Mexico president cancels Trump summit as wall jibe deepens spat

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Orwells Ghost
If "cheap" Mexican goods suddenly cost more to import then the USA simply buys domestically, creating jobs, boosting the local economy, and creating more tax revenue to fund infrastructure projects, including the wall; All of which helps Trump further his agenda and continue to make good on his campaign promises and has the side effect of helping Americans. C'mon guys, this is basic stuff.

And prices rise, leaving people unable to purchase as much as they did previously.

All those communists who hate Capitalism and corporations can suck it up now. You know, being that they hate how corporations go to foreign countries to exploit poor third world peoples and all .....

originally posted by: VimanaExplorer
Most of the manufacturing jobs in the US are gone forever. it is not that easy to retool the machinery overnight and start producing goods.

The wall is wasteful, instead spend that money towards manufacturing sector. It is 2017, there are better way to enforce existing immigration laws. NSA is keeping track of every citizen, banks are keeping track of every transaction of US citizens, and they are telling us Wall is the only way to prevent illegal immigration?

A bunch of negative spin. Get it from CNN? Gone forever? Says who....0h oh Trump could never win the election blah blah blah

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: burdman30ott6

We eliminate NAFTA and build the wall and the savings on eliminating all of those illegals from America's social spending programs combined with the tariffs on Mexican imports and return of many jobs to the US from Mexico will pay for that wall... Who presently benefits from that social spending and those jobs? Mexico does, obviously. The $100 Billion+ annual tax payer expense to feed, educate, incarcerate, and medically care for all of those illegal aliens is $100 Billion+ Mexico doesn't have to spend on their escapees and the $64 Billion annual US losses thanks to NAFTA are presently $64 Billion additional dollars into Mexico's economy.

Actually, it appears that we may need illegal/undocumented worked to help bolster our social services programs.

The truth is that undocumented immigrants contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits. Take Social Security. According to the Social Security Administration (SSA), unauthorized immigrants -- who are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits -- have paid an eye-popping $100 billion into the fund over the past decade. "They are paying an estimated $15 billion a year into Social Security with no intention of ever collecting benefits," Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA told CNNMoney. "Without the estimated 3.1 million undocumented immigrants paying into the system, Social Security would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover payouts starting in 2009," he said. As the baby boom generation ages and retires, immigrant workers are key to shoring up Social Security and counteracting the effects of the decline in U.S.-born workers paying into the system, Goss said. Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.

A 2013 CBO analysis of the failed bipartisan bill introduced by the so-called "gang of 8" that would have created a path to legal status for many undocumented immigrants found that increasing legal immigration would increase government spending on refundable tax credits, Medicaid and health insurance subsidies, among other federal benefits. But it would also create even more tax revenue by way of income and payroll taxes. That could reduce deficits by $175 billion over the first 10 years and by at least $700 billion in the second decade. ITEP estimates that allowing certain immigrants to stay in the country and work legally would boost state and local tax contributions by $2 billion a year.

Also:

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

Please read up at the link. This issue is more complicated than people like to make it out to be.

Mexico is in the weaker position, but they are in a "symbiotic" relationship with the US and while we may like to pound our chests because we are the big dog on the block, we may be only hurting ourselves in the end for no logical reason.

money.cnn.com...

Sorry, you disqualified yourself with the link to a fake news site.

a reply to: Byrd

OMG!

Somebody has finally stumped the Trump! (they didn't).

a reply to: mzinga

If Mexican's add the 20% to the price of their products, U.S. companies will sell competitive products made by U.S. workers.

The wall's purpose is to block illegals from freely crossing the border like they do now.

It's working well between India and Pakistan. You might try Googling it.

Wait... here's a link:

www.universetoday.com...

originally posted by: Byrd
Countries don't "play ball" like corporations or individuals. I don't know why Trump thought Mexico would come tamely to the table and pay for the wall (it's obvious they won't) - but Nieto just showed that he also plays hardball.

Mexico president cancels Trump summit as wall jibe deepens spat
By Miguel Gutierrez and Steve Holland

MEXICO CITY/PHILADELPHIA, Jan 26 (Reuters) - Mexico's president on Thursday scrapped a planned summit with Donald Trump in the face of insistent tweets from the U.S. president demanding Mexico pay for a border wall, a deepening spat that threatens Mexican efforts to salvage trade ties.

However the White House left open the door for a possible rapprochement. White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the United States was keeping open lines of communication with Mexico and looking to reschedule the meeting.

