My brother said... (about dress code and rape)

originally posted by: Anaana
That men are wrong to ask "why put out an image of your intents and emotions that is false?"

Wrong? It is neither right nor wrong to ask or wonder about something. It is something that happens.
If someone wonders, should they not ask?

because you and they unless they actually ask, have no idea what the "intents and emotions" of a person are by how they are dressed?

Yes, for people who do not dress to express themselves honestly, no one knows the intents and emotions they have. My question is - why do they want to hide them?

You agree that you are wrong to state and reinforce the idea that by dressing "provocatively" a woman is advertising her availability to have sex and that it is your judgement of how that person is dressing?

I am having trouble understanding your question here. In the country I live in, people DO dress as a way of communicating to others things about themself. It assumed everyone does and they "read" the efforts of communication each makes. In discussions, I sometimes tell them that in America, many women don't. They wear things that do not correlate at all to who they are, what they are doing, wht they intend to do, their personality, etc. They instead dress according to what their media, and others tell them they should. They find this wierd.Like saying things you don't mean. But cultures vary.

Women here are not ashamed to acknowledge when they are in the mood for sex and will dress to communicate that.

BUT they will also (their goal in mind) put themelves in environments in which that is likely to be safe, protected, with specific types of people, in specific contexts.

It is a matter if mindfulness - in acknowledging and thinking about what you intend and who you are and what you feel, you are led to consider all the other important elements of that needed.

To return to your example of Miley Cyrus, why is that you think she "vulnerable" because of the way she chooses to express herself on stage? Why do you think someone is vulnerable just because they may choose to wear fewer clothes than you would? Or because they enjoy dancing or indeed, if they seek attention? What do you consider so wrong in seeking attention?

In general, women are vulnerable faced with men because of physical size and strength. That is what was refered to.
Miley Cyrus is not putting herself in danger, because she hires body guards. She knows what she is going to do, and what kind of effect she intends and what types of challenges it might invite (or at least her manager does) and they plan accordingly. As I said, if a girl wants to do like Miley Cyrus, she would do better to do it all like Miley - make sure there is protection.

I am laughing at the characterizations you keep putting up about me here- first, I know nothing about rapeand can't understand a victim of rape...now I am against dressing sexy or dancing... I was dancing in quite sexy clothes in extremely sexy ways last night... in a "Libertine" club with my husband.
I have no problem with doing these things, I just think it a good idea to do things in a safe way if you decide to do them.

But do as you wish, and others shall do as they wish. In a thread asking for discussion, you sometimes get mixed and differing opinions.

originally posted by: Anaana
That men are wrong to ask "why put out an image of your intents and emotions that is false?"

Wrong? It is neither right nor wrong to ask or wonder about something. It is something that happens.
If someone wonders, should they not ask?

because you and they unless they actually ask, have no idea what the "intents and emotions" of a person are by how they are dressed?

Yes, for people who do not dress to express themselves honestly, no one knows the intents and emotions they have. My question is - why do they want to hide them?

You agree that you are wrong to state and reinforce the idea that by dressing "provocatively" a woman is advertising her availability to have sex and that it is your judgement of how that person is dressing?

I am having trouble understanding your question here. In the country I live in, people DO dress as a way of communicating to others things about themself. It assumed everyone does and they "read" the efforts of communication each makes. In discussions, I sometimes tell them that in America, many women don't. They wear things that do not correlate at all to who they are, what they are doing, wht they intend to do, their personality, etc. They instead dress according to what their media, and others tell them they should. They find this wierd.Like saying things you don't mean. But cultures vary.

Women here are not ashamed to acknowledge when they are in the mood for sex and will dress to communicate that.

BUT they will also (their goal in mind) put themelves in environments in which that is likely to be safe, protected, with specific types of people, in specific contexts.

It is a matter if mindfulness - in acknowledging and thinking about what you intend and who you are and what you feel, you are led to consider all the other important elements of that needed.

To return to your example of Miley Cyrus, why is that you think she "vulnerable" because of the way she chooses to express herself on stage? Why do you think someone is vulnerable just because they may choose to wear fewer clothes than you would? Or because they enjoy dancing or indeed, if they seek attention? What do you consider so wrong in seeking attention?

