Chinese immigrants in America are eager to exercise an unfamiliar right: Gun ownership

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

A gun can be a weapon or a tool, just as the potentially deadly chemicals you likely have in your home can be a weapon or a tool. It's all in how it is used. A club is likely the first and still deadly weapon we humans have used and yet it is used in sports like baseball. Just as deadly as a gun. A knife can be used to prepare food, or it can kill just as surely as a gun can.

I think you misread most gun owners and whether that is intentional I don't know?

It's a hard position to understand to be honest. Violent crime is way down over the last 25 or 30 years, but gun ownership is way up. What would be your explanation of that? Could it be that gun ownership and violent crime are actually unrelated? The evidence would say it is, if you leave emotions and political bickering out of it.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I find it really sad that Americans equate gun ownership with freedom.

I understand how intrinsic guns are to American culture but I still find it sickening that you all celebrate it and are so proud of it

And really not taking shots.....I don't or cant even understand your point and your lack of understanding of the 2nd as part of a package of freedoms the lack of which equal oppression. You don't understand enough about why, the history, the ideas behind the rights and how the 2nd fits in.

originally posted by: luciferslight
a reply to: seasonal

I don't see how freedom revolves around a gun. I mean if you support terrorism indirectly good for you!

The idea of an armed citizen, the debate goes back for several hundred years before it was ever made part of the Bill of Rights. Goes back into Europe, England ect. Its actually profound in light of the how, why, when , where of the development up to the 2nd amendment of the Revolutionary Bill of Rights.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Mate a gun is a flat out weapon
Sure if you wanna be facetious you can say its a tool or that a car or even a bagel could be a weapon but these are just the arguments of someone who is delusional.

A gun is a weapon, own it or you shouldnt have a gun.

I understand most gun owners perfectly, their love of guns leads to such feats of mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance that discussion with them is almost pointless.

Violent crime is way down, OK how about mass shootings?
Has the rate of mass shootings also dropped with the increase in guns?

a reply to: Logarock

I understand plenty, for you not having a gun equals oppression, having a gun equals freedom and safety.

The US is the only country in the world where this mentality applies, The US is also the only country where mass shootings happen so often the are practically a part of the fabric of American society.

The genies out of the bottle and wont be going back in as long as people like yourself are prepared to sacrifice actual community safety for imagined personal freedom

It's time for another Chinese Exclusion Act.

a reply to: vor78

Just to add, the reason why is because the tens of millions of us who are responsible, law-abiding owners understand that every time some dipstick commits a violent crime with a firearm that makes headlines, the media and the politicians use it to paint all of us in a negative light and to disparage our rights when we've done nothing wrong.

Ill summarise what you just wrote

"My issue with idiots who misuse guns is that it may infringe on my right to own a gun."

Im not twisting your words Im just boiling them down, no mention of the 15,000+ people who are killed by guns which fits in perfectly with what Ive seen from gun lovers on this site "It doesnt matter if people die as long as I have my gun Im fine."

It would be interesting to see what percentage of gun deaths are perpetrated by "responsible" gun owners i.e those who have the correct paperwork

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

A gun is a weapon, own it or you shouldnt have a gun.

Really?? It is?? Thank you so much for being here to tell us these things...

A gun is a weapon is a tool.

Mine are tools that put food in my freezer. It's also a tool to ensure that I can protect my family should it, god forbid, become necessary.

a reply to: seagull

Semantics

I dont even understand why you guys bother arguing this point, it is first and foremost a weapon

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: namelesss

Luke 22:35-36King James Version (KJV)

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

About the sword, he DID change his mind shortly thereafter! *__-

The point was to walk in Faith.
But it is an interesting verse.
He tells them to dispense with their money/purses, and later he basically tells anyone who didn't listen/trust him to use the purse to buy a weapon.
Well, who BUT the Faithless, the disobedient, the unLoving... would be found with a purse at all, in this case!?
Anyone that 'fallen' is ripe to wield a weapon.
Until he had to spell it out for them!

