US Education Secretary Betsy DeVos Blocked by Protesters From Entering a DC Public School

a reply to: strongfp

No answers I see.

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: strongfp
...

So because you chose to suffer means others who cannot afford college need to?

I see where this is going...

Also, do you know how much even just a BA will set people back now days? I think you are out of touch with the times here.

Irrelevant. The choice to go and to sign a contract is just that. A choice. An adult choice. Decisions have consequences. The price of education is irrelevant. If you cannot understand that, then I suggest you not buy a house either. Because, frankly, I don;t want to bail our sorry butt out when you cannot pay your mortgage an whine and moan about it being unfair.

The gravy train has stopped. Accept that. You will sleep better.

So a 17 - 18 year old entering the post secondary education system through not necessarily choice but pressure from society to better themselves is making 'adult' choices?
Just a question ...

What about people who are of the lower middle class?
Or below that, or people who lost their jobs and are in their 30's with no other skills?
Just another question...

And there is more options than buying a house, you don't NEED to buy a house, you can rent and have an invesment portfolio, just a hypothetical situation...

You are projecting YOUR life experiences and direct thoughts on a system and situational events varying from person to person here, just because you chose to not take debt relief, and spend 15 years paying it off and buying a house (I am assuming you have here) does not mean other people are in that situation as you were in.

I myself took debt relief when I went BACK to school, I couldn't go to school full time and work full time to support myself, so guess what, my government had my back and chopped off 40% of my debt. Is that so bad?

An 18yr is legally an adult.
An 18yr old can legally enter into a contract, and should be held responsible for that contract.
That is part of being classified as an adult. You should now held responsible for our decisions, right or wrong, good or bad. If you cannot afford an education directly, then you look to others for grants or low interest loans. Those loans are a legal contract, again, in which you should be held responsible.

As for your personal story. Your "government" bailout is coming form my paycheck. You do understand that concept, do you not? There is no free money. It comes from we, the taxpayers. Frankly, I am tired of baling out others with my hard earned money.

a reply to: Krakatoa

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you?
It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES!
Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

I gotta ask, how old are you?

Judging from you being out of school for at least 15 years, I take it you are older than 30.
Go take a look at how much student debt was back when you took out your first loan to pay for school, and look at it now.

Also, you aren't magically an 'adult' as soon as you 18, it's just a guideline for laws.

Your liver isn't, magically open to alcohol filtration when you hit 19 or 21.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: strongfp

No answers I see.

I replied to your questions, which were rather irrelevant to the video I posted.
It's not that she will personally 'destroy' schools and such, it's that she has zero experience in just about anything to do with the job, other than, I don't even know what.
It's also her personal beliefs on science and religion.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Krakatoa

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you?
It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES!
Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

I gotta ask, how old are you?

Judging from you being out of school for at least 15 years, I take it you are older than 30.
Go take a look at how much student debt was back when you took out your first loan to pay for school, and look at it now.

Also, you aren't magically an 'adult' as soon as you 18, it's just a guideline for laws.

Your liver isn't, magically open to alcohol filtration when you hit 19 or 21.

And, have you ever considered paying back some of that "relief" now that you can? Again, cost increases are irrelevant. I personally had to reinvent myself 4 times already due to market changes in the economy. I have trained my replacement 3 times (who were cheaper labor in another country). Yet, I still sacrificed things to work 2-3 jobs so as not to default on my commitments.

I guess that makes me stupid now, doesn't it?

You ask "is that so bad?". Sheesh. I weep for our future with this mindset of "I can't pay, Mr. Govt Sugar Daddy, bail me out" attitude.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: jellyrev

DC public schools are trash and have been for quite a while.

I wouldn't say their revenue is trash, their scores and actual education is trash.
If 30k per pupil can't fix it, then money is obviously not the problem. They are worried about their funding, when funding may not be the issue.

I don't think charter schools will change much personally, for better or worse. The students who want to learn may be able to escape and those who don't will become non-productive troublesome citizens like they always have.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Krakatoa

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you?
It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES!
Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

I gotta ask, how old are you?

Judging from you being out of school for at least 15 years, I take it you are older than 30.
Go take a look at how much student debt was back when you took out your first loan to pay for school, and look at it now.

Also, you aren't magically an 'adult' as soon as you 18, it's just a guideline for laws.

Your liver isn't, magically open to alcohol filtration when you hit 19 or 21.

And, have you ever considered paying back some of that "relief" now that you can? Again, cost increases are irrelevant. I personally had to reinvent myself 4 times already due to market changes in the economy. I have trained my replacement 3 times (who were cheaper labor in another country). Yet, I still sacrificed things to work 2-3 jobs so as not to default on my commitments.

I guess that makes me stupid now, doesn't it?

You ask "is that so bad?". Sheesh. I weep for our future with this mindset of "I can't pay, Mr. Govt Sugar Daddy, bail me out" attitude.

Let me ask you this.

Would you want one of your family members to be in the same situation as you? Maybe a close friend?

