Why Finland Schools Rank #1 In the World, and the USA Flounders

We have school systems in America that spend gobs of money on sports, high schools that have stadiums better than most Ivy league College Campuses. They fill these stadiums every Friday night to 50 to 60 thousand fans chanting and cheering the hometown team to a victory, sports makes them money.

Tuesday night when it is time for the weekly PTA meeting, its hard to fill a room that can hold 25 people and teachers draw straws to see who "has" to attend. Parents do not wish to be a part of the education of their children and teachers are so underpaid and over worked that they have little interest in assuring children learn. We basically have an expensive baby sitting service in America.

I am over generalizing but it is true to a point. We have some real challenges in our school systems, everything from behavior issues, money woes, to some schools faced with more than 85 languages spoken among the student population. We do need to look outside to find answers and solutions but first must admit we have a problem, then get real about it.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I suspect they're based on good plain old education, whereas here the system is more bent on social engineering than actual education. A citizenry just smart enough to pump the gas, but not know how the gas pump actually works is the general model. Oh, and lots of skin, hair and fashion products.

You get out of school what you want. If you're motivated you can take harder advanced classes. The only social engineering that goes on is the kind weak minds allow to take root.

a reply to: eluryh22

Basically this.

Yeah, I know, I know, we send our kids to a private school so he's getting indoctrinated, but at times, I forget he's at a religious school. All the work that comes home in his folder is reading, writing and math. It's only when he sings what he's learning in music or we see the subject on his report card that we remember the Bible component.

The religion aspect takes a backseat to the academics. It's just the setting/ambiance, not the prime driver or reason for the school's existence.

And let's be plain, if you are relying on highly educated parents to spend thousands on tuition per year with you, you have to show results. Professional adults don't get that way without educations of their own.

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I suspect they're based on good plain old education, whereas here the system is more bent on social engineering than actual education. A citizenry just smart enough to pump the gas, but not know how the gas pump actually works is the general model. Oh, and lots of skin, hair and fashion products.

You get out of school what you want. If you're motivated you can take harder advanced classes. The only social engineering that goes on is the kind weak minds allow to take root.

And this is why we have kids who are functionally illiterate but know the 57 or however many it is now genders?

originally posted by: Realtruth
It wasn't long ago that the USA and Finland were neck and neck regarding their educational systems, then within about a 20 year span they ranked #1, and the USA was left behind like a turd in the toilet. The question all of us should be asking is Why? and How?

What exact basis do they use to determine ranking?

What are the criteria's?

The entire country of Finland is about the size of California.

How do you realistically compare the two countries?

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

This is the absolute key and I've said it for years. Education is not to teach you what to think. I can train a dog to think the way I want.

The problem is if they teach students how to think they might not be blindly leftist. That is forbidden.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I suspect they're based on good plain old education, whereas here the system is more bent on social engineering than actual education. A citizenry just smart enough to pump the gas, but not know how the gas pump actually works is the general model. Oh, and lots of skin, hair and fashion products.

You get out of school what you want. If you're motivated you can take harder advanced classes. The only social engineering that goes on is the kind weak minds allow to take root.

And this is why we have kids who are functionally illiterate but know the 57 or however many it is now genders?

So they don't teach kids to read anymore in school?

Can you link to a school district's curriculum where it clearly shows that reading isn't taught but "57 genders" are?

The premise is based on false notions. people simply have bothered to look into what "school" is and what it is supposed to be.

The American School System, whereby by the GOVERNMENT pays for your child's education works perfectly. Yes, you read that right, it works too perfection, exactly how it was designed.

If the government does the educating the government sees that it gets what it wants, not what YOU want. So when Carnegie-Rockefeller created the school system they wanted a system that took those who could not afford a private education and trained them for the jobs industry needed(s), not to make them smart. Especially not smart enough to challenge those who have the desirable jobs already, after all what idiot wants to be replaced just because a young kid is smart? You'd be a fool, a complete dofus to encourage a system to train your replacements to replace you before you are dead.

So, currently the government has determined that the US needs, truck drivers, military personnel, food service, retail and the like. Since the government determined the need for Engineers by the millions was over, they stopped encouraging it. They now, very calculatedly, determine the need x number of soldiers, so in areas where they are likely to get soldiers they drive down education to reflect a live where being a soldier is seen as a way out. The need baristas so they work to educate...

