Public vs Charter and Private Schools

It seems to me that you are getting a lot of answers and the big common denominator to all of them is that parents and kids are all different.

We parents know our children better than any public school system, or any private system for that matter, ever could.

And yet the system wants to cut us out of the entire process by making all the important decisions of where and how and what our kids should learn. Sometimes, that is a disaster. Sometimes, parents really do know better, and we should have a system that reflects that.

However, it is the endless mission of the state and the technocrats to wean the children from the family and into the loving arms of the government as soon as possible. So they make massive systems that are one-size-fits-all and too many fall completely through the cracks and people like the OP defend it all.

a reply to: interupt42

You really want me to put this bluntly? Back in those days, the classroom environment was conducive to learning. There were physical consequences if someone disrupted the class or became a constant behavior problem. If a kid back than said the F-word to a male teacher, the teacher would have grabbed them by the collar and jacked them up against the wall! The paddle was a deterrent for disrespectful and poor behavior. Parents back then didn't believe their kids lies when they got into trouble. Back then if my parents knew I talked back to a teacher, or I was sent to the principals office, I would have gotten it worse at home, and grounded for 3 weeks!

There's no serious consequences for these kids today and they know it!!!! They have no fear. I can't imaging saying F-U to a teacher back in my day, but students in inner-city schools say it everyday! You can't walk down a high school hallway without hearing the F-word repeated many times throughout the day. I remember back when I attended school, if someone acted up in the classroom the teacher would pull them out into the hallway and give them a couple of whacks! When they came back into the room, you could hear a pin drop. Nobody dared to disrupt the class the rest of the period. The chance of girls physically fighting was nearly non-existent. Most girls would frown seeing two girls fighting back then.

Students back than were not socially promoted to the next grade. If they couldn't make the minimum passing grade they were held back. If you were a constant behavior problem, you were expelled from school, never to be seen again.

So the answer to your question, back than teachers had control of their classroom environment. Which created a learning environments where kids would learn without the outrageous classroom disruptions we have Today! The teacher had their attention, and students knew there was a line they didn't cross. Today's parents have even lost their rights to discipline their own kids! I think a smack on the buttocks is nothing if it's going to keep a kid away from drugs or criminal behavior, not to mention a life in jail. I can bet you your last dime, if you look back at when schools removed corporal punishment, public schools went on a steady decline.

Common Core Math. I still do not understand what the hell they were thinking.

a reply to: eriktheawful

You and me both!!! It takes longer to solve a math problem using common core than the old way in which we were taught!! This is the part that drove me crazy about the system. I worked along with engineers like yourself, so I didn't teach by the book. I taught the most efficient way possible when it came to basic math. Why fix something if it's not broken? Sometimes I had to wonder who these idiots were who came up with these "new teaching methods?' Businesses run on efficiency. If someone is going to sit down and take 2 minutes to come up with the same mathematical calculation that could be done in 5 seconds, they're not going to last very long.


I think all of us were in the same boat with our parents when we needed help with the "new math." I was using math and trig on my job. So I was always able to help my son with his math homework. The same thing happened with my son that happened with yours. When I would show him easier ways, or explain things in an easier way for him to understand his math, he became an "A" student in the subject. Much better than I was back in the day.

a reply to: eriktheawful

I think Virtual Schools will probably be our future.

There can still be classrooms, but more monitored then actual teachers.

I'm very much against kids that disrupt other kids trying to learn.

I'f you aren't mature enough to behave yourself - - - I suggest a military type structured boarding school. It's time to stop the destructive nonsense in public schools.

a reply to: WeRpeons

I agree that has to do with it , but I also think our education system is not really geared to educate.

I don't think its the fault of the teachers, but rather the system and how its influenced with special interest and political influences .

I do think we need to look at a system that is not k-12 but rather based on the level of each subject and more time spent on the basics.

originally posted by: Kali74
America is going to be a shell by the time this administration is tossed out on its ear. We can toss out the old Public School models right along with them. Keep the system, fix the system.

It's really unreal.

