Fort Lauderdale Airport Shooting Suspect Claims U.S. Intelligence Forced Him to Watch ISIS Videos

a reply to: visitedbythem

I can understand your anger I have read your story many of my ancestors were killed by Nazi's my grandfather would of probably died had he of not escaped his slave labour camp,radical anything religion or ism is not good,I have been to Jordan and Malaysia both are modern progressive countries both are also Muslim YOU CANNOT THROW A BLANKET OVER ALL,this is a terrorist attack but its not muslim in fact its so bizarre the general public may not necessarily be the intended audience.

originally posted by: Dan00
He shouldn't have been "detained" upon any other premise but that he presented with a mental illness.

The problem is, that folks with what he has usually need to present themselves for help, the FBI is not warranted to "detain" someone based on what Esteban presented.

There would have to be a recording somehow of what he presented when he visited the FBI, and some other professional would have had to examine the recording (which could be flagged based on keywords) to determine whether or not help could have been offered to, or compulsory, for poor Steve.

If you mention that they have infiltrated your head by showing you ISIS videos, I would think that should be quite enough to just wonder if this soldier should be released to the public. If not, then our national security is not very secure.

a reply to: 3daysgone

It's not about National Security, it's about the law that protects us all from illegal search and seizure.

You are a good and gentle man/woman. I parse that.

We are all on a journey towards national self-discovery.

In the scheme of things, we haven't been doing "Nationhood" for very long.

Why are we doing this to ourselves?

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Again, this has nothing to do with vetting immigrants. And just because something is 'wrong' with somebody, does not give the FBI or anyone else the authority to detain them. Being mentally ill is not a crime. Had he done something criminal when he walked into the FBI field office, he would have been arrested.

So let me get this straight. If you were the one in charge of that office and someone comes in and mentions that the military has got inside his head with ISIS videos, you would think that it would be perfectly okay to release him to the public? If that is your stance, I would disagree.

As far as vetting muslim immigrants, I have already explained why that came to mind for me. Any vetting really. Vetting for political office even. So please stop being a SJW and making more of what I said that what I meant. Just to throw off this thread.

Cool it, Spartacus.

Ok. I am going to give you a star for that post because it did make me chuckle.

But......ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!

originally posted by: Dan00
a reply to: 3daysgone

It's not about National Security, it's about the law that protects us all from illegal search and seizure.

You are a good and gentle man/woman. I parse that.

We are all on a journey towards national self-discovery.

In the scheme of things, we haven't been doing "Nationhood" for very long.

Why are we doing this to ourselves?

I do understand what you are saying, but he went to them for help. That screams hey something is not quit right with this guy. Since he went to them it makes no sense . Have you heard what is being said? If you see something speak up so that our security forces can stop something bad before it happens. The FBI, for crying out loud, did not speak up. Don't you see the problem with that?

a reply to: 3daysgone

I would think that should be quite enough to just wonder if this soldier should be released to the public.

Okay,

Wanna have fun?

What exactly do you mean by "quite enough"?

What are you talking about when you say "Released".

There are laws governing this # in America.

We don't detain people because they are "talking crazy"

You get that, right?

originally posted by: 3daysgone
If you mention that they have infiltrated your head by showing you ISIS videos, I would think that should be quite enough to just wonder if this soldier should be released to the public.

The general guideline is that some local law enforcement group, generally the sheriff's office, can detain for evaluation if the person appears to be suicidal, homicidal, or 'gravely disabled', which would be something like they're laying down in the road or doing something like sleeping in kids' parks covered in feces and not eating or drinking anymore.

However, if the FBI or CIA (who don't, actually, have the power to detain based on mental illness anyway) jugged everyone who was talking to aliens or hearing voices, then they'd spend most of their time with schizophrenics. It's not in their mandate.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
I do understand what you are saying, but he went to them for help.