In general, women are vulnerable faced with men because of physical size and strength. That is what was refered to.
Miley Cyrus is not putting herself in danger, because she hires body guards. She knows what she is going to do, and what kind of effect she intends and what types of challenges it might invite (or at least her manager does) and they plan accordingly. As I said, if a girl wants to do like Miley Cyrus, she would do better to do it all like Miley - make sure there is protection.

I am laughing at the characterizations you keep putting up about me here- first, I know nothing about rapeand can't understand a victim of rape...now I am against dressing sexy or dancing... I was dancing in quite sexy clothes in extremely sexy ways last night... in a "Libertine" club with my husband.
I have no problem with doing these things, I just think it a good idea to do things in a safe way if you decide to do them.

But do as you wish, and others shall do as they wish. In a thread asking for discussion, you sometimes get mixed and differing opinions.

a reply to: Bluesma

You just don't seem able to understand it. I think that that is that.

If a person is capable of asking what a women means by how they are dressed, then why does it matter what they are wearing if they are raped? That is what is being argued here. What a woman or anyone else is wearing has nothing to do with why she was raped, so why do you keep justifying the belief that it does?

What I am saying, if you cared to pay attention, is that you think that dressing in a certain way is "sexy", but I might not agree. Perception is unique and shaped by experience, and the influence of those around you. What I might consider sexy attire may seem dour to you, and likewise what may be dour to me, may set some freaks wires buzzing. It is completely subjective and therefore irrelevant to the discussion of how, as a society, collectively we prevent rape.

In the UK the very suggestion that men are unable to control themselves is met as an insult. It is more a badge of honour to be able to control yourself to the nth degree in all matters sexual. This seems to be a far more positive step than to merely assume that men are incapable of controlling their sexual desires.

a reply to: Bluesma

This is a good article that explains what I mean in more depth...

After the presentation, one of my students, outraged, raised her hand and asked "What is wrong with this boy's parents!? They must take some of the responsibility." The class debated the degree of the parent’s culpability. In doing so, it was ultimately determined that, while as a society we make an effort to teach girls methods to avoid getting raped, we ironically do not teach boys not to rape. As a mother of a son, I have recently given this notion great thought. As it relates to acting to minimize the risk of sexual assault, parents and safety educators know to teach girls about the buddy system, to watch what they wear and the dangers of getting drunk or high, but what do we teach boys?

www.psychologytoday.com...

a reply to: Bluesma

Another good point...

If our kids hear us excusing rape or sexual assault in any way, they will internalize that message. They will also hear you degrading women for their sexuality or clothing, and they will remember that.

They may start to believe that there are circumstances in which they deserve to be raped or assaulted, or believe that they are entitled to commit (or even just excuse) rape or sexual assault if the victim seemed to “deserve it.” Whether that’s because a woman made a “slutty” choice orbecause a male victim “seemed gay,” it is wrong. Every time.

goodmenproject.com...

This is excellent advice on how to teach young children to basic skills involved in healthy physical interactions and understanding appropriateness/boundaries for different people.

We allow our boys to get physical, and fight each other, or other boys. We ask, “Is everyone okay with this?” If the answer is yes, then they are free to go ahead. Boys are physical, and there’s no reason they shouldn’t be. They just need to make sure that everyone involved is fully on board with whatever’s happening, and stop if anyone becomes hurt, overwhelmed, or simply does not want to continue.

Obviously, this applies to sex as well. If their partner is enthusiastic and on board, there is no problem.

Ultimately, rape isn’t about sex. It’s about power and control. All of the things above can make people more likely to rape, but plenty of people have had teasing that goes a little too far or haven’t had consent emphasized and yet do not become rapists.

Narcissists are more likely to rape people. These are people who don’t care about others and who just want to be in control, have power, and hurt others. They, themselves, are hurting and trying to overcome it. Being drunk makes it worse, because they lose inhibitions too.

As a parent, being empathetic and sympathetic to children, really listening to them and caring about them, and teaching them respect, love, and gentleness, is so important. People who are emotionally healthy and loved do not rape others. They don’t need to — they have nothing to fight against, and real intimacy and relationships are too important to them to mess up.

www.modernalternativemama.com...

I'm going to quote more from the above because it is a really excellent article...