What next?

a reply to: WeRpeons

Unfortunately I'm not very good with ELA with my son.

Oh, don't get me wrong: I'm perfectly fine with how they do spelling, vocab, and grammar.

It's how they want to go into literature. I read stories to be entertained. I don't read them to try and figure out what the "hidden meaning the author was trying to convey" is.

I don't have time for that. Tell me what is on your mind or GTFO of my way.

What message was Poe trying to convey in his short story, "A Tell Tale Heart" ?

Uhm....how that one could indeed tell a story that could convey feelings of dread, even with it being just a short story?

No.

Uhhhmmm.....just how crazy a person can sound who just killed someone for a crazy reason?

No.

Uhhhhh......how feeling guilty could drive someone insane?

No.

Then I give up. Most likely Poe wrote the story to sell for money and put food on his table. It was a good story, and a perfect example of how even if the story is short, it can creep you out. Now get out of my way as I've got more important things to learn that will actually help me in life, where as learning what some dude who wrote stories and died over 150 years ago was thinking isn't going to really help me how to fix radar systems. Did Poe work on cross field amplifiers? No? Thought not.....

mwahahahahaha.

So yah, I don't do quite as well there. I'm more concerned about my son simply reading (which he does) for enjoyment of a story, since too many kids in today's world depend so much on TV or YouTube for their entertainment. He does that too, but he also likes reading books by Tracy Hickman and Margret Weis (Dragonlance series), Richard Evens (Michael Vey series) and books by Piers Anthony.

ETA: forgot to add Fred Saberhagen. He ate up all my Book of Swords by him (about 8 novels) in about a week......thinking about getting him some of Dave Duncan's books (The Reluctant Swordsman and the Magic Casement series).

a reply to: Annee

I'f you aren't mature enough to behave yourself - - - I suggest a military type structured boarding school. It's time to stop the destructive nonsense in public schools.

Funny you should say that. I suggested that idea, but they administration considered it cruel and unusual punishment!

As far as the future of schools go, I think technology is going in the directions where information will be loaded directly into the brain. I can see a time where kids will be sitting in a chair with head phones while K-12 knowledge will be downloaded into their little brains. Parents will really lose control of their kids at that time, yikes!!!

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: WeRpeons

I agree that has to do with it , but I also think our education system is not really geared to educate.

I don't think its the fault of the teachers, but rather the system and how its influenced with special interest and political influences .

I do think we need to look at a system that is not k-12 but rather based on the level of each subject and more time spent on the basics.

Our education system went wrong when it was modeled by people like Horace Mann as a "factory" where the teachers were the floor workers and the students were "products" they produced.

Then we added in John Dewey who was a progressive who felt schools were a place for social change and not just a place for education.

a reply to: WeRpeons

While there are some issues caused by the students themselves, it isn't reasonable to claim that none of the problems come from the teachers themselves. Yes, there are some good teachers out there. I know some; some are family members. There are also a lot of very bad teachers, and they do contribute to the problems in many of the schools.









Searching under "teacher insults" and "teacher abuse" will net a good 157,000 such videos. This stuff happens all the time. Claiming that teachers have no blame in the issues in many schools just doesn't fit the reality.

Now, as I stated, yes, some students do also cause problems, and we can see videos of those as well. Blaming them, and politics, for all of it, though? No. Bad teachers do cause problems, and they aren't exactly rare.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: Annee

I'f you aren't mature enough to behave yourself - - - I suggest a military type structured boarding school. It's time to stop the destructive nonsense in public schools.

Funny you should say that. I suggested that idea, but they administration considered it cruel and unusual punishment!

I know. Tuff Tookies.

As far as the future of schools go, I think technology is going in the directions where information will be loaded directly into the brain. I can see a time where kids will be sitting in a chair with head phones while K-12 knowledge will be downloaded into their little brains. Parents will really lose control of their kids at that time, yikes!!!

I think that ones a ways off still.

IMO - - if you aren't raising your kid for HIS Future - - - you're not a responsible parent.

So many people still stuck in "once was" and "that's the way its always been".