Now, take Norway and compare their educated to the privately educated in the US and you'll get very different results. This system works to perfection, the problem is folks seem to fail to grasp the reason for the system, if they did they'd understand that if you hand over your child to the state to educate the child you get what the state wants and not what you want.

Of course, there is hope, you are free to educate your child in the private school sector, but of course, you need money to do that and well...

originally posted by: Aeshma
a reply to: eluryh22

Im glad you pay for private school. Your children aill finally get an education equal to the uk, australia or canada.... bad news is those countrys have free education and it far surpasses the us private sector... i mean wait murkahhhh jesus ... piss beer... hoo ahhhhh!

We get it. You've been heard.

originally posted by: DJMSN
We have school systems in America that spend gobs of money on sports, high schools that have stadiums better than most Ivy league College Campuses. They fill these stadiums every Friday night to 50 to 60 thousand fans chanting and cheering the hometown team to a victory, sports makes them money.

Tuesday night when it is time for the weekly PTA meeting, its hard to fill a room that can hold 25 people and teachers draw straws to see who "has" to attend. Parents do not wish to be a part of the education of their children and teachers are so underpaid and over worked that they have little interest in assuring children learn. We basically have an expensive baby sitting service in America.

I am over generalizing but it is true to a point. We have some real challenges in our school systems, everything from behavior issues, money woes, to some schools faced with more than 85 languages spoken among the student population. We do need to look outside to find answers and solutions but first must admit we have a problem, then get real about it.

Outstanding post. Problem is parents are controlling education. The biggest problem is they have no degree in education nor any real world experience.

Denny

I have a unpopular opinion among conservative radicals and progressives alike:

To many people are having kids that shouldn't have kids.

I get hate from everyone for that opinion and belief. I get it from Trump people and Elizabeth Warren lovers.

People, be parents to your children. Spend time with them. Read to them. Enrich their minds outside of the classroom. School isn't the only place your child is supposed to learn things.

"But what about us busy parents working two jobs!"

Well, you should have asked yourself if you were really in a position to have kids before you did, working two jobs and all.

"Well I didn't exactly PLAN to have kids!"

Well, there are things like IUDs and very effective forms of birth control that prevent unwanted pregnancies without even having to entertain the "A" word.

Humans need to stop breeding like rabbits, as if we are still trying to revive a population on the brink of destruction.

We need to focus on fixing the economy so people don't have to work 2-3 jobs and not have any time for their kids. When we can do that, when people can have time to spend with their young....we'll find more well-adjusted humans who feel like they're wanted, cared about, and better educated. Crime will drop as a side effect as well.

So, despite whatever you may think about me. I hold some pretty unpopular beliefs about people having kids.

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I suspect they're based on good plain old education, whereas here the system is more bent on social engineering than actual education. A citizenry just smart enough to pump the gas, but not know how the gas pump actually works is the general model. Oh, and lots of skin, hair and fashion products.

You get out of school what you want. If you're motivated you can take harder advanced classes. The only social engineering that goes on is the kind weak minds allow to take root.

That's it!

It's there. Education is 100% available in American public education.

What do they say about some Asian kids? They go to school, then they come home to school?

And now, with the internet - - everything is at your fingertips.

Sadly, some parents at my kids school - - are mad because their kids bring school work home. They think everything should be learned in class and is 100% the responsibility of the teacher/school.

a reply to: Realtruth


Part of the problem besides lobbyist not wanting to fix the system they created . is that the system purposely overlooks reality. The reality is most kids aren't alike or are able to learn at the same pace or via the same methods. We also force to much information at young age and DON't deal with the basics long enough.

We need to look at programs that caters to the kids educational needs versus forcing them into a system that caters to no one.

We need to forget the K-12 system and create a system where little johnny can be in 1st grade Math but in 5 grade English. These kids aren't getting the basics down and then are pushed through the system and will likely struggle through their whole life.

Getting the basics is the most important thing for all subjects.

I remember in college taking principles for Electrical Engineers where it had a high failing rate even with the curve and not well liked teachers.

I signed up for it and found out that we got a new temporary teacher . The first day in class he said that we are going to cover chapters 1-2 in the first 3 quarters than chapters 3-12 in the last quarter. The class was like WTF are you nuts. He said that once you get the basics down the rest is simple extensions of the basics. He was 100% correct , we were the only class where everyone passed with a grade of C or better with no curve required.