Ultimately, what you model is what your kids will absorb. If men treat women like they don’t matter — cutting them off when they speak, being overly harsh, making lewd comments about women in public — then boys will see that and absorb that and treat women the same way. They will be at risk for becoming rapists if their fathers or other men in their lives mistreat women.

If their fathers and other men are respectful, listen to women, do not make lewd comments, and display gentleness towards women (and hopefully, respect towards other men as well), then they will, too.

Teach your daughters, too, to expect that the men in their lives will treat them well, and to refuse to be around men who don’t!

It’s really not that hard to teach your sons not to rape. Their bodies are theirs; other peoples’ bodies belong to other people; listen to peoples’ words and opinions, and respect what they say.

www.modernalternativemama.com...

originally posted by: Anaana
I'm going to quote more from the above because it is a really excellent article...

Ultimately, what you model is what your kids will absorb. If men treat women like they don’t matter — cutting them off when they speak, being overly harsh, making lewd comments about women in public — then boys will see that and absorb that and treat women the same way. They will be at risk for becoming rapists if their fathers or other men in their lives mistreat disrespect women.

Respect

If their fathers and other men are respectful, listen to women, do not make lewd comments, and display gentleness towards women (and hopefully, respect towards other men as well), then they will, too.

Respect

Teach your daughters, too, to expect that the men in their lives will treat them well, and to refuse to be around men who don’t!

Self respect?

It’s really not that hard to teach your sons not to rape. Their bodies are theirs; other peoples’ bodies belong to other people; listen to peoples’ words and opinions, and respect what they say.

As I have said in many of my posts..... The key is ......

Self respect and respecting others

originally posted by: Anaana

There are very few men that are unable to control themselves once they are aroused.

I do not think it is a problem of being ABLE to control themselves once aroused.

Think about it -
what "controls" the body and actions?
The Mind, right?
When the mind is broken, it is abnormal, it has psychological and mental defects, it does not send the message to the body to stop.
How to make clear to you what an abnormal thinking process might entail... they vary greatly. But to choose an example you might relate to, think about when you have your psychotic episodes? What happens?
You have described that you see meanings in things around you which you don't see when not in psychosis.

Imagine being in that state all the time. Really believing that things around you are symbols of deep meaning and message... really believing that someone or something is a threat to your life, you would see not reason to stop your urge to defend yourself from it, would you?

It's not that you are physically incapable of controlling your reactions, but that your mind believes there is good reason for them and they should be carried out.

The fact that rape exists in such large numbers is the proof that there are people who are mentally imbalanced and do not react or self regulate in the way healthy people do. That does not mean they are not to be held responsible and imprisoned, it means - be aware, there are sickos out there. Be mindful, alert.


Yes, I pointed out there are different types of rape offenders. See the extracts and links provided (or look up your own). The person who rapes a 70 year old woman, a nine year old child, and a date raper (the most common one) have a totally different psychological profile, are motivated and stimulated by totally different things.

With the sadist, or the child molestor, clothes and behavior of their targets are not part of the stimulation at all (either is sex). With one kind of rapist, the entire context (behavior + appearence/clothing + environment) can play a part in attracting their attention. This does not mean the victim is to blame for their mental sickness and abnormal behavior - it means be alert, be aware, choose carefully where and how you decide to be provocative, and use precaution.

As for your links, I do not buy the feminist narrative of the extracts you provide, which indicate all men are potential rapists - they just need to be taught not to rape; to control their rapist urges.

I also think that article is speaking to a limited type of social strata. The types of parents who do not even have the knowledge to teach their children about the most subtle abuses of their power, that they actually need to be told "teach your boys rape is bad". That is so basic, and well... DUH. I wouldn't imagine anyone wouldn't have done that.
On the other hand, I see they don't take the message further - not only is rape out of the question, but so is subtly imposing your physical strength in body language to manipulate others.
You start with don't rape, don't hit, don't punch, as the ABC's of education... and you teach them MORE after that - like I said, don't go to stand too close to someone smaller than you when you want them to agree or do something with you. I pointed out in public when others were doing this, I explained, they are not even aware they are abusing their power, YOU be aware. You think about it and be conscientious of this effect upon others.

There is a lot of more complex and subtle things to teach your kids after the basic ABC's. But apparently some people need to be told to teach them that basic alphabet of social consciousness - so read up on that article if you need to.


Many people have done that and are onto more complex lessons.