What if your partner or spouse or what have you ran into the same problem?

Would you just tell them to suck it up cry baby THAT'S LIFE.

OR pay maybe 30 dollars a year to make your country work more efficient and better your community?

I didn't ask for debt relief, but it was offered. Why wouldn't I take it if it's meant to help people live a better life?

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Krakatoa

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you?
It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES!
Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

I gotta ask, how old are you?

Judging from you being out of school for at least 15 years, I take it you are older than 30.
Go take a look at how much student debt was back when you took out your first loan to pay for school, and look at it now.

Also, you aren't magically an 'adult' as soon as you 18, it's just a guideline for laws.

Your liver isn't, magically open to alcohol filtration when you hit 19 or 21.

And, have you ever considered paying back some of that "relief" now that you can? Again, cost increases are irrelevant. I personally had to reinvent myself 4 times already due to market changes in the economy. I have trained my replacement 3 times (who were cheaper labor in another country). Yet, I still sacrificed things to work 2-3 jobs so as not to default on my commitments.

I guess that makes me stupid now, doesn't it?

You ask "is that so bad?". Sheesh. I weep for our future with this mindset of "I can't pay, Mr. Govt Sugar Daddy, bail me out" attitude.

Let me ask you this.

Would you want one of your family members to be in the same situation as you? Maybe a close friend?

What if your partner or spouse or what have you ran into the same problem?

Would you just tell them to suck it up cry baby THAT'S LIFE.

OR pay maybe 30 dollars a year to make your country work more efficient and better your community?

I didn't ask for debt relief, but it was offered. Why wouldn't I take it if it's meant to help people live a better life?

Again, I helped pay for your "relief". As for family and friends, I would help any way I could, and I have for your information. I would NOT burden anyone else for that help..unlike you.

Odd, you still have failed to mention your country of origin is Canada. Unless, of course, you soaked up all you could in the U.S. and now are suckling off the Canadian system?

originally posted by: mOjOm
So whether she's qualified is debatable.

Fine, that is your opinion and that of many others.

Go about it through the legal process then of the three branches
of Government. Violence will not serve a resolution to all of the hurt
feelings of the special interest groups.

They had their 8 years of lawlessness, its over.
And painfully so for them.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Krakatoa

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you?
It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES!
Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

I gotta ask, how old are you?

Judging from you being out of school for at least 15 years, I take it you are older than 30.
Go take a look at how much student debt was back when you took out your first loan to pay for school, and look at it now.

Also, you aren't magically an 'adult' as soon as you 18, it's just a guideline for laws.

Your liver isn't, magically open to alcohol filtration when you hit 19 or 21.

And, have you ever considered paying back some of that "relief" now that you can? Again, cost increases are irrelevant. I personally had to reinvent myself 4 times already due to market changes in the economy. I have trained my replacement 3 times (who were cheaper labor in another country). Yet, I still sacrificed things to work 2-3 jobs so as not to default on my commitments.

I guess that makes me stupid now, doesn't it?

You ask "is that so bad?". Sheesh. I weep for our future with this mindset of "I can't pay, Mr. Govt Sugar Daddy, bail me out" attitude.

Let me ask you this.

Would you want one of your family members to be in the same situation as you? Maybe a close friend?

What if your partner or spouse or what have you ran into the same problem?

Would you just tell them to suck it up cry baby THAT'S LIFE.

OR pay maybe 30 dollars a year to make your country work more efficient and better your community?

I didn't ask for debt relief, but it was offered. Why wouldn't I take it if it's meant to help people live a better life?

Again, I helped pay for your "relief". As for family and friends, I would help any way I could, and I have for your information. I would NOT burden anyone else for that help..unlike you.

Odd, you still have failed to mention your country of origin is Canada. Unless, of course, you soaked up all you could in the U.S. and now are suckling off the Canadian system?

Born and raised Canadian.

So no, you didn't 'help' pay for my education, and if you wanted relief I would be helping you as well, and your family, and friends. Can you see how it benefits everyone?
And it comes in full circle, helping future generations, infrastructure, education, etc, etc.
Remember what I said earlier:

And I payed taxes into the system as well, how delusional are you? It worked out for me, and it's worked out for MANY people I know who are now working decent jobs PAYING TAXES! Education = higher paying job, in theory, meaning MORE TAXES.

Education - 600 billion was spent in Federal Money in 2013 on education. Think about that. That is an average of about 13k per student. I have seen it as high as 20k and as low as 8k.

Now, a classroom has on average 20 kids. That means there is 160-500k per class that is allocated but remember the states and testing can decide where those funds go.

That much in Federal Spending per class and I still as a parent have to spend at least 30 bucks a child at the beginning of the year.

Blame charter schools and vouchers and anything else but it wasteful spending. A freakin joke. Then the populace wants to blame someone who never worked in schools but for decades gave millions to help just like the Federal Government. DeVos did not ruin school in Michigan they did it themselves.

Then you have the protesters who are as privileged as the person they protest no also. A joke. It is not about equality but hits on a Instagram account.