Taking a page out of Trump's playbook, President Enrique Pena Nieto fired the salvo on Twitter, after Trump's call for Mexico to foot the bill for his planned wall prompted a groundswell of calls in Mexico for next week's meeting to be called off.

source

Nieto is also using Weapons Of Mass Twittering in this fight, which is better than other options. Mind you, this is a silly way to achieve transparency in government communications, but...

...in any case, the result is that Trump isn't getting what he said he wanted.

WOW! You know absolutely nothing about negotiation. This was a win for Trump...not a loss. But you are obviously too ignorant or so ingrained against Trump to realize or admit it. They will have no choice but to fund the wall and Mexico is so dependent upon us and the drug gangs down there...they will submit easily. Otherwise...they will shrivel and die in the desert they created.

Huge win for Trump!

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Byrd

I always took his announcement that Mexico would pay as nothing more than a slogan for his followers. That worked and when Nieto first said that they would not, Trump augmented his line to, well we will fund it and then later they will pay us back. And that sat well with his followers also.

Now he is going ahead with the wall, so he says, and they are all happy. He never believed that Mexico would pay for the wall. Ever.

Are you really that stupid? I mean...when a person says that another person will pay for something they obviously don't want to, do you actually expect they will walk into the White House with a checkbook and write a check like a brain-dead zombie? Of course not. They will pay for the problem they created in other, technical ways. Taxes, tariffs, etc.

You aren't that dumb to think otherwise...are you?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKEwhen a person says that another person will pay for something they obviously don't want to, do you actually expect they will walk into the White House with a checkbook and write a check like a brain-dead zombie?

The US is ENTITLED to the Mexican money to build the wall. All those Mexicans who crossed the border illegally alleviated a need in Mexico for those welfare dollars to be spent there, and created a drain on welfare dollars and policing criminal activities and housing them in the prisons.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Byrd

I always took his announcement that Mexico would pay as nothing more than a slogan for his followers. That worked and when Nieto first said that they would not, Trump augmented his line to, well we will fund it and then later they will pay us back. And that sat well with his followers also.

Now he is going ahead with the wall, so he says, and they are all happy. He never believed that Mexico would pay for the wall. Ever.

Are you really that stupid? I mean...when a person says that another person will pay for something they obviously don't want to, do you actually expect they will walk into the White House with a checkbook and write a check like a brain-dead zombie? Of course not. They will pay for the problem they created in other, technical ways. Taxes, tariffs, etc.

You aren't that dumb to think otherwise...are you?

Nor am I stupid or dumb enough to walk into a conservation with some one and immediately call them stupid and dumb.

You say that Mexico will pay for the problem that they created. Yet has it not been demonstrated that many of the people crossing the border illegally are not from Mexico but from further south? So how is that a problem that Mexico created.?

And then you say they will pay in other ways, taxes tariffs, etc. Is Mexico now subject to US taxes? And tariffs. Tariffs are fees put on imports aren't they? Other than booze what does Mexico have to import to the US. in large enough quantities that it might offset the cost of that wall.

That whole scenario you suggest reeks of extortion to me. 'Pay up or sumptin bad gonna happin toya punk.
No. As a viable economic plan, that makes no sense to me at all. It is more conceivable to me that this was as I said before, a simplistic man selling back to simplistic people a simplistic promise, and then doubling down with a simplistic patch to cover the original promise when some people began to question him.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

The Art of the Deal at work. Sometimes the key is knowing when to walk away, and what parting comment to leave. This guy is a businessman, he does not do things like a politician.

I predicted (to myself) the Mexican Pres would call back this weekend grovelling but surprise, he couldn't wait and made nice with Trump today! lol

After Canceling White House Visit, Peña Nieto Speaks To Trump By Phone

And then you say they will pay in other ways, taxes tariffs, etc. Is Mexico now subject to US taxes? And tariffs. Tariffs are fees put on imports aren't they? Other than booze what does Mexico have to import to the US. in large enough quantities that it might offset the cost of that wall.

A little Googling will educate you regarding Mexico's exports, I'll leave that up to you. Hint: It's more significant than booze.