I think I am done with interacting with you. I won't try to determine whether you are intellectually deficient, just stubborn, malicious, uneducated, or what. I don't know and don't care. But you are surely stuck in the most basic questions like "is rape bad?" or "Is a rapist 100% responsible for his actions?", "are the clothing a woman wears THE base of rapist behavior?" - (things we all here agree upon already) that you seem to be unable to go beyond them into some more subtle and complex questions.You are just confusing yourself by trying to go back again to those.

There might be some issues you are just not equipped, at this time, to analyze.

a reply to: Anaana

a reply to: geezlouise

Yes I am aware clothes are not the be all and end all when it comes to being sexually assaulted.

My point though was about minimising the risks. Sure you could wear a burqa and get raped, but I think appearances can alter the chances of such a thing occuring.

My point being people need to use their smarts. You should be able to walk down the street with $10,000 on you and not be robbed, but would you or any other sane person walk down the road waving a huge wad of cash in the wind despite the fact you should be safe?
Highly unlikely. You'd keep it in your wallet, money belt or whatever out of sight. Or more than likely put it in the bank and use an ATM card as required.
Becaus epeople know robbers are out there and they may be killed for it. But we do not see posts, marches, protests etc saying "Take back the night for the safety of those who want to flash their cash"
You might still get robbed, sure, but by not waving that cash around you minimise the chance. It is just common sense.

This is what I meant about people (e.g Americans) loading up on guns to protect their property, but not taking common sense steps to protect themselves.
Not just clothing but yes, safety in numbers, not walking alone late at night, that sort of thing. Heck I am a big guy capable of handling myself, but I myself avoid putting myself into situations that I know I can avoid.

If I knew dressingly scantily would increase chances of myself being assaulted I'd avoid doing so, or do so only in 100% guaranteed circumstances. But I drive down the street and reguarly see young girls and women walking alone at night dressed like sex workers. I see these young ladies are the ones being leered at, cat called and harrassed more so than women who are more moderaterly dressed.

I can only go by what I see with my own eyes. And honestly women, especially young women can and do often put themselves into some very stupid situations. Not easy for me to say when I am a father of 2 daughters myself.
But I have encouraged them to dress moderately, but not necessarily puritan and use their brains about the situations they put themselves into.
When they have ignored this advice is when they have had troubles with the kind of guys I mention safly do exist. Those who don't have a normal rational, and hooboy teenage boys especially have a lot of issues there.

I mean would you walk around in your underwear in public? After all short shorts are not that different from a pair of panties short of the material they're made of.
Where do we draw the line? I draw it at common sense and logic.

I know you said you want a world where everyone can be nude, me too, but that is not how it is. Many of us live daily with things we do not wish, restricting ourselves, because we have to share our spacve with others, this is called a society.
It means being flexible and making sacrifices so a whole bunch of different people with different opinions can live in the same space with minimal conflict.

Sadly a lot of people these days, especially the younger "ME" generation, that has facebook and youtube telling them can be and do anything they want ignore this fact and it is honestly making the world go backwards as we move forward in terms of technology.

Mind you it's not just clothes, it's attitudes in many things, religion, politics, lifestyle choices etc. Forget about the happy medium of what will work for everyone, even if they do not like it, it's all about what I want.

Gotta say OP at least you have a brother looking out for you, he probably knows that not just you, but he and the rest of the family, would go through should you be harmed.
You may be the victim but so are the family and friends and often they not the victim themselves are often the ones who have to clean up the mess. And it is aggrevating when that mess comes from a situation that could of been avoided or minimalised.

Rape is wrong, any fairly sane human would agree. But again not every person is sane, and that is what we need to keep in mind when we go out in the world.
You want ultimate freedom, stay home or move where there are no other humans, don't enter the public world and you can live and dress how you want.
But as long as you're going to live in a public society, you need to use your head and conform within reason and consider the other folks around you.

I know walking round with my dick out will get me arrested. So I don't walk around with my dick out. But using your same logic I should ignore that and walk around exposing myself because hey, that is what I want and it isn't hurting anyone, well not physically. Might hurt their eyeballs a bit though lol. So what right do they have to stop me?

