Losing civilities not to offend Transgenders

I can't agree with this when there are people like Danielle Muscato running around. Seriously, look "her" up.

This full-bearded, suit wearing, balding male, has no desire to start hormone treatment or undergo any kind of change to appear as a woman, but you better call him a woman or there will be hell to pay.

If you're actually living your life and passing actually your preferred gender, then fine, whatever. I'll use some common civility and call you by your preferred pronoun even if I believe your DNA will always tell the truth.

But people like Danielle Muscato are either seriously trolling or seriously deluded.

It is getting ridiculous everywhere. I'm a national licensed something or other and work with a lot of people all over the USA. One of the questions I have to ask when confirming identity is, "how do you identify, male, female or not applicable/provided". Most people laugh at the question, not because they're anti-alternative gender or anything like that, but because we've gotten to that point where this stuff is getting ridiculous and they can't believe it.

Years ago when I was in car sales there was a moment where I mistakenly called a very butch lesbian "sir". She was with her attractive female domestic partner. She didn't freak out and sue me or tear me a new one; she just told me she's a female and we moved past it. Pretty awkward, but we're all human, we all make mistakes, it happens. Get over it, stop getting so butt hurt about something so minute that it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things. To legislate what you can and can't say and to further regulate it through fines would be going down the rabbit hole.

Whatever equipment you have, you're still going to die eventually. Don't see the point in wasting your limited time and energy on BS.

Speaking as a Transgender, is absurd to overreact to a mistake people aren't #ing psychic and things can get confusing, and lots of people can look confusingly androgynous. Now if you politely correct a person and mention you identify as a woman, and then they curl their lip and proceed to derisively insist on calling you sir anyway. Now we enter a more grey area on what action is appropriate.

I'm against obscene lawsuits as a way to react to it. I mean potential ruining someone's life over a momentary annoyance is a pretty extreme reaction, as is trying to force people towards complete gender neutrality. I mean as a trans the whole point is to be a woman, not be androgynous. That just results in a bizarre compromise in which no one is really happy.

At the same time though, discrimination based on gender identity is a real thing, real harm is done, and ignoring it when it occurs is not a solution either. Is a difficult balance to find. Certainly though, being mistakenly called the wrong gender is nothing to get worked up over. That can happen to people who aren't even trans, just ask a guy with long hair how often he's been misidentified momentarily?

a reply to: Skywatcher2011
Well the easiest thing to do is tell potential dates, I don't like transgender people, and then your date whatever sex they were born can decide if your ideas tally with theirs. Saves wasting people time.

originally posted by: VinylTyrant
WHO CARES ABOUT TRANSGENDERS???,

Whatever the hell that even means.

Male/female. You don't get to choose. You're born one or the other.period.

People who aren't assholes.

Two genders is only a Western belief, many cultures have several - plus where would hemaphrodites fit in on the scale?

As for the guy who brought this forward, he seems a bit of an asshole too, every trans person I know would just see it as an honest mistake and brush it off rather than get a law passed. Though not saying sir or madam is hardly the end of the world.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Skywatcher2011
Well the easiest thing to do is tell potential dates, I don't like transgender people, and then your date whatever sex they were born can decide if your ideas tally with theirs. Saves wasting people time.

By saying this you accept the status quo of being PC.

How about others forgoing this operation will save a lot of time altogether.

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011

originally posted by: VinylTyrant

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011
a reply to: VinylTyrant

Check your "In-Box" hahaha

sick f#!kin world, man.

It is a twisted world we live in my friend...ever go to Thailand you be sure to be careful who you meet

Side note...if you think looking at a bean bag is sick, then you must be terrified when you look at yourself downstairs.

naah, I'm good. Gotta deal with that sh#t in Manhattan, forget vacation.
I thank the Good Lord I'm off the market.

Its cultural, we don't use the whole sir madam thing in the UK that much, in fact most women I know would not like to be called madam, its what we call women who run brothels.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Speaking as a Transgender, is absurd to overreact to a mistake people aren't #ing psychic and things can get confusing, and lots of people can look confusingly androgynous. Now if you politely correct a person and mention you identify as a woman, and then they curl their lip and proceed to derisively insist on calling you sir anyway. Now we enter a more grey area on what action is appropriate.

I'm against obscene lawsuits as a way to react to it. I mean potential ruining someone's life over a momentary annoyance is a pretty extreme reaction, as is trying to force people towards complete gender neutrality. I mean as a trans the whole point is to be a woman, not be androgynous. That just results in a bizarre compromise in which no one is really happy.

At the same time though, discrimination based on gender identity is a real thing, real harm is done, and ignoring it when it occurs is not a solution either. Is a difficult balance to find. Certainly though, being mistakenly called the wrong gender is nothing to get worked up over. That can happen to people who aren't even trans, just ask a guy with long hair how often he's been misidentified momentarily?

Yes, but you have a good head on your shoulders. And no chips on your shoulders either. I enjoy the overwhelming majority of your posts.
You are a credit to ATS, in my opinion.

a reply to: Golantrevize

I actually agree that this is silly. Cis gender men and women get misgendered all the time. You say sorry, correct yourself, and move on.

The only time it should be addressed is if it happens as a form of harassment.

a reply to: FamCore

Take a look at England and Canada universities as well, its not just the US

originally posted by: Puppylove
Speaking as a Transgender, is absurd to overreact to a mistake people aren't #ing psychic and things can get confusing, and lots of people can look confusingly androgynous. Now if you politely correct a person and mention you identify as a woman, and then they curl their lip and proceed to derisively insist on calling you sir anyway. Now we enter a more grey area on what action is appropriate.

I'm against obscene lawsuits as a way to react to it. I mean potential ruining someone's life over a momentary annoyance is a pretty extreme reaction, as is trying to force people towards complete gender neutrality. I mean as a trans the whole point is to be a woman, not be androgynous. That just results in a bizarre compromise in which no one is really happy.

At the same time though, discrimination based on gender identity is a real thing, real harm is done, and ignoring it when it occurs is not a solution either. Is a difficult balance to find. Certainly though, being mistakenly called the wrong gender is nothing to get worked up over. That can happen to people who aren't even trans, just ask a guy with long hair how often he's been misidentified momentarily?

Excellent post.

The truth is there will always be outliers and a-holes.

It is human nature to group things, and no matter how we try to expand inclusion into those groups, there will always be those that don't fit neatly in. Heck, many people don't want to fit in.

So instead of passing laws to try to ensure everyone fits in or we don't have groups, we have to just rely on peoples politeness. And sadly, there will be a-holes that will be rude just for the sake of it.

I am not transgendered, but from reading upn on the Jordan Peterson saga and the laws in Canada, it seems that these laws are mainly being pushed by non-trans people that feel they are speaking for trans people.

I could be wrong, but to me it seems that most trans people want what everyone does; fair access to obs, housing, to not be attacked for who they are, etc. They don't want special privileges that say its against the law to hurt their feelings. Its social justice warriors that are looking for a fight that push these issues.