The Constitution lets the electoral college choose the winner. They should choose Clinton.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Wow, you think of me as the biggest liar on ATS? I consider myself more of an unapologetic truth bringer to the massive right wing misinformation machine-- but still, I take what you said as a big compliment since I know that calling truth out as lies is a common "fake news" tactic... and to be called the "biggest liar". Thank you.

You're very welcome! And yes...I've followed a few of your posts, even informing others of the depth of your partisan lies and plan to continue to do just that.

Says the author of OPs like

"Bin Laden Crosses the US Border!"

Puhleese....

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: spiritualzombie

Unfortunately there are a lot of ill informed and ignorant people that believe that Hillary Clinton would be a good president, or even a better choice than Trump. These people spend a lot of time listening to mainstream media, which is proven propaganda.

Are you one of these people?

No I do my own thinking, and that means also recognizing Alex Jones, Brietbart, and random twitter, facebook, Reddit links as being untrustworthy.

So how can I possibly determine what's right? Well, luckily I was born with a brain and conscience and I am also well educated.

So... when a candidate says we should torture, and the question is asked about the lack of reliable intel obtained from torture, and he says 'they probably deserve it anyway...'. It doesn't take a genius to see the flaws in that thinking

When a candidate claims despite the overwhelming consensus of climate scientists all over the world, that Climate Change is nothing more than a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.... It doesn't take a genius to recognize the flaw in that.

When a candidate says it's rigged if he loses and not if he wins... Well that's just a kindergarten lesson in the meaning of hypocrisy.

So many more things I could point to... Trump is an idiot. And he's a dangerous idiot. And his followers reject real journalists in favor of twitter and conspiracy theory.

LOL. And THEN... these batsh#t fake news chugging zombies accuse my thread of being lies. Yeah... lies like Climate Change.

This President-elect is ushering in an age of post-facts. The motive is to dumb down and divide. Don't get sucked into it.

Historical Fact - The Electoral College was created for the specific purpose that the frenzy of the mob would not decide who the Chief Executive is.

Language Fact - There is no such thing as the "popular mandate." (That's a social and political talking point.)

Constitutional Fact - Trump is the President Elect from the Nov 8 2016 vote and will be inaugurated on Jan 20 2017.

Personal Opinion - Hillary Clinton has no business being President. (Neither does Trump actually, but he got the EC's)

LET

IT

GO

a reply to: Teikiatsu

You say let it go, and yet continue to post in this thread? Maybe take your own advice?

I enjoy the discussion but if it upsets you too much maybe you should let it go... there's a lot of trigger-free fake news out there that I am sure would be more to your liking.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
So how can I possibly determine what's right? Well, luckily I was born with a brain and conscience and I am also well educated.

Educated enough to know what the Electoral College is and what it's purpose is?

When a candidate claims despite the overwhelming consensus of climate scientists all over the world, that Climate Change is nothing more than a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.... It doesn't take a genius to recognize the flaw in that.

There is a flaw in calling incorrect computer models 'science'.

The word 'consensus' and 'science' do not belong in the same sentence. Science is all about be challenged and willing to admit when it is wrong and try again. Falling back on incorrect computer models and cherry-picked data is not science, it's an agenda.

So many more things I could point to... Trump is an idiot. And he's a dangerous idiot. And his followers reject real journalists in favor of twitter and conspiracy theory.

Show me a real journalists, we'll see if they are rejected.

Don't show me a person from CNN, HLN or MSNBC. They have proven themselves to be partisan shills in both word and deed.

LOL. And THEN... these batsh#t fake news chugging zombies accuse my thread of being lies. Yeah... lies like Climate Change.

LOL failing computer models.

This President-elect is ushering in an age of post-facts. The motive is to dumb down and divide. Don't get sucked into it.

Social media is ushering in an era of 'feels' and non-critical thinking. A lot of people (regardless of ideology) are being pulled into it.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: Teikiatsu

You say let it go, and yet continue to post in this thread? Maybe take your own advice?

I enjoy the discussion but if it upsets you too much maybe you should let it go... there's a lot of trigger-free fake news out there that I am sure would be more to your liking.

Don't make it personal. This is not the mud pit.

Trump got the Electoral Votes. The Electors are appointed by the party that won the state votes. The GOP electors are not going to vote for anyone other than Trump. Only Democrat electors in Colorado and Washington have said they will change their votes. No impact.

Death threats against GOP electors is the exact opposite of civilized behavior and society.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Wow, you think of me as the biggest liar on ATS? I consider myself more of an unapologetic truth bringer to the massive right wing misinformation machine-- but still, I take what you said as a big compliment since I know that calling truth out as lies is a common "fake news" tactic... and to be called the "biggest liar". Thank you.

You're very welcome! And yes...I've followed a few of your posts, even informing others of the depth of your partisan lies and plan to continue to do just that.

Says the author of OPs like

"Bin Laden Crosses the US Border!"

