They Are Watching You..... It's ok, You Have Nothing To Hide.

If you have nothing to hide, then why is it a problem?

This is the statement that really grinds me. The idea that surveillance of citizens is the right of the government to sift through and store is preposterous. If you right now have the opinion that having everything you do stored and backed up is ok, then you certainly need to read the following.

Before continuing: The only reason for mass surveillance would be to stop 'the bad people'. As it were. To stop terrorist attacks. That is, this would be their main reason for monitoring such private data.

On July 2014 a paper was issued by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board. This paper where the white house itself appointed two independent commissions in the wake of Edward Snowden disclosures in 2013 to review mass surveillance. After carrying out this research, they found that even though they started this data collection since 2001, that its collection of sensitive data had never stopped one single terrorist attack happening. They also added 42 points that should be considered so that reform can occur to restrict the use of these powers against the American people, only 3 of those points where adopted by the President. (Allowing the rest would eliminate the use of executive power in Washington on its people)

Take a moment to think about the above paragraph. That its collection of sensitive data had never stopped one single terrorist attack happening.

It is known that when you start collecting data on such a large scale, the net of information becomes so big that the smaller details are lost. Seeing a perpetrator that is going to attack in a sea of information is currently a no go situation. The data cannot be sifted through, quickly or precisely enough.

Recently the FBI went on to make a point of encryption being utilised on the Apple phones. To some this may have seemed like Apple was refusing to aid the law in bringing to justice a criminal. What some did not see is that it was to aid the turn around of allowing yet again government officials the right to peer into everyone's lives. This was proved when Apple refused and still the Apple encryption was decrypted. Apple was not needed, it was a media stunt.

Most presidencies could in effect submit and realise that surveillance should not occur but neither president that stands in office wants to reject this data collection. Why? Because if they do and another Terrorist attack occurs, it will be on their head for why they rejected such surveillance. Politics of fear is the most persuasive and controlling element that is available to those in power.

The worrying part and yes, it should concern you very much. Is the point where the switch will be flipped. Where that data is used to its full extent and enforced to control everyone into keeping stability in a political system in check. A political system that is not in position for the well being of its citizens but for the well being of a few.

People don't realize how harmful invasion of privacy can be to people.

Just a generation ago, many men also thought rape was no big deal too, since there wasn't lasting physical damage. "Milder" things like sexual harassment at work were just expected to be accepted by women. It wasn't until there was a push to educate them on the devastating psychological effects that opinions began to change.

I unfortunately, at a young age, experienced political corruption and privacy violations. It's a horrible devastating experience. Knowing someone is always watching you is a creepy violating experience.

I just wish there were more scientific studies to show the harm to people when you violate their rights. As the OP pointed out, there's little to no benefit - so why continue.

a reply to: BlackProject

I believe that we have an inalienable right to privacy! And who spies on the spies? This is a violation of human rights and dignity IMO.

I completely agree. This country has been turned into a surveillance state where the average American is on video over 200 times a day, phone calls, emails, texts, et cetera are placed in databases and about 55% of the population seems to think it's all "ok." 😑😑😑

So it's not like us average joes can do anything about it so more or less this thread will be forgotten about. The truth is the average citizen and including myself lack the necissary tools to keep this from happening and already accept it as a fact of life.

All the way to the point where we get a phone call or agents to show up at your front door to intimidate or question us and detain us for "national security" reasons.

Good luck stopping that unless some real resistance takes shape elsewhere.

a reply to: BlackProject

If you have nothing to hide, then why is it a problem?

This is the statement that really grinds me.

Me too. Turn it around and they'd have a fit. Those elected representatives in "Public" office are the ones need surveillance, everything their corrupt fingers touch is against the law, they are deathly afraid of the people finding out so increase surveillance and oppressive police state measures to make sure they stay safe at our expense.

They hide and make laws that invade our privacy.

For our own good, of course.

originally posted by: Daughter2
People don't realize how harmful invasion of privacy can be to people.

Just a generation ago, many men also thought rape was no big deal too, since there wasn't lasting physical damage. "Milder" things like sexual harassment at work were just expected to be accepted by women. It wasn't until there was a push to educate them on the devastating psychological effects that opinions began to change.

I unfortunately, at a young age, experienced political corruption and privacy violations. It's a horrible devastating experience. Knowing someone is always watching you is a creepy violating experience.

I just wish there were more scientific studies to show the harm to people when you violate their rights. As the OP pointed out, there's little to no benefit - so why continue.

Your reply is a very important one and one that needs to be understood indeed. The point your making is exactly the one I wish to portray too.

That invasion of privacy gives no ability for people to change as people can and do change. Not allowing a nation to own up to its wrong doings and change for the better keeps a nation of people labelled criminals, when those very same people are those that tend to be trapped in a loop created by the broken down country they live in.

I agree very much your sentiment here.

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
So it's not like us average joes can do anything about it so more or less this thread will be forgotten about. The truth is the average citizen and including myself lack the necissary tools to keep this from happening and already accept it as a fact of life.

All the way to the point where we get a phone call or agents to show up at your front door to intimidate or question us and detain us for "national security" reasons.

Good luck stopping that unless some real resistance takes shape elsewhere.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: BlackProject

If you have nothing to hide, then why is it a problem?

This is the statement that really grinds me.

For our own good, of course.