It's not even because it'll get me arrested, but I don't simply because I know the majority in society would not approve of such a thing in a shared space amongst other potetnial consequences. getting physically assaulted comes to mind ,which is not at all different to being raped, because of how I am dressed. Heck even men get raped and by women too. But again, possibly happens less because we generally minimise the risk we place ourselves in. Well when we're adults and matured some.

Often when I see on the news someones been raped, they're out late at night, they're drunk, they're dressed sexily (not always but often), and they were alone.
Changing any single one of those would of changed the outcome. But who cares about being smart and safe if you're not living how you want to hey?

Any way, you seem young, if you ever have kids, especially girls I am sure with some life experience by the time they are teenagers you'll be singing a different tune while the kids are crying to you about the same things you're saying here.
Quite a common things for parents.
I often catch myself saying "god I sound like my parents." and no longer being a teenager I can see why they said and did what they do. You'll get it one day. I hope.

Just frustrates me when I see people being harmed when they could of avoided it, and especially when it is because "I CAN DO WHAT I WANT"

Any way not much more I can say, wish you the best in life, but I implore you always try to put common sense before your rights and wants.
If more people did, this world would be a less #ter place.

originally posted by: eletheia
As I have said in many of my posts..... The key is ......

Self respect and respecting others

It's an excellent article, isn't it? What I particularly enjoyed was how the writer was able to express their own moral position without projecting that onto others. I believe that is key to tolerance and respecting other people's choices.

Thanks for taking the time to read it, I appreciate that.

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

And no one here has suggested otherwise, that we all have to take measures to protect ourselves is a given, and it is wholly accepted that girls and women are taught how to avoid rape, what is important is to understand is that boys are not being taught not to rape in some societies. Do you think that it is fair? No one is saying that it is unfair that we have to protect ourselves from predators and other dangers, fairness is not a given, what we are asking is, why should the victims of rape and not the rapist be the one who is expected to modify their behaviour?

I think this is a very helpful perspective from a man who was raped by another man...

When I wrote about men who are raped by women, for Details magazine in 2004, it caught the eye of Bill O’Reilly, who discussed it on his show. “If you’re lucky enough as a guy to have some girl come on to you in that manner,” he said, “but you don’t want to reciprocate, you stand up and you leave, unless the woman is 240 pounds and tackles you. The man is traditionally stronger and better equipped to leave the room.” There is a great disbelief out there, despite the numbers — from the CDC! the NIH! the Justice Department! — about how 1 in 33 men have experienced “a completed or attempted rape,” or 12.9 percent have been sexually assaulted. Mostly it’s by men they know. (I have a couple dozen mutual Facebook friends with my assailant.)

Another excellent point...

Every time we discuss rape as if it’s only men dragging women into alleys, we make the act of reporting it all the more uncomfortable, burdensome and alienating for women being raped by their boyfriends, or students being raped by their teachers, or men being raped by women, or men being raped by men. It is an act of theft on top of an act of rape.

Is the US a "rape culture"?

It’s a world where George Will realistically can defend writing that sexual assault survivors “make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges.” The Web site GOPrapeadvisorychart.com, which tracks Republican blunders on rape, is now in its eighth edition.

www.washingtonpost.com...



We need more people to stand up and speak like this.

According to a University of North Dakota study released this year, one-third of college men said they would “force a woman to sexual intercourse” if no one found out and there were no consequences. That number dropped substantially to 13.6 percent when researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question. Researchers said that the men who responded in the affirmative to the question without the use of the word “rape” did so because women are viewed as “passive sexual objects” and they see aggression as “an appropriate and accepted expression of masculinity.”

A Washington Post and Kaiser Family Foundation survey that surveyed a larger group — 1,053 students aged 17 to 26 — found that students are generally confused as to what constitutes consent. Forty-seven percent of students surveyed said that if a person removes their clothes, they’re giving consent, and 49 percent said removal of clothes did not provide consent. There was also a difference in how men and women defined consent, with 30 percent of men saying foreplay constituted consent while just 15 percent of women said the same.

thinkprogress.org...

Note, as bolded, that is learned behaviour, nothing "natural" about that, those are negative personality traits that, from my perspective, seem to be rewarded in US culture.

Objectification and manipulation appears to be normalised.

a reply to: Anaana

Thank you for all the information, wow.

