Jill Green - Election Integrity depends on YOU! - Recounts in MI, PA, & WI

a reply to: ketsuko

I would like a audit of all electronic voting. If they have been hacked that needs to be known.

As for the states that donald lost only he or the 3rd parties can challenge them.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: ketsuko

I would like a audit of all electronic voting. If they have been hacked that needs to be known.

As for the states that donald lost only he or the 3rd parties can challenge them.

Then you don't need to audit Michigan since it doesn't have electronic voting.

The problem with this particular recount call is that Hillar ... I mean Stein is calling for a recount in the three states that no one expected to swing Trump. And to call it election integrity based on electronic voting inconsistencies is a bad call when one of the states in question doesn't even use electronic voting.

If election integrity itself is all that motivates Stein, then her concern would be nationwide and not just three very particular states.

Basically, the facts do not add up.

a reply to: ketsuko

Then you don't need to audit Michigan since it doesn't have electronic voting.

false

Just about every state uses some form of electronic voting. Not in all counties.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Not according to the Detroit Free Press who interviewed the man in charge of Michigan's elections. You fill out your ballot and put it in the box and then they count the ballots which is why the official results were only just certified.

a reply to: ketsuko

Those states are critical states, so testing to see if cyberattacks were done there versus all over. However, this is about the Green Party's election integrity principle going into the next election season. What's done is done, but we can better prepare to help assure Americans that every vote will be hack/tamper free in the future. No better time than after this election to ensure a clean future election with no doubts of rigging or cyberattacks.

a reply to: ketsuko

What he said was they do not use the same machines as what is used in those other states.

Seems like the same type we use in my county which are the same type that were called out for being hacked years ago.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: desert

Well if that's the case, then we should have a national recount and re-do ... I mean recount every single state. After all, election integrity is very important and we would hate for one ballot to go uncounted in any state, not just the three everyone thought would go for Hillary and didn't.

Well said. Funny how that works isn't it. But no..not intended to help Hillary at all. I said this a while back, Russia did not back us. We "hacked" us and it was done to be able to set up an excuse if the election didn't go the way they wanted. That's exactly what happened and that's what we're seeing now. Why people who don't trust our Govt believed that story is beyond me and makes no sense. It was all a set up. It's called planting the seeds.

Also, I believe the deadline for filing for a recount coming up for each state staring tomorrow for one of them. I would assume if that state doesn't file, it would make zero sense for any of the others to file.

a reply to: ketsuko

Michigan uses optical scanners to count the votes. Their particular scanners are technologically ancient, not in best shape.

ETA Michigan's aging voting machines a 'catastrophe waiting to happen'

a reply to: ketsuko

Then you don't need to audit Michigan since it doesn't have electronic voting.

Optical scanning is a form of electronic voting.

a reply to: ketsuko

There are many reasons why it takes time to certify votes. Here's an example of just one county in Calif

After polling places close at 8 p.m. on Election Day, all voted ballots are sealed, secured and transported by sheriff’s deputies to be centrally tabulated at the RR/CC headquarters.... Election Night counts include ballots at the polling places as well as Vote by Mail ballots received and processed up until Monday before Election Day.

Counting votes does not end on Election Night. The RR/CC makes sure all ballots cast are counted. After Election Night in a statewide election, there are thousands of ballots that need to be counted, including Vote by Mail ballots received on Election Day, provisional ballots, write-in ballots and damaged ballots. These ballots are counted during the 30-day period known as the Official Election Canvass. Ballots require additional review to verify voters are eligible to vote and write-in ballots were cast for qualified candidates.

California state law requires the RR/CC to complete and certify results within 30 days. This provision of the law recognizes the complexity of completing the ballot count and conducting a thorough audit of the election results to ensure accuracy.

Los Angeles County

I live in a rural area, but the same procedures happen. And Calif quit using the most vulnerable of voting machines a few years ago..

originally posted by: reldra


Some of you have no idea what you bought. Some of you actually stated you didn't know what you bought, but the closed, unknown box looked better. Like The Price is Right. God luck with that.

Yes, We avoided world war three because Hillary wanted war against Russia which would have killed us all.
Her own words:



The fact that she wants WAR with a nation who happens to have nuclear power tells us all she is insane.

Aside from that: Pizzagate



Don't bother trying to politically correct your way out of this one. The world is very angry. And rest assured the pitch forks are coming.


face it, Hillary is DONE. One way or another. Lock