Is there a dumbing down of music

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: supermilkman

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I think it is forgotten by many but BAD music exists during all time eras. We only remember the good stuff. But for how much the OP is waxing poetic about classical music, there is JUST as much crap from the Baroque and Classical periods as there is today.

Of course bad music has always exist. The thing is bad music wasn't popular, it was squashed.

Nowadays you have garbage being put on the radio waves.

I thought you flush feces down a toilet, not put it on a platter?

Not true either. Pop music has always been inundated with the cheese that is just there to cash in and make a buck. This includes operas and classical pieces as well. This is why it takes a good musician/artist to die before they achieve music god status. Their stuff is largely overlooked while they are alive.

Think of it like this. Humans' ears haven't changed much in the few hundred years separating between us and the height of classical music. We are still entertained by the simple stuff. Plus the really GOOD classical music tended to be for the ears of the elite. What do you think the commoners sang and played? Folk music. Simple stuff.

So the proles, or lower class, lived a life of simplicity while the upper class were more technical? Makes sense to be honest.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here's the thing though, your lower class of the 21st century are more affluent and intelligent than your medieval kings of the 15th century.

So this whole low and upper class thing is overrated. In my mind the upper class are detached from the lower class and many remnants of the lower class are more well off than they think.

To put things into perspective, King Arthur of the Renaissance didn't have electricity, heating and air conditioning, the automobile etc like many people do today. Although King Arthur is just poetic imagery, the idea is that even yesteryear's wealthiest people look poor in comparison to 21st century people.

Today's low class are well-off and your upper class live way beyond their needs.

According to studies on rise and falls of empires, the US is probably due for a collapse. Common tell-tale signs is when entertainers are valued more than laborers, when sex is publicized and glamorized to the point of obsession, state/government over-extending their authority, when militaries become undisciplined, showing off of wealth, large discrepancies between rich and poor, celebritizing food, failing currency.

I'm not trying to be totally antagonistic about music, but even as a guitarist I have lost conviction in playing when noticing a lot of the poverty that still is going on in the world. Art seems like a selfish, uncommitted crime when you realize there are more important issues that need to be addressed.

At this point, I'm only interested in listening to classical music and hymns.

Here is a song from the Grave of the Fireflies movie. The movie is based on a true WW2 story of Japanese kids that died from poverty after the Japanese' loss to the US. For me, watching movies like this and clips of the Holocaust puts things into perspective.

a reply to: supermilkman

More classical order music. Soundtrack is actually from a WW2 television series.

Band of Brothers soundtrack


Stay in the past.

a reply to: supermilkman

I'm a self-studied scholar of history. I understand your point about how the kings and queens of yesteryear look poor compared to America's poor.

Though it's unfair that you blame music for America's passivity. For one you bring up empires. Empires are created and sustained by a nation's military. If the populace switches to an idea of peace and stability instead of war and spoils of war, then of course the empire will wane. This is why America is trying to shift from a military empire to an economic empire. It's already a cultural empire. Our media is consumed and idolized the world over. But even if America's empire wanes in status, so what? That still isn't music or music's creators' fault.

Think of it like this. Music is a means of escape for a lot of people living in problem lives. Many famous musicians had rough childhoods or #ty adult lives that feeds into their artist drive. Without music they could have turned into worse people or not gotten out of their situations.

If you want to be selective in your tastes with music. That is fine and I'm not holding that against you, but I HIGHLY disagree with your idea that music is being dumbed down. For one. Saying that music is dumbed down is alluding to you trying to measure music. And music is art. You don't measure it. You experience it.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Let's not forget Africa.

West africa.

I just like music.

Adam Sandler is cool.

She has one of the best voices I ever heard. That is if it's not over-dubbed.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: supermilkman

I'm a self-studied scholar of history. I understand your point about how the kings and queens of yesteryear look poor compared to America's poor.

Though it's unfair that you blame music for America's passivity. For one you bring up empires. Empires are created and sustained by a nation's military. If the populace switches to an idea of peace and stability instead of war and spoils of war, then of course the empire will wane. This is why America is trying to shift from a military empire to an economic empire. It's already a cultural empire. Our media is consumed and idolized the world over. But even if America's empire wanes in status, so what? That still isn't music or music's creators' fault.

Think of it like this. Music is a means of escape for a lot of people living in problem lives. Many famous musicians had rough childhoods or #ty adult lives that feeds into their artist drive. Without music they could have turned into worse people or not gotten out of their situations.

If you want to be selective in your tastes with music. That is fine and I'm not holding that against you, but I HIGHLY disagree with your idea that music is being dumbed down. For one. Saying that music is dumbed down is alluding to you trying to measure music. And music is art. You don't measure it. You experience it.