That's the argument I just "love" Oh, it's for our "protection." Another personal "favorite" is, "Oh, it's for the children." You hear the latter argument in regards to any draconian law or policy that is laid out by our government lately. It's all a bunch of codswallop.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
I completely agree. This country has been turned into a surveillance state where the average American is on video over 200 times a day, phone calls, emails, texts, et cetera are placed in databases and about 55% of the population seems to think it's all "ok." 😑😑😑

Exactly, not sure if you know about a system in place called Trapwire. "TrapWire is a counter-terrorism technology company that produces a homonymous predictive software system designed to find patterns indicative of terrorist attacks." It is also used to record cctv information. ''While ordinary CCTV cameras are often 'passive' and monitored by humans, TrapWire-connected cameras, such as 'pan-tilt-zoom' cameras, are able to track people, along with license plate readers, called Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) from place to place.''

It has the ability to use facial recognition also. It can determine a persons face in a crowd and show alert phase that tells those using such systems that its you. No hiding from it. It does it automatically. Facebook uses this same feature to facial recognition, it can use databases like that to pull up information instantly about someone. Worrying, right?

Only if I had the money to create the best firewalls and a intrusion detection system around my home network and personal cellphone.

Alas, I was not blessed with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
So it's not like us average joes can do anything about it so more or less this thread will be forgotten about. The truth is the average citizen and including myself lack the necissary tools to keep this from happening and already accept it as a fact of life.

All the way to the point where we get a phone call or agents to show up at your front door to intimidate or question us and detain us for "national security" reasons.

Good luck stopping that unless some real resistance takes shape elsewhere.

You can remain anonymous from there systems. It takes very cunning forward thinking but it can be done. I know personally the steps needed to remain anonymous from their systems. It is all a matter of position. However still the 'average joe' should not have to choose, there should be no choice. People should have privacy without having to fill out a form to reject involvement.

a reply to: BlackProject

and now for the musical portion of our thread.

originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
So it's not like us average joes can do anything about it so more or less this thread will be forgotten about. The truth is the average citizen and including myself lack the necissary tools to keep this from happening and already accept it as a fact of life.

All the way to the point where we get a phone call or agents to show up at your front door to intimidate or question us and detain us for "national security" reasons.

Good luck stopping that unless some real resistance takes shape elsewhere.

You can remain anonymous from there systems. It takes very cunning forward thinking but it can be done. I know personally the steps needed to remain anonymous from their systems. It is all a matter of position. However still the 'average joe' should not have to choose, there should be no choice. People should have privacy without having to fill out a form to reject involvement.

"remaining anonymous" is its own flag though.

In fact thats why they invented surveillance, to see who's hiding from it. This day of internet gives the illusion of anonymity, but really typing anything and hitting return makes a permanent record if it, out there, somewhere.
Thats the whole idea. The NSA has everyones posts stored in a massive data center, they will eventually get around to focusing on the 'hiders'.

Ignorant people like myself that throw opinions out there without a care aren't what they fear, they know who and where I am.

Its those that hide they are afraid of, they want to know what they are really up to. Nothing , but thats their paranoia, the unknown.

a reply to: BlackProject

It doesn't surprise me. People say, "Well, as long as you don't have anything to hide, blah, blah, blah...." What the hell are you going to hide in this day and age? There are satellites floating around that can take a picture of a freaking ant hill and you can literally count the ants on top of the mound. Have had it for decades. What the hell are you going to hide? Yet, they try to "justify" wiretapping, biometrics, et cetera on top of it.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
So it's not like us average joes can do anything about it so more or less this thread will be forgotten about. The truth is the average citizen and including myself lack the necissary tools to keep this from happening and already accept it as a fact of life.

All the way to the point where we get a phone call or agents to show up at your front door to intimidate or question us and detain us for "national security" reasons.

Good luck stopping that unless some real resistance takes shape elsewhere.

You can remain anonymous from there systems. It takes very cunning forward thinking but it can be done. I know personally the steps needed to remain anonymous from their systems. It is all a matter of position. However still the 'average joe' should not have to choose, there should be no choice. People should have privacy without having to fill out a form to reject involvement.

"remaining anonymous" is its own flag though.

In fact thats why they invented surveillance, to see who's hiding from it. This day of internet gives the illusion of anonymity, but really typing anything and hitting return makes a permanent record if it, out there, somewhere.
Thats the whole idea. The NSA has everyones posts stored in a massive data center, they will eventually get around to focusing on the 'hiders'.

Ignorant people like myself that throw opinions out there without a care aren't what they fear, they know who and where I am.

Its those that hide they are afraid of, they want to know what they are really up to. Nothing , but thats their paranoia, the unknown.

I agree they do tend to focus on those that hide. It is not just utilised to detect those hiding however, it is for those they know about too. Data collection allows them to determine thought processes and when it comes to making the mass public choose what they wish them to choose, this data is utilised. Not just but partially used for. Those that hide however are not always going to have something to, as they put it 'something to hide' and thus it is just again a useless tactic of theirs. The more hidden we are however gives less flags for them to look for, flags that in their eyes are those people that do not agree with them.

Should look into echelon and RAF Menwith Hill which is based in England which, "provides communications and intelligence support services to the United Kingdom and the United States. The site contains an extensive satellite ground station and is a communications intercept and missile warning site[1] and has been described as the largest electronic monitoring station in the world." They record global communications with the diodes they use on the outer surface of there communication towers.

originally posted by: SpeakerofTruth
a reply to: BlackProject

There are satellites floating around that can take a picture of a freaking ant hill (in stereo) and you can literally count the ants on top of the mound.

There ... fixed it (a little bit) for ya.

Here's another tidbit. If police are equipped with such things that probably cost thousands of dollars, what do you presume these satellites that have millions of dollars dumped into them have? Radars "see" through walls.
But, it's "ok," right?

a reply to: BlackProject

I know what you mean but, people worry about their privacy while they tell everything about them in Facebook, with photos.

What was really "funny" is that in 2015, they tried to convince the populace that the NSA had stopped the data collection because it was determined to be illegal. It was bunk. It's still going on, just under a different more advanced system. Sti ll on going