When over 80% of your exports go to the US with minimal Imports, yes they should be subject to some tax. We currently have a $60 Billion trade deficit with Mexico. I also think it's fair to say that if we are such a large economic booster for Mexico, maybe they should get their own house in order, tone down THEIR rhetoric for a change and start acting like a valued partner. These are the same guys that allow cartels to run wild killing their citizens. They also have an extremely high level of corruption in their law enforcement. No screams of human rights violations or demands to stop trading with a country that cares so little of their citizens? Hmmm

Even the Bank of Mexico publishes numbers that indicate $2 Billion per month in remittances going back to Mexico from here. According to Pew Research, remittances are usually electronic transactions. Just capturing a portion of that would easily pay for the wall. Pew Research and The Washington Post agree that a majority of the money comes from illegals here.

This situation was like the popular YouTube video of the girl in court who kept popping off to the judge. Every time she smarted off, he gave her a longer sentence. This is no different.

The illegal immigration and the drug issues with Mexico have been ongoing for many years and the politicians keep kicking the can down the road. I've been through more than enough Presidents to know they talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform every 4 years, and nothing ever happens. We can't even get our wonderful trading partner, the Mexican Gov, to do their part to keep their own people in.

Mexico knows and does nothing. Our politicians know, and have done nothing. Things haven't improved because no one has been assertive enough to just DO SOMETHING.

Until now. . .

Due to a lot of confusion about economics, based solely on several posts on this thread, I'd like to explain this to you all in the most condescending way possible:

A tariff is not just a tax on imports. It is a trade restriction strategy. If there is a 20% tariff on goods from Mexico, distributors, retailers, and consumers are going to seek out cheaper options, which may possibly be goods made here in the good ol' US of A. Basically, the tariff is not a tax at this point, but a threat. We're saying, "Pay for this wall, or we're going to tank your economy, while boosting our own." This is potentially a $295 billion loss for Mexico, when they could just pay $30 billion for the wall.

To put it in the words of Don Corleone in The Godfather, we're making them an offer they can't refuse.

a reply to: introvert

Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.

Gosh, that's just awful. And you'll only have twenty years to come up with a positive, non-alarmist, inventive & manageable solution..?

Whatever will you do, America?

a reply to: OrganizedChaos

Thank you Chaos. Your reply, unlike the reply to which I replied, offered substance and much to think about. Much.
Thank you again.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: introvert

Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.

Gosh, that's just awful. And you'll only have twenty years to come up with a positive, non-alarmist, inventive & manageable solution..?

Whatever will you do, America?

--Choking on coffee

Best fix would be, hmmmm maybe put people back to work so they can pay in? I know it sounds radical and all but . . .

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You're welcome!

I haven't had a chance to read all pages here yet, so I apologize if this has been covered. I was just wondering if the same rules apply to both sides of the border. For example if I and some buddies and their families wanted to spend a few years in Mexico, it would not be a problem we didn't go to the trouble of getting passports or visas? We really wouldn't have to worry about notifying any authorities there? We should also be able to get jobs there without any issues? I really need a break from these cold winters here.

Another thing I may be confused about, probably should not read Drudge, but I was thinking we needed a wall because our border patrol is simply overwhelmed by the size of the border and the numbers illegally crossing. I understand it is near impossible to secure presently. I am worried that more than just illegal immigrants and drugs are crossing. What about folks radically practicing the peaceful religions getting by, who are looking for more than getting along nicely? With all the tons and tons of drugs getting by, how easy would it be for these nice folks to bring some mayhem with them?

a reply to: OrganizedChaos

Steady on there cowboy, this ain't no rodeo. Don't you realise you'll break the magic spell of entranced youth & their tweed-jacketed nitwit overlords if you speak out loud the words you just issued forth?

originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You're welcome!

They have stop sacking that money to use for black ops and such.

Why isn't The Donald working with the Mexican President?

originally posted by: Majestic Lumen
They're going to need a lot of concrete, Mexico is the 7th largest producer of cement. I believe the largest Cement company in the US is CEMEX, a Mexican company. The second largest is Lafarge, which I believe is French, but having worked in construction, I hardly ever see Lafarge, and the times I've used it, it sucked, it was too "gummy". I'm in the Bricklayers union, however my friend worked in the concrete industry, roads, sidewalks, buildings etc... he said pretty much Mexico dominates the cement production and supply in the US.

The wall, plus what Trump says he's going to do with the infrastructure is going to boost Mexico's cement production a bit.

It's a win-win really.

As long as they don't pay for it, right? It's profitable for a country to sell services or products to another country. But it is not profitable if they pay for it themselves. That is called giving a gift.

Seems to me that Mexico and America are at an impasse. I don't think either of them will bend, probably there will be some kind of byzantine system of tariffs from both sides and in the end Trump can claim he has made Mexico pay, and the Mexican leaders can claim the opposite.