You're right on some points but I still disagree. I posted a thread about Woo. It talks about persecution complex and guess what, a lot of your "o woe is me" musicians are just that, being criticized.

Of course you're being criticized. You're not being criticized because you're a "visionary," you're being criticized because you're a bad apple. Bad apples then think they can use music/art as an outlet for their messed up behavior.

If I was working on an orchard, I would keep the good apples and throw away the rotten ones. The rotten apples wouldn't get the silver spoon treatment like many do today.

Every snob punk rock 'n roller, gangster rap wannabe has this us-against-the-world attitude and a chip on their shoulder.

Criticism is refinemet that leads to improvement. Your over-privileged type thinks they can lash out any tiime someone calls them out for innapropriate behavior.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is why nobody feels sad for entertainers or other developed country people.





Entertainers can go eat their heart out.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is what I mean by a military that has over-extended it's authority.

US-NATO led air strike that hit Syrian child, killed family

a reply to: supermilkman

Not all these people are bad people though. A kid cannot help it if he is born into a broken home. If music is their only outlet, that doesn't make them a lost cause. That's inspirational.

Plus it's not about looking for pity. It's about using your talents to overcome and rise above the # life throws at you. Yes. There are parts of the world that are awful, but that doesn't mean that it trivializes the problems that people in the first world have either.

Also, it isn't entertainer's faults that those kids are starving in the streets. Plus if it wasn't the US' military over-extending its might, it would be a different country. Again this isn't a musician's fault though. Its unfair to blame artists for problems in the world that date back before they were even born.

a reply to: supermilkman

Undeniable proof that 9/11 was an inside job

Fox News reports the collapse of the second tower before being hit


BBC News reports collapse of WTC before actually being struck


William Cooper broadcast on June 28th, 2001, predicts major impending attack and that it will be blamed on Osama Bin Laden months before the event


Ground zero footage of first responders. You can hear explosives at the event.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Entertainment is used to DISTRACT you.

Don't you get it yet?

originally posted by: supermilkman
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Entertainment is used to DISTRACT you.

Don't you get it yet?

Everything you do in life is a distraction until you die.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

CIA drug trafficking. Former LAPD officer exposes CIA drug funneling into minority neighborhoods. (Note that Ruppert mysteriously dies years later.)


Journalist Gary Webb that exposes CIA drug trafficking. Also mysteriously dies.


Phil Schneider, former engineer involved in government black operations. Exposes underground tunnels, alien conspiracy, and government drug trafficking. (Also mysteriously dies.)


Scholars theorise that conflicts as late as the Vietnam war was a facade to get involved in the Golden Triangle drug route.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

These are SEVERELY important issues that need to be talked about. By the way, I know former infantry that stated they were training the Taliban how to make bombs.

a reply to: supermilkman

What do these topics have to do with the dumbing down of music though? None of that has anything to do the quality of the music being produced by today's musicians. Nor do having or not having the conversations above have anything to do with musical production.

Did you write this thread as a pretext to complain about conspiracies your don't feel have enough attention? If so, why did you wait til page 17 to grasp that thread?

I came into this thread to discuss music because I find music to be VERY important in my life as a listener and even as a musician myself (I play the mandolin). I'm really not trying to get sidetracked in whatever issues you feel are bringing our country down. Especially when forget causation, there isn't even correlation being shown between these topics and the OP you wrote.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The original Manchurian Candidate. The dialogue in the script is verbatim to actual mind control study papers. The links to the papers are down below.



Mind control experiments and documentation from the 1940's.
"Experiments in the hypnotic production of anti-social and self-injurious behavior."
scholar.google.com.au...,5
scholar.google.com.au...,5
scholar.google.com.au...,5

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Music is more important than people being killed in an unjustified war?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Entertainment is what the elite uses to keep everyone placated. If people are happy then they can't address the real problems going on in the world.

a reply to: supermilkman

Music is more important than people being killed in an unjustified war?

I don't know about you, but I can focus on many different topics and hold many issues to be important. I can ALSO talk about one topic without needing to address any others like its some sort of zero sum game for people's attention.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well as someone with military background it gets me angry. I also have a sister that is currently in the service and although she is ok I don't like the idea what the politicians keep doing year in and year out.

Every 4 years it's the same crap. Same military commercials, same high school graduates that want to enlist, same elections and political rhetoric blah blah.

Everyone keeps falling for this cat and mouse game and it gets me angry that people are dying for no reason.

The military is an elaborate depopulation program.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How was the Ancient Giza Pyramids built?