Detaining for grave disability due to mental illness is a state function, not federal. They can't do anything except suggest he go to the hospital or whatnot.

eta: a hint - had he gone to the US Marshal Service, or DHS, it would have been the same result. Feds execute federal law. The laws that allow a LEO to deal with mental illness are state level. A fed can't do that.

Had he presented to a local cop or SO, then yes, they could have possibly detained him for evaluation. It doesn't mean they always do. Auditory or visual hallucinations are not always enough to detain. You need SI, HI or grave disability. There are a TON of schizophrenics and/or schizoaffectives out on the street leading normal lives with the occasional bit of hallucination or logic dysfunction. You can't go around jugging everyone that fails some aspect of DSM.

etaa: An example. Had this occurred in Louisiana, where the youngest O'Bedlam works in a large ER, what can/could happen is this. The State of Louisiana handles mental health emergencies through the coroner's office. Any person (including any state or local LEO) can petition the coroner's office to issue an order of protective custody. If you're a LEO, it can happen over the phone and usually does. The LEO, getting a verbal ok, can then immediately take you into custody 'for your own good' and take you to any ER with psych facilities. The doc will evaluate you and issue a "PEC", or physician's emergency certificate, which turns you into a ward of the state for 72 hours. In that time, you will be further evaluated by a psych doc, who fills out more forms and the coroner will then commit you with a CEC for longer term workup. But the whole thing can be started by a family member up at the OPC stage. It just goes faster if a cop does it.

In California, any cop or SO can do a 5150 on you if you exhibit SI, HI or grave disability, in their opinion. They then take you to an ER with psych facilities, and you're further evaluated by the ER doc, who can continue the 5150 or commit you to a state facility for further evaluation by a specialist.

But at the federal level, there's no mechanism for committing you, because it's all state level law. Feds have no authority to commit you.

a reply to: Dan00

Sure I like games. As long as it doesn't involve Jigsaw.

What exactly do you mean by "quite enough"?

Evidence that a person, who has been trained to kill, might be a threat to the civilian population.

What are you talking about when you say "Released".

That they could not find a reason to think it would be a good idea not to let this person leave.

There are laws governing this # in America.

So you think they should have let him just walk out? Really?

We don't detain people because they are "talking crazy"

So a guy, with military training, knows how to use weapons very well, talking about our Nation's enemy inside his head, went to the FBI, not the local police department, the freaking FBI, and you will chalk all of that up to just "talking crazy"?
I don't get stunned much, but congratulations, what you just said has did that.

You get that, right?

Actually I don't.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Reported for reporting on somebody's opinion. Get over yourself, they are allowed to have an opinion too. The writings on the wall with the Muz anyways. Time for them to go back and fix their own countries.

a reply to: 3daysgone

That they could not find a reason to think it would be a good idea not to let this person leave.

Leave from where?

America is not a prison.

You have sunken deeply in to what is called "prison-thinking".

Thanks for contributing to the Gulag.

Review yourself.

Over and out.

Wow. You have proved me wrong. I guess it is a good thing they did nothing about huh?

a reply to: Bedlam

Detaining for grave disability due to mental illness is a state function, not federal. They can't do anything except suggest he go to the hospital or whatnot.

They would have had to prove he was mentally ill first. Yes they can do something. They just didn't.

So the federal law has nothing to do with someone saying ISIS is inside their head? Just chalk it up to crazy talk and be done with it. In hind site, do you agree that was a good idea?

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: Dan00
Evidence that a person, who has been trained to kill, might be a threat to the civilian population.

Anybody "might be a threat to the civilian population", " trained to kill" or not. That's not a reason to lock somebody up.

That they could not find a reason to think it would be a good idea not to let this person leave.

As has been stated several times, nothing he had done (at that point) was illegal, and the FBI has no authority to put him under a psychiatric hold.

So you think they should have let him just walk out? Really?

Yes.

So a guy, with military training, knows how to use weapons very well, talking about our Nation's enemy inside his head, went to the FBI, not the local police department, the freaking FBI, and you will chalk all of that up to just "talking crazy"?