People still hanging around in dead manufacturing towns waiting for it to "rise again". Not gonna happen.

originally posted by: ketsuko
*snip*
We parents know our children better than any public school system, or any private system for that matter, ever could.

And yet the system wants to cut us out of the entire process by making all the important decisions of where and how and what our kids should learn. Sometimes, that is a disaster. Sometimes, parents really do know better, and we should have a system that reflects that.

*snip*

THIS, right here, is the key! Parents should be the ones deciding the where, how, and what of our children's educations!! Parents who care will make sure their kids learn, and parents who don't, won't. For the latter, a good school won't make any difference. For the former, even a good school might not be the best choice. For us, we home school. The kids tried a year of public, and they hated it. Far too much homework, too much time wasted in school hours, and they didn't learn as much as at home. That was, too, in a pretty good school, performance-wise, and they had good grades. No serious behavioral issues from students, either. They read well above level, understand the math and science, actually enjoy history, and can discuss politics and government with more aplomb than many college kids, based on what we can see in videos online! They behave well, too, for the most part, and compliments on how well they behave, when we are out, are not uncommon. Our choices in their education are a large part of that.

Some students do well in public schools. Some don't. Some schools don't manage well. Sometimes politics get in the way, and bad policies. Some places have too many students who refuse to learn, or behave. And, yes, some places have some really bad teachers! Parental choice is always a good thing.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: interupt42

You really want me to put this bluntly? Back in those days, the classroom environment was conducive to learning. There were physical consequences if someone disrupted the class or became a constant behavior problem. If a kid back than said the F-word to a male teacher, the teacher would have grabbed them by the collar and jacked them up against the wall! The paddle was a deterrent for disrespectful and poor behavior. Parents back then didn't believe their kids lies when they got into trouble. Back then if my parents knew I talked back to a teacher, or I was sent to the principals office, I would have gotten it worse at home, and grounded for 3 weeks!

There's no serious consequences for these kids today and they know it!!!! They have no fear. I can't imaging saying F-U to a teacher back in my day, but students in inner-city schools say it everyday! You can't walk down a high school hallway without hearing the F-word repeated many times throughout the day. I remember back when I attended school, if someone acted up in the classroom the teacher would pull them out into the hallway and give them a couple of whacks! When they came back into the room, you could hear a pin drop. Nobody dared to disrupt the class the rest of the period. The chance of girls physically fighting was nearly non-existent. Most girls would frown seeing two girls fighting back then.

Students back than were not socially promoted to the next grade. If they couldn't make the minimum passing grade they were held back. If you were a constant behavior problem, you were expelled from school, never to be seen again.

So the answer to your question, back than teachers had control of their classroom environment. Which created a learning environments where kids would learn without the outrageous classroom disruptions we have Today! The teacher had their attention, and students knew there was a line they didn't cross. Today's parents have even lost their rights to discipline their own kids! I think a smack on the buttocks is nothing if it's going to keep a kid away from drugs or criminal behavior, not to mention a life in jail. I can bet you your last dime, if you look back at when schools removed corporal punishment, public schools went on a steady decline.

All very true!! That is one area where the policies and school politics are causing serious harm, to the entire system. even back in my school days, there were a few bad teachers (I had a couple of them), but students, for the most part, behaved. If we had acted up in school, our parents would have punished us themselves. A bad teacher, they would also address (and did). We didn't see fights in the classrooms, or hear bad language. And, yes, students who didn't learn were not passed!! That makes a huge difference. Even the best teacher can't do well in the sort of environment present in many schools. To be fair, that environment could be a contributing factor to the bad teacher issue, as well, as good ones won't stay in schools with problem students, leaving them with poorer teachers.

originally posted by: ketsuko

We parents know our children better than any public school system, or any private system for that matter, ever could.

I don't believe all do.

I personally believe we are who we are born. That my job is to steer him in finding what works for him - - in his world - - and the future world he's going to be a part of.

I am not hung up on any ideology that I think he should accept or fit into. But, some parents are/do.