I'm on my phone because my laptop situation has been jeopardized and so I feel rather limited in my responses. Even quoting people is tough, so thank you for providing information and sources and also it's driving me crazy that no one is starring your posts but the guy who literally believes that clothes can reduce risk of rape and prevent rape situations gets three stars but does he provide any evidence to back his claims? No, he's like another bluesma giving us a wall of text full of subjective opinions. And nutty narcissistic Bluesma has stars too lol wtffffz.

I'll just chalk it up to us being on the eleventh page so you know everyone's gone and doesn't care anymore and the stars are probably from Bluesma's six other secret accounts that she uses under different vpns.

Lol. Jk. Idk if bluesma has six other accounts.

Maybe only 4.

Jk. Idk if she's being dishonest with us in that way.

Wouldn't put it pass her tho.

originally posted by: Anaana
According to a University of North Dakota study released this year, one-third of college men said they would “force a woman to sexual intercourse” if no one found out and there were no consequences. That number dropped substantially to 13.6 percent when researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question. Researchers said that the men who responded in the affirmative to the question without the use of the word “rape” did so because women are viewed as “passive sexual objects” and they see aggression as “an appropriate and accepted expression of masculinity.”

I also believe this attitude comes about due to pornography being so easily

available, and is usually the first port of sex education to the very young

male.

Then too sex education is usually conducted by a teacher as a purely

reproductive exercise, and with no particular expertise in sexual/emotional

involvement. Giving the idea as ^^above^^ that sex is just what men do to

women and as long as she isnt hit or held down it isnt rape.

Objectification and manipulation appears to be normalised.

Very true and as I said above I blame the easy availablity of porn and the

lack of good sex education.

I feel really sorry for the girls of today, Having access to grand daughters

and their friends gossiping, it appears that they need to have a boy to

validate themselves ....and they have to be appeasing. Social media

and fb have a lot to answer for imo.

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: AtomicKangaroo
what is important is to understand is that boys are not being taught not to rape in some societies.

Cannot remember classes or advertisments here in Australia where they teach women not to rape, sexually abuse kids or that domestic violence against men and children is bad either?

But I do see plenty of ads telling men to be good fathers and not to beat their wives. We have a department of womens affairs in my country but strangley not one for men.

I've read a lot of statistics that claim about 45% of reported DV is perpertuated by women, which makes me wonder how many it would be if you included non-reported cases.
A U.S study spoke to police and discovered police claim the majority of DV cases were started by women, just that as men are generally physically stronger we're much better at ending such confrontations so even if it is in defence we're the ones going to gaol and having our reputations destroyed.

A sexual abuse study I will link if I can find it where a study was done on male and female sexual abuse victims, more males interviewed apparently had been sexually assaulted by women than by men.

# Of men who had experienced sexual assault by a man (72,300):

# Of men who had experienced sexual assault by a woman (130,600):

Horizions: Research report October 2015

And yes this study is of course all about women and kids, but thankfully does mention abuse against men.
I am sure figures would be much much higher if more men came forward.

So how about we not single out men and teach women and men (because you know equality) that crime is bad regardless of what is dangling between your legs. Recently learned my 66 year old father was sexually abused by two older women when he was a kid.

I and my kids were victims of domestic violence, went to police for help and even with independant witnesses who got locked up? yep me the victim.

But yes, plenty of education for men, or more like guilt shaming. Time women got their chance to become better people. Because equality aint equal unless it is..... ta da..... EQUAL.

Heck men overall are more likely to victims of violent crime than females are. Where's the awareness and politically correct feels and outraged SJW's for them?

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

Absolutely. I am pretty anti-feminist (at least the current wave) because it has swung into an extreme of misandry, in which women have the right to do whatever they want to others, no matter how much damage it causes, and men are not only held to stricter expectations, but assumed to be guilty in all circumstances. - even if they are raped.

As I started out here, both genders need guidance in learning to be respectful of others and self- not just males.

But it is socially accepted- no, encouraged for females to use the emotional tyranny of victimhood , that the guys who are abused have little or no voice. They have to face the social pressure to be either a "predator" or a "rescuer" role, or shut up and say nothing.

As much as I'd like to voice compassion for the female victims of rape (and I feel it) I also hate the way they are encouraged to USE that unfortunate event for the rest of their lives in the place of assertive and honest self respect.

a reply to: Bluesma

Yep, sad but true.