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Yes, it is semantics. So why are you arguing, again?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Yes, it is semantics. So why are you arguing, again?

Because my statement is 100% Correct and yours requires an explanation and a bout of mental gymnastics.

A guns a weapon, you need said weapon for hunting and feel you need it for protection, why are you arguing that point?
Do you feel guilty for needing/wanting a weapon?

a reply to: mOjOm

Yeah I like my pump 12 gage a lot.

But this is what my 50 mag pistol looks like when I fire it at night

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I can't help it if you can't figure out that a gun is a tool, as it is also a weapon.

Explain to me, if you can, how a weapon isn't a tool?

This is a Monkey Wrench

It can be a tool or a weapon.

A guy at work told me about a fellow on a Navy vessel coming up through a hatch getting smacked in the head with one. He was done. They never caught the guy that did it either.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I can't help it if you can't figure out that a gun is a tool, as it is also a weapon.

Explain to me, if you can, how a weapon isn't a tool?

If you wanna go that way then anything can be a tool and anything can be a weapon.
But then some things are tools, some things are weapons, some things are something else entirely.
Things that are designed to be or are inherently one "Thing" can in fact be used for other things but it does not change the "Thing" that they are.

Saying something like "a chair is a tool for sitting" or "a door is a tool for entering exiting a building" arent incorrect per say but they are stupid, the "a gun is a tool" sentence fits into the same category, its like me saying "a spanner is a weapon".

Explain to me, if you can, why you have such an issue with a gun being a weapon?

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I find it really sad that Americans equate gun ownership with freedom.

I understand how intrinsic guns are to American culture but I still find it sickening that you all celebrate it and are so proud of it

Well i dont know. Do you also find it sickening that here we can openly criticize our government and leader?

This is also a freedom they don't have in china but we do have here. In some asian countires they even have mandatory online "passports" you need to use to even be able to post online and when you use it to talk negative about the government you will get a knock on your door, That is what i call sick, So why call it "sickening" to our right to be able to defend ourselves?

Gun rights do not equal murder but you make it sound like it.

originally posted by: everyone

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
I find it really sad that Americans equate gun ownership with freedom.

I understand how intrinsic guns are to American culture but I still find it sickening that you all celebrate it and are so proud of it

Well i dont know. Do you also find it sickening that here we can openly criticize our government and leader?

This is also a freedom they don't have in china but we do have here. In some asian countires they even have mandatory online "passports" you need to use to even be able to post online and when you use it to talk negative about the government you will get a knock on your door, That is what i call sick, So why call it "sickening" to our right to be able to defend ourselves?

Gun rights do not equal murder but you make it sound like it.

And yet there isnt a thread about any of that but there is a thread about him having the freedom to own a gun.

Thats actually my whole point, of all the freedoms this bloke is now entitled to why is it we only have news articles or threads on him buying a gun?
Its because American culture celebrates guns, the outside world doesnt see it as you exercising your rights but rather you indulging in a fetish, thats not based on your laws or anything else just the way Americans talk about them.

All western countries share the rights you list above and we have them without every man woman and child being armed to the teeth

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

You know what, I'm not going to let you drag me into this, so I'm deleting the original reply.

My earlier point was simply that most gun owners recognize that the laws regarding felons, the mentally incompetent, etc, benefits everyone, and has an important and obvious secondary benefit to gun rights. I would think that a desire to reduce violent crime for its own sake is inherent to the argument in favor of these laws and didn't see the need to mention it, otherwise, why even support those laws?

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Can you admit without resorting to strawman arguments that America has a gun problem?

It doesn't. Not even up a matter for debate.

It has a people problem. Bad people choose to do bad things.

If the problem was with the guns... well, there are more guns than people, so theoretically everyone in America should be dead by now.

Unless... *gasp*... the vast majority (and we're talking 99.999%) of firearms will never actually be used to commit a crime?

So, tell us again, how does that 0.0001% of firearms being used in a crime suddenly constitute a "gun problem" that outweighs the 99.999% of peaceable and lawful owners?