Rich privileged "Americans" are who are protesting...I do not see the poor kids from the ghetto or trailer parks asking for anything because those who protest would never give them a second glance.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Well, that's good you have an opinion even if I disagree with it.

I'd say banning refugees and people that are needing help is lower than protesting one government official who bought her way into her position from a single school. But I guess we see things differently don't we.

What happened to inclusion?

a reply to: burntheships

I still don't consider people blocking her from entering to be violence though. She just couldn't enter because of the amount of people blocking her way.

I've been in crowds that we so large I couldn't get where I was going and didn't consider that to be violence against me. I was simply blocked from where I was going at that time.

You guys are blowing this up to be some major violent act against here. Going for the old Poor old Conservative just trying to do their job sympathy play. Well, what can I say. I guess there isn't much sympathy for an official who was forced in against the will of the people.

8 years of lawlessness. Give me a break. As if the last 8 years were any different than any other presidential term by either cons or dems. The last 8 years were no different than the 8 before that or the 88 before those.

a reply to: matafuchs

20 per classroom??? Where did you go to public school??? There were no less than 30 kids in every one of my classes and that was over 20 years ago. There's more than 20 per classroom. There has to be unless you're paying for extra one on one teaching.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: rickymouse
Have the protesters arrested, they are interfering with government business.

Weren't you a defender of the Bundy Ranch takeover of Government land???

Hell no, those guys were too disruptive. I actually kind of sided with the government on that issue, it was government land and they decided to protect a frog or mouse or some little varmint from getting stepped on by a cow. I wasn't worried about the varmint or frog or mouse, but know that the guys were only leasing the land and their lease could not be renewed. If we let someone bully us because they are going to lose profits then pretty soon everyone will be doing that and most of us will lose our rights. Those kind of people will not stop at challenging the government they will also start infringing on our personal rights too. The Bundy's group were trying to bully the government, they could have just leased some land from another farmer or maybe made some arrangements. The thing is that the change occurred, the Bundy's should have adapted, we would have had to adapt. That is life.

Now, our government could have given them a year to adapt, but I think they were warned way before it happened but I am not sure of that. Usually the government sends out notices to people involved. Something like a non renewal of a privilege. It seemed to be in just specific areas that the thing happened. Maybe the gophers filed a grievance.

I evaluate every situation separately as it occurs, I do not like to choose sides without personal evaluation.

Everyone sees this was set up for a photo op for the protesters???? Whats even funnier is they cant even decide why they are there some protesting title 9 WTF????? All i see is a group that hates Trump so much they are looking for anything to get press. No one is doing away with public education and just because you didn't go to a public school doesn't mean you cant manage one in fact if say many principles would fit in that category. You want to know what this is really about? she doesn't agree with tenure and doesn't believe that just because you have been a teacher for a long time should protect you from not doing your job.

a reply to: dragonridr

Well, maybe since she's never been a teacher or an educator of any kind her opinion about what teachers deserve or don't deserve doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot either.

I mean if you want to know what it's like being a teacher, perhaps you be a teacher. This woman isn't involved and has never been involved in public education and now she's the head of it. If you don't see a problem with that then I'd say you're in blind worship over your Trumpism.

Conservatives loved to complain about Obama not having experience. That he was just a community organizer and that didn't qualify him for President.

But when it comes to Trump and his picking of people who either have Zero experience for their position or are actually against the entire system which they head, now they come up with the excuse that maybe an outsider with no experience is a good idea.

It's not difficult to see the flip flop just so you know. You're not fooling anyone with these excuses like they're some great new idea of how to run things. You're just making up excuses to stuff you've all protested in the past. Only this time you're towing the line for your party and acting as if this is such a great idea all of a sudden. I think when everyone can at least start being honest we might see some solutions. Until then however this isn't ever going to end so complaining isn't going to stop it.

Basically everything you complain about when a Democrat does it, you're now doing and acting like it's such a great new idea. Well, nobody has that bad of a memory and we all see what you're doing. Just an FYI.

Much of the same could be said for the Dems too. Just sort of flip flopped so don't think I'm letting them off or it's just one sided.

a reply to: mOjOm

My classes ranged from 12-35. usually 20-25. I went to public school. from 20 years ago to 10 years ago.
My hometown public school as of this current year spends 7750 per student, and gets slightly above scores for the state of michigan.
The student to teacher is said to be 18:1 as of today for that school.

a reply to: jellyrev

Wow that's quite a range. 20-25 seems pretty normal. Personally, I think around 15:1 should be about the limit for a decent education probably. One reason mine was so high is probably because I'm in Cali. Although I'm not in a big city or anything. I'm actually in a small city, especially back then.

Now where you are in Michigan, was that a big city population wise???

Anytime you start getting a class up around 30+ it just doesn't allow for much attention to the student. It's just too much for a single person to teach and control that many. Especially in public school where learning levels can be so different.

I can't imagine what a pain in the butt it would be to teach down in LA or somewhere like that. It must be total chaos.