Puhleese....

Oh...yet another genius. That thread was about a reporter crossing the border dressed as Bin Laden and succeeding. Here was the opening quote:

"O'Keefe waded across the border from Mexico into the U.S. wearing a camouflage military jacket and a mask of Osama bin Laden wearing a white turban, with no U.S. Border Patrol agents in sight."

So while I happen to have a marketing background and know how to write a headline, what was your point in bringing up that old thread?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Historical Fact - The Electoral College was created for the specific purpose that the frenzy of the mob would not decide who the Chief Executive is.

The Electoral College is a "checks and balances" system, designed to ensure that the right candidate is nominated president. The "right candidate" is, of course, a matter of "opinion." But, while we all have our opinions, only the opinions of those members of Electoral College that do the actual voting in January matters.

Language Fact - There is no such thing as the "popular mandate." (That's a social and political talking point.)

People invent all sorts of politic talk phrases, mostly meaningless to others who didn't invent them.

Constitutional Fact - Trump is the President Elect from the Nov 8 2016 vote and will be inaugurated on Jan 20 2017.

This is not a fact. The Electoral College is not a "rubber stamp" for the National Election results. You don't need humans to enter votes in January, if all they are required to do is "place their thumb print here."

When the Electoral College meets, they can debate. They can discuss. They can sway others opinion. They have "choice". They will vote their conscience. They are not simply state automatons designed to enter the pre-determined will of their state. They have real "voting" power. They really do "vote." They are very important people. Not simply desk clerks with ink stamps. Their job is to "ensure" that the candidate they put in the Oval Office is "fit" for the job, by their own individual judgments. Not by our judgments, but their own judgments.

They don't have to vote for Donald Trump. They may very well decide not to. Especially, since Donald Trump the "president-elect" bears very little resemblance to Donald Trump the "republican-candidate", who sold the people that voted for him a bunch of "signature promises" that he now reveals he has no intention of ever following through on. The remarkable thing is that The Donald has backtracked on all these things before he is even sworn in to Office, and even before the Electoral College meets. He seems to think it's a done deal, and he is already president.

Most candidates wait until they are sworn into Office before they reveal that they are not going to follow through on their campaign promises.

It just shows how little Donald Trump understands of the workings of the American system, that same system he says he is going "To Make Great Again." You can't make America great again, if you don't even know what America is or was. If you betray your own voter base, by immediately reneging on the promises you made to them, as soon as you think you won, what makes you think the Electoral College won't betray your expectations in January, when the actual winner is to be determined by the real vote that actually counts?

You can't have it both ways. Can't expect to betray and not to be betrayed in return.

Who will the Electoral College members vote for, Donald Trump the Campaign-Candidate, or Donald Trump the President-Elect? Where did the Campaign-Candidate go? He is nowhere to be found. The guy that won the National Election vote is missing. There is an imposer sitting in his seat.

The new Donald, isn't even interested in the National Security issues of the state. He is missing all those briefings. Instead, he's running a beauty pageant, having all the beauty queens parade in front the cameras, as they step up to be considered for all the prize winning jobs he's handing out like Christmas gifts to the loyalists. Some of the beauty queens even go on TV and market themselves, explaining why they would be the best person to win this or that prize job. They are contesting, just like Donald's pageants. It's a spectacle, and a circus, and all about getting attention. Marketing the brand: Trump. There are no cameras allowed in the National Security briefings, so no value for the Donald to waste his time sitting in there. Even his own daughter, Ivanka, is marketing her brand, cosmetic jewelry, while being on camera for her fathers serious endeavor. Never miss an opportunity to market your brand. The whole thing is to "be seen", to "be thought" to be doing, but not actually to do.

Look busy, God is coming.

Personal Opinion - Hillary Clinton has no business being President. (Neither does Trump actually, but he got the EC's)

LET

IT

GO

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Historical Fact - The Electoral College was created for the specific purpose that the frenzy of the mob would not decide who the Chief Executive is.

Correct and placed that power in the hands of "electors"...who were afforded the ability to freely choose who they elect.

Constitutional Fact - Trump is the President Elect from the Nov 8 2016 vote and will be inaugurated on Jan 20 2017.

President Elect is like "bride to be"...the union is formalized most of the time, but on rare occasions the voters gets cold feet and don't tie the knot.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Historical Fact - The Electoral College was created for the specific purpose that the frenzy of the mob would not decide who the Chief Executive is.

Correct and placed that power in the hands of "electors"...who were afforded the ability to freely choose who they elect.

True enough. But the Electors in question are selected by the party that won the popular vote in their state. So the states that voted Republican have Electors that were selected by the Republican party of those states.

The same state Republican parties that nominated Trump in the first place at the National Convention.

And in most cases the selected Electors are party insiders.

So if they vote contrary to the party nominee, they will most likely lose their insider status.

So really, not a major concern.