Yes. You dont have much experience dealing with schizophrenics do you?

Actually I don't.

Fortunately, mental illness is not a crime in this country, and we have laws protecting us from your way of thinking.

originally posted by: 3daysgone

They would have had to prove he was mentally ill first. Yes they can do something. They just didn't.

And they didn't because there isn't any federal law to deal with it, and so they have no authority to detain him for hallucinating.

So the federal law has nothing to do with someone saying ISIS is inside their head? Just chalk it up to crazy talk and be done with it. In hind site, do you agree that was a good idea?

No, federal law has nothing to do with someone hallucinating. It doesn't address mental illness. It's not a crime. Especially, it's not something in a fed's purview. Because it's a state level issue. Feds can't give you traffic tickets, either. Except park rangers, I suppose. An FBI agent can't. Nor DHS, nor an ATF agent. Because they don't enforce traffic law.

So in hind sight, it doesn't matter - they have no authority over that. Are you advocating any LEO at any level should be able to just do what they think? No law, something outside their authority, just do whatever comes to mind. That sounds good to you.

I'm sort of boggling at that. Technically, being a FSO/CSSO, I can enforce federal law outside my facility. You get a neat badge and ID and the whole thing, and they go over some of the high points. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. One, I'm not trained for general law enforcement and I would feel like Paul Blart. But you'd have me out there doing the Judge Dredd thing, enforcing local food ordinances or labor law or issuing traffic tickets or being a game warden or a building inspector because any level of law or code enforcement should be able to just jump right in there and do whatever, including making crap up and arresting people for it. How crazy is that? I'd love to be able to (at times) just do what I felt like any time I felt like it and wave my neat ID around and say 'You're under arrest for general stupidity' but I don't think it would hold up in court.

a reply to: 3daysgone


God! not another CIA cock up!

a reply to: khnum
Your ancestors were slaughtered for a reason. Adolf Hitler was enabled. Do you remember his quote? Do you remember what he said about both our peoples. You ready? Let me remind you first that Adolf Hitler looked up to and respected, admired the Turkish Muslims


Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" What he was saying was, Who the hell is going to care about the Jews. Yes, that's where Im going. Your people were murdered, because the world didn't do anything about my people being murdered. PS my DNA indicates that I am a small part Jew as well

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: 3daysgone

They would have had to prove he was mentally ill first. Yes they can do something. They just didn't.

And they didn't because there isn't any federal law to deal with it, and so they have no authority to detain him for hallucinating.

So the federal law has nothing to do with someone saying ISIS is inside their head? Just chalk it up to crazy talk and be done with it. In hind site, do you agree that was a good idea?

No, federal law has nothing to do with someone hallucinating. It doesn't address mental illness. It's not a crime. Especially, it's not something in a fed's purview. Because it's a state level issue. Feds can't give you traffic tickets, either. Except park rangers, I suppose. An FBI agent can't. Nor DHS, nor an ATF agent. Because they don't enforce traffic law.

So in hind sight, it doesn't matter - they have no authority over that. Are you advocating any LEO at any level should be able to just do what they think? No law, something outside their authority, just do whatever comes to mind. That sounds good to you.

I'm sort of boggling at that. Technically, being a FSO/CSSO, I can enforce federal law outside my facility. You get a neat badge and ID and the whole thing, and they go over some of the high points. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. One, I'm not trained for general law enforcement and I would feel like Paul Blart. But you'd have me out there doing the Judge Dredd thing, enforcing local food ordinances or labor law or issuing traffic tickets or being a game warden or a building inspector because any level of law or code enforcement should be able to just jump right in there and do whatever, including making crap up and arresting people for it. How crazy is that? I'd love to be able to (at times) just do what I felt like any time I felt like it and wave my neat ID around and say 'You're under arrest for general stupidity' but I don't think it would hold up in court.

How do they know it was just an hallucination unless they investigate it?! Okay...I am beginning to suspect trolling.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: 3daysgone


God! not another CIA cock up!

And that means???