I hate terms like feminism. It's a divisive label, have feminists say they're for equality, no if you're for equality you're an egalitarian.
They shut up or get abusive when I ask "what are you doing to protect men and their rights"

or my favourite:

"As a western woman, please name one right I as a male have that you do not."
That one really get's them pissed off and I am still awaiting an answer. Mind you I can list a books worth of rights they have that as a male I do not have.

While I was being assaulted in public in front of my kids, strangers came over to help. But who do you think they came to help, me or the woman? Yep her, but thankfully they saw things for what they were and assited me. Also gave statements to the cops saying I was the one being assaulted, complete strangers. Yet still I was the one arrested and put in a cell for the night and had to appear in court later. Despite evidence showing I was the victim and had done no wrong, even her own statements and testimony showed she was clearly lying, I was found guilty.

I'll always remember what my lawyer said as we stood in the court house. "If you want justice you're in the wrong place mate." He knew I was screwed because of my gender and had no chance of winning because Australian law, as even the police told me, is designed to favour the woman at all times when I asked why the hell I was in cuffs despite it being obvious I was the domestic violence victim. Witnesses were never called because their testimony would of cleared me, and the many times she was clearly shown to be abusing the police to use as a weapon, no repurcussions. Not a single one.

Damn I wish I wasn't 6 foot 7 and was able to cry on demand some days.

And they wonder why depression and suicide rates are so high these days in men, especially single fathers. It's messed up.

a reply to: geezlouise

No problems, I am finding the reading fascinating...you think you know about something then you slightly shift your position and a whole new, horrifying, vista opens up.

I think that the fundamental difficulty with what researchers have termed "Rape Cultures" is that the example is being set by women and the standards of good behaviour are being set by women. It is Mother's telling their children what is a "good" girl, and defining what a "bad" girl is, and at the same time promoting this notion that women use their clothing to communicate their availability to sex. When you factor into that the same women have probably been set this example by their Mother's and seemingly taught that their sexuality is a "power" to be wielded, it starts to become clear why this is such an insidious problem because there is a total lack of self-awareness that their behaviour is in fact the "bad" causative factor we are having to deal with. How do you deal with that level of programming?

If you compare this situation with the examples we have in India, which is also currently considered a rape culture you begin to appreciate how changing how people think is fundamental to how they act. In certain mind sets in India, a women out alone is shameful and unprotected, fair game. This is making it very hard for women to emancipate themselves from the home and develop economic self-sufficiency, thereby enabling them to raise themselves and their families out of poverty. The immediate solution to the problem is that they are escorted by a male to and from work, but that cannot be a long term solution, that is not independence that is patriarchalism. In India women are standing together collectively because they know that the kind of women that they are, don't have a man to protect them all the time, that sometimes men get ill and die, or they run off because the responsibility is too great, or a better offer turned up. Women do too, but the difference is a man can go out to work, in a system where women are not able to leave the house on their own, they have to earn their living from home and that doesn't support them sufficiently to break free from poverty. In India they know that they have to change the way people think, before they can hope to change the way they act.

So, in India the difficulty is breaking free from the mind set that all girls and women need to be protected by men from other men, and this is promoted by men. In the US however, we have a demographic of women who's whole self-worth is wrapped up in gaining sexual power over men and manipulating them with their sexuality. It's a matriarchal problem. These are the women who are rewarded by US society and therefore they have the most influence ultimately. Doesn't matter how many women we even get in the board rooms and decision making positions, if the boss keeps going back to a narcissistic, trophy wife, adept at using sex to get what she wants, and judging every one else by the same standard, now does it?

Rape Culture basically blames the victim, male or female, for what happens, when instead we should be better educating the public to realize what rape and sexual assault are and why they shouldn’t do it. This is only furthered by sexism and the misogynistic jokes and actions that society has fostered. We are trained by the media and society to see a woman dressed in a certain way as an invitation to sex, or a man who seems overly flirtatious as a sign of sexual attraction. These “hints” are taken as a justification for our actions and thus turn the blame on the victim once again. We need to train society to realize that just because a girl is wearing a short skirt and a low-cut top that she isn’t asking for sex, and that just because you had sex with that hot soccer player once before, that doesn’t mean he is going to want to do it again and again.

thoughtcatalog.com...