President Elect is like "bride to be"...the union is formalized most of the time, but on rare occasions the voters gets cold feet and don't tie the knot.

Also true, but such a mass swap has not taken place in over 100 years.

www.fairvote.org...

In the last century there has been at most a single instance of cold feet per election. It is fair to assume that the political parties are usually able to identify the trustworthy electors in their ranks.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

All true...including the historical unusualness of such a thing..

But as I outline in my post here... Indigo5

Trump's margin of loss in the popular vote is also unusually large...only twice in our history has a President been elected with a greater margin of loss...Once when Congress over-rode everyone and elected Jackson...and once when they put Hayes into office and traded 20 electors in agreement that the Northern Republicans would abandon the souths reconstruction and leave them alone.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: spirit_horse

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: JinMI


Hillary Clinton is the winner of the popular vote by over 2 million votes. She's it. The people of The United States voted and she won. For her to not become President of the United States, would mean the Electors effectively 'vetoed' the vote of the American people by voting in someone else as President.

Pretty amazing when you add in all the illegals and dead voters that voted illegally for Killary. The left has shown the country why we should never let them win again.

PROVE IT

You sound just like, ummm...who was that guy?

Oh yeah....Obama!

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

So how can I possibly determine what's right? Well, luckily I was born with a brain and conscience and I am also well educated.





When a candidate says it's rigged if he loses and not if he wins... Well that's just a kindergarten lesson in the meaning of hypocrisy.

So many more things I could point to... Trump is an idiot. And he's a dangerous idiot. And his followers reject real journalists in favor of twitter and conspiracy theory.

LOL. And THEN... these batsh#t fake news chugging zombies accuse my thread of being lies. Yeah... lies like Climate Change.

For being so well educated, you present yourself as something the complete opposite. Trump is far from being a idiot, as is Obama, whom I believe has a I/Q of around 150, and stated, “Nevertheless, we stand behind our election results, which accurately reflect the will of the American people,” .

Your bid for Crooked Hillary to win the electorate vote only shows your lack of knowledge and narrow mindedness.

"Hillary Clinton, now a private citizen after conceding the election to Donald Trump, wants in on the recount effort Green Party nominee Jill Stein launched Friday, even though she previously called such a notion “horrifying.”

dailycaller.com...





Ask the people of Haiti, how they feel about[SNIPPED] Hillary, they surely did not vote for [SNIPPED] Hillary, it appears Hillary took the relief money 2 Billion and deposited at least 1.8 Billion of it in Qatar, which strangly has no extradition agreement with the US. Plus what good is it being President if your going to prison.


The bad thing about Climate Change is that it has been proven time and again that, those involved feel a constant need to falsify the input data. Being caught doing this is not good if trying to convince someone that a problem really exist, and is not just some carbon Tax fraud.

Talk about fake news you watch to much MSN, you know the rothschilds bought Reuters around 1875, then later Associated Press. What did you say your IQ was, it must be going down if that's where you get you info. And it's not " Conspiracy Theorist" that the government connotation, it's "Comprehensive Investigators".

Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Comedy gold. Your posts get better by the day.

I don't even know where you picked up this one.

Do you even know what Nazism is? Contrary to popular belief it is not a catch-all term for every random ideal, value or policy you happen to find abhorrent.

This applies to other severely misused ideologies, such as Fascism, Communism and Socialism to name a few.

If you want an example of genuine "Neo-Nazis" (which itself is a broad generalisation for groups that contain profoundly ignorant people who often have contradicting beliefs) then look up the Ukrainian Right Sector, the Greek Golden Dawn, Combat 18, or the Anerican National Socialist Movement.

Alternatively you could watch the first half of that American History X film.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

So sad that you want something you won't get...... what if the winner of the popular vote did so by nefarious methods? Would you still be for the will of the people?

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: JinMI


Hillary Clinton is the winner of the popular vote by over 2 million votes. She's it. The people of The United States voted and she won. For her to not become President of the United States, would mean the Electors effectively 'vetoed' the vote of the American people by voting in someone else as President.

Geez you really are desperate eh dude?
Get over it already.
Like several posters already said, if you get rid of all the illegal alien votes and the dead people votes...ALSO the idiots that voted 5 times for the sneaky, snake in the grass Liberals, the witch loses the popular vote by a landslide.
Let it go my friend or move to another country, I hear Germany needs more refugee loving Liberals.

I allowed my anger to overwhelm my civility. My apologies.

a reply to: seagull

I'm approaching unforgivable territory? Go whine to your p###y-grabber in chief. The scumbag who brags about walking in on teen girls naked without their consent as an entitlement of owning a pageant. Go whine to that mentally ill P-elect surrounding himself with alt-right, or First Order, or white nationalists or whatever the white xenophobic racist aggressors are calling themselves these days.

You know exactly what his party is.

a reply to: Indigo5
Have I anywhere stated I completely agree with President Elect Trump ? Uhmm, no
It is a watch and wait now.