There are some (probably many) parents that want to mold a kid into an image they've decided on. Or a belief they expect him to accept.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I've talked with student teachers from our local university who made a decision on the spot to change their majors when they've been placed into a classroom for the very first time. Their image of polite kids with their hands folded with smiles on their faces didn't exactly fit in with the reality of today's classroom. Not only do teachers have to deal with a students poor behavior everyday, they have to deal with them constantly using their cell phones in the classroom. In the school I taught at, we were forbidden to take a student's cell phone away during the class period. We had to notify the assistant principal to come down to take the student's cell phone away! Today's teacher's hands are tied.

a reply to: WeRpeons

And now the administrators call the police - - and the police show up to deal with the spoiled brat kids - - even sometimes handcuffing them and taking them to precinct.

And, of course, someone is always there with a cell phone video taping - - - and claiming police brutality.

Discipline definitely needs to be put back in the classroom. Not the corporate kind.

But, as said early - - I have zero patience for kids disrupting those who want to learn.

I still vote for a military type boarding school - - even if on a temporary basis.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You'll always have bad workers in any profession. However, it's much worse for teachers because they deal with children and young minds on a daily basis.

Talk about bad teachers!! My homeroom teacher "murdered" a beautiful young girl who was a senior back in '76. Strangled and raped her! What's outrageous, is he left another school district under questionable circumstances and was than hired by our school district! Talk about not vetting teachers before hiring them!

Now teachers and anyone working with young people in my state have to go through criminal background checks every 5 years. There are some very bad teachers out there and parents should call that to the attention of the school principal. Kids openly talk with their friends. If they say we don't do anything in Mr. L's class, or he lets us do anything etc..., that should be a red flag. There are some good reasons for unions, but other times unions protect workers who are not performing well. That could be an issue for another thread.

What I found outrageous when I was teaching, teachers who didn't teach and didn't complain never gathered much attention by the school administration because kids never complained, they liked a blow-off teacher! Teachers who taught and wanted their students to behave and learn the material would always get the occasional student complaining that the teacher was picking on them or complain about their method of teaching.

a reply to: Annee

I've witnessed a kid wrestling a police officer on the floor just because he refused to put his cell phone and head phones away! I really don't get where these young kids are coming from today. They definitely don't think of the possible consequences of their actions. The senseless killings for a small amount of money is worth them losing their freedom and rotting in jail for the rest of their life? Or lets video record our crime on YouTube and have no common sense that we'll ever be caught. There's nothing else to call it but plain IGNORANCE & STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

To be fair, that environment could be a contributing factor to the bad teacher issue, as well, as good ones won't stay in schools with problem students, leaving them with poorer teachers.

Teachers are only human too! There's only so much foul mouth and disrespect a teacher can take on a daily basis before teachers lose their cool. When you have to devote 20 minutes or more of your 1 hour class period addressing disruptive and apathetic behavior, the system needs to be fixed. There were times I had to walk out into the hallway just to calm my stress level.

It's bad enough that teachers get disrespected, but substitute teachers are literally verbally abused and treated like punching bags! When I retired from teaching, the first week school started I got a call from our district administration office asking if I was interested in being on the districts substitute list. I said "hell no!," I want to live a little longer to enjoy my retirement! Which the lady on the end started laughing and said "I totally understand."

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: Annee

I've witnessed a kid wrestling a police officer on the floor just because he refused to put his cell phone and head phones away! I really don't get where these young kids are coming from today. They definitely don't think of the possible consequences of their actions. The senseless killings for a small amount of money is worth them losing their freedom and rotting in jail for the rest of their life? Or lets video record our crime on YouTube and have no common sense that we'll ever be caught. There's nothing else to call it but plain IGNORANCE & STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, I'm with you - - the "hammer" needs to fall.

I am so anti-disruptive students - - - that disrupt those who want to learn - - - and who disrespect teachers.

Of course there are some bad teachers, but in that case students need to organize as a group and take it to a designated higher up.

Discipline and consequences need to be brought back in to school. (not corporal)

And NOT expulsion. What the hell does that accomplish?