I have found that simple principle to be true in most of my other subjects.

I remember talking with a teacher who stated that most students in Calc 1,2,3 and differential equations struggled not because of the Calc or the Dif Eq but because they didn't have a good enough grasp of Algebra.


But F that. Murica We are number 1.

I don't know what the answer is to our #ty education system, but I will say this:

I am a teacher, and year after year, the kids' attention spans get shorter and effing shorter. Furthermore, many kids, if they don't get something perfect right away, like the first time they try it, they whine and give up. It's astonishing and frightening to see this.

I am sure that technology is somewhat to blame; they are used to their computers and smart phones and instant gratification. But it's gotta be more than just that, and I suspect it's partly how our culture has devolved into this weird-ass place where discomfort is avoided at all costs.

The difference in work ethic, learning ethic, and personal responsibility, that I see from my generation to this one is scary. Clearly, it's natural for every older generation to say that. Our grandparents thought we were lazy and coddled because we got to walk to school with actual shoes on. But it really is a thing, now, with the way technology and society/parenting has evolved. I'm 41. I've been teaching for over 20 years, and I've noticed the kids turning into these lazy, fragile monsters in exponential numbers the past ten years especially. It's scary.

originally posted by: Kettu
I have a unpopular opinion among conservative radicals and progressives alike:

To many people are having kids that shouldn't have kids.



I get hate from everyone for that opinion and belief. I get it from Trump people and Elizabeth Warren lovers.

People, be parents to your children. Spend time with them. Read to them. Enrich their minds outside of the classroom. School isn't the only place your child is supposed to learn things.

"But what about us busy parents working two jobs!"

Well, you should have asked yourself if you were really in a position to have kids before you did, working two jobs and all.

"Well I didn't exactly PLAN to have kids!"

Well, there are things like IUDs and very effective forms of birth control that prevent unwanted pregnancies without even having to entertain the "A" word.

Humans need to stop breeding like rabbits, as if we are still trying to revive a population on the brink of destruction.

We need to focus on fixing the economy so people don't have to work 2-3 jobs and not have any time for their kids. When we can do that, when people can have time to spend with their young....we'll find more well-adjusted humans who feel like they're wanted, cared about, and better educated. Crime will drop as a side effect as well.

So, despite whatever you may think about me. I hold some pretty unpopular beliefs about people having kids.

I agree if that makes ya feel better. Won't go deep as that may lead to trouble. The system certainly is interesting. Just wish I really got it.

Denny

ACtually, i could go into it as a former professional educator, the "why," if you are interested.

In much of the school systems liberal arts is considered a waste, I guess because the term "Liberal" seemed too political?? ..and the down grade started with ketchup as a vegetable mindset crowd, then there is this effort in some corner for killing public schools by making them so bad then instituting private one with vouchers ..look who is the pick for education, a lady who had never taught a day in her life, failed at her hearing so badly that two Reps crossed party lines, and this lady is anti- public school to boot...it's bad because it's in someone financial interest to make them fail.

a reply to: ketsuko

Education should definitely take the front seat but I would hope you aren't embarrassed that your children are in a religious school.

Kids, even the little ones, are people and in between math class, English class, history and science... they seek more.

I'd rather they come home from school (like mine does in his folder) with "dreadful" religious stuff about how "We should appreciate all of our gifts" than what is the contemporary alternative.

Although I wish no harm on those with "alternative" lifestyles, I'm glad when I open my kid's folder I find lessons on mathematics and some worksheets geared towards being thankful for our gifts..... rather than trying to explain why there is a book called "One Dad, Two Dads, Brown Dad, Blue Dad."

Yes. That's a thing.

a reply to: Spider879

Liberal Arts is only considered a waste on the collegiate level because it is, essentially, a degree in nothing.

You focusing on the world "liberal" makes me wonder exactly what point you are trying to make....?

I think we MIGHT agree on private schools.... but your pose was essentially one run-on sentence so it's hard to figure out where you are coming from.

well, if they took the money here that the spend on making the schools look appeasing to the kids and spent that money on education then the kids would learn more. You would be surprised how the schools are trying to make things look good to the parents. We sat in uncomfortable chairs at desks or folding tables. Schools were for learning, not social interacting. I think we created a society monster that has lost rationality.