who's supporting them through their hard earned taxes is a laugh a day when you consider the humongous pile of debt the majority of govs have got themselves in. That might I add can never be paid off. The measly bread and crumbs offered by welfare (unless playing the system) is just an incentive to prevent to much trouble and crime.
There is an end game going on here, but please everyone, don't get sucked in to picking sides.. All us ordinary slaves are in the same boat, so lets go after the rats when the ship sinks rather than each other.
P.s I intended to put that much better but the lag between my fingers and my thoughts got in the way
If you could somehow clarify I'd be most grateful then I could answer whatever points you are making
I'll clarify instead, multiculturalism isn't the problem, it's what's going on in the grander scheme of things that is.
AKA divide and conquer, left versus right, black versus white, you get the picture... What's really happening is the unfoldment of the globalists plan to do away with culture and identity all together, eventually anyway. But for now it suits to foment extreme ideas and herd people into one camp or the other...
Having people concerned about who is claiming welfare and who's supporting them through their hard earned taxes is a laugh a day when you consider the humongous pile of debt the majority of govs have got themselves in. That might I add can never be paid off. The measly bread and crumbs offered by welfare (unless playing the system) is just an incentive to prevent to much trouble and crime.
There is an end game going on here, but please everyone, don't get sucked in to picking sides.. All us ordinary slaves are in the same boat, so lets go after the rats when the ship sinks rather than each other.
P.s I intended to put that much better but the lag between my fingers and my thoughts got in the way
a reply to: ketsuko
After taking a DSS course to become a case worker, all I can say is that your totally wrong. Benefits vary widely state to state and some, like in north carolina, don't give you any monies. If you don't work, you can feed your kids and get healthcare (you still have to pay the deductible) and depending on the county get some help to pay your electric or rent but that's it.
And since you want to take away welfare, then take away all those benefits business and corporations enjoy as well.
Why do hard physical labor for 40 hours/week for what you see know as chicken feed when you can do almost as well on a subsidized state income doing nothing?
After taking a DSS course to become a case worker, all I can say is that your totally wrong. Benefits vary widely state to state and some, like in north carolina, don't give you any monies. If you don't work, you can feed your kids and get healthcare (you still have to pay the deductible) and depending on the county get some help to pay your electric or rent but that's it.
And since you want to take away welfare, then take away all those benefits business and corporations enjoy as well.
edit on 3-3-2017 by cenpuppie because: (no reason given)
a reply to: FalseMove
I agree and I have indeed been discriminated against for what I wore how I looked which proves the theorists point that racism as we are now defining it, is not based on skin colour or ethnicity in some cases, but differences between groups of people. This is why we have the "birds of a feather" scenario whereby groups stay within their own groups.
You're right again its not about coddling everyone, its about control and the taking away of personal responsibility
I agree and I have indeed been discriminated against for what I wore how I looked which proves the theorists point that racism as we are now defining it, is not based on skin colour or ethnicity in some cases, but differences between groups of people. This is why we have the "birds of a feather" scenario whereby groups stay within their own groups.
You're right again its not about coddling everyone, its about control and the taking away of personal responsibility
originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: FalseMove
I agree and I have indeed been discriminated against for what I wore how I looked which proves the theorists point that racism as we are now defining it, is not based on skin colour or ethnicity in some cases, but differences between groups of people. This is why we have the "birds of a feather" scenario whereby groups stay within their own groups.
Does being goth stop you from being american?
You're right again its not about coddling everyone, its about control and the taking away of personal responsibility
So if you are forced to be a suburban soccer mom it means you are free and have grater personal responsibility?
a reply to: cenpuppie
I'm not about destroying the welfare system as such, but massive reforms are needed both here in the UK and the USA. The War on Poverty started by Lyndon Johnson way back in 1965 (mostly aimed at black Americans) whilst well-meaning, is yet another example of a liberal ideology that works great on paper but fails in reality, due to not factoring in the human condition and psyche. When marrying and having a 2 parent home is not financially viable, when a person is better off being single with kids rather than having a man around, you end up with spiralling 1 parent families, which has the knock on effect of reducing the work ethic with no role model of a working father in the house.
The Welfare State has mushroomed to almost out of control conditions in the UK and USA and with so many means tested benefits available, it has corroded the family unit. See CATO Org Study in Welfare & the Culture of Poverty
This benefit culture actually creates the very behaviours and scenarios that the Welfare State was designed to alleviate with more poverty, more illegitimate children, single parent families and no incentive to work. Once upon a time if a woman got pregnant outside marriage, it was down to her and her family to look after the child. I remember in the UK towards the end of the 70's there were still Unmarried Mothers Homes where the girls went to have their illegitimate children in secret these however declined with the onset of liberal policies until eventually phased out as cruel & unecessary. The next step was acceptance of under age sex and resulting pregnancies. It was wrong to be ashamed, it was wrong to encourage your children not to have children out of wedlock. Parents were vilified for coming down hard on 14yr olds who were sexually active. Now we are in the situation where girls are actually paid to have children are re-housed and the hapless fathers are pursued for maintenance (child support in the US). A situation where girls see their mates having babies and see there are few consequences but actually quite a few advantages in doing so.
Conversation I overheard in the post office a couple of years ago between a girl in front of me with 3 kids and a girl behind me (talking over me like I wasn't even there). The conversation with repeating verbatim went along the lines of "Hiya haven't seen you in ages. I see you've another kid" "Yeah" says girl 1 "And another on the way"..."Cool" says girl 2 "You still in the flat though? You won't have room"? "no worries" says girl 1 "The council are going to re house me and coz I've another kid on the way I'll get 3 bedrooms"....The conversation went on for all to hear, no shame no embarrassment even when girl 1 suggested girl 2 go out and get pregnant so should could move to a larger house in another area as she hated the area where she was. It didn't matter apparently who she got pregnant to as she could just put "unknown" on the birth certificate. Nice system we have and that system being abused as it is, then fails the ones who really need help such as the disabled who always seem to get the rough end of the stick. The pot isn't endless and until we as parents accept responsibility as parents for our children and stop expecting the State to sort it out and taxpayers to pay, the socio-economic structure will not change
I'm not about destroying the welfare system as such, but massive reforms are needed both here in the UK and the USA. The War on Poverty started by Lyndon Johnson way back in 1965 (mostly aimed at black Americans) whilst well-meaning, is yet another example of a liberal ideology that works great on paper but fails in reality, due to not factoring in the human condition and psyche. When marrying and having a 2 parent home is not financially viable, when a person is better off being single with kids rather than having a man around, you end up with spiralling 1 parent families, which has the knock on effect of reducing the work ethic with no role model of a working father in the house.
The Welfare State has mushroomed to almost out of control conditions in the UK and USA and with so many means tested benefits available, it has corroded the family unit. See CATO Org Study in Welfare & the Culture of Poverty
This benefit culture actually creates the very behaviours and scenarios that the Welfare State was designed to alleviate with more poverty, more illegitimate children, single parent families and no incentive to work. Once upon a time if a woman got pregnant outside marriage, it was down to her and her family to look after the child. I remember in the UK towards the end of the 70's there were still Unmarried Mothers Homes where the girls went to have their illegitimate children in secret these however declined with the onset of liberal policies until eventually phased out as cruel & unecessary. The next step was acceptance of under age sex and resulting pregnancies. It was wrong to be ashamed, it was wrong to encourage your children not to have children out of wedlock. Parents were vilified for coming down hard on 14yr olds who were sexually active. Now we are in the situation where girls are actually paid to have children are re-housed and the hapless fathers are pursued for maintenance (child support in the US). A situation where girls see their mates having babies and see there are few consequences but actually quite a few advantages in doing so.
Conversation I overheard in the post office a couple of years ago between a girl in front of me with 3 kids and a girl behind me (talking over me like I wasn't even there). The conversation with repeating verbatim went along the lines of "Hiya haven't seen you in ages. I see you've another kid" "Yeah" says girl 1 "And another on the way"..."Cool" says girl 2 "You still in the flat though? You won't have room"? "no worries" says girl 1 "The council are going to re house me and coz I've another kid on the way I'll get 3 bedrooms"....The conversation went on for all to hear, no shame no embarrassment even when girl 1 suggested girl 2 go out and get pregnant so should could move to a larger house in another area as she hated the area where she was. It didn't matter apparently who she got pregnant to as she could just put "unknown" on the birth certificate. Nice system we have and that system being abused as it is, then fails the ones who really need help such as the disabled who always seem to get the rough end of the stick. The pot isn't endless and until we as parents accept responsibility as parents for our children and stop expecting the State to sort it out and taxpayers to pay, the socio-economic structure will not change
a reply to: daskakik
I feel you are being rather simplistic (I'm not american btw) I fail to see how you could be forced to be a suburban soccer mum. I also fail to see how being a goth would stop me being English (or American) You brought up the analogy I was simply acknowledging that and agreeing that discrimination exists all over the place but its not necessarily down to race
Not sure on your points sorry
I feel you are being rather simplistic (I'm not american btw) I fail to see how you could be forced to be a suburban soccer mum. I also fail to see how being a goth would stop me being English (or American) You brought up the analogy I was simply acknowledging that and agreeing that discrimination exists all over the place but its not necessarily down to race
Not sure on your points sorry
new topics
top topics
-
January 6th report shows disturbing trend (nobody is shocked)
US Political Madness: 17 hours ago, 22 flags -
Let's talk planes.
General Chit Chat: 15 hours ago, 5 flags -
Inexplicable military simulation - virtual reality showdown in the night..
The Gray Area: 17 hours ago, 2 flags
active topics
-
The Truth about Migrant Crime in Britain.
Social Issues and Civil Unrest • 19 • : BernnieJGato -
OK this is sad but very strange stuff
Paranormal Studies • 9 • : charlyv -
Meta Llama local AI system is scary good
Science & Technology • 43 • : Arbitrageur -
Gravitic Propulsion--What IF the US and China Really Have it?
General Conspiracies • 18 • : Lazy88 -
Musk calls on King Charles III to dissolve Parliament over Oldham sex grooming gangs
Mainstream News • 199 • : yeahright -
Judge rules president-elect Donald Trump must be sentenced in 'hush money' trial
US Political Madness • 38 • : network dude -
January 6th report shows disturbing trend (nobody is shocked)
US Political Madness • 59 • : network dude -
Greatest thing you ever got, or bought?
General Chit Chat • 23 • : DAVID64 -
ILLUMINATION: Dimensions / Degrees – Da Vincis Last Supper And The Philosophers Stone
Secret Societies • 12 • : Compendium -
Stuck Farmer And His Queue Jumping Spawn
Rant • 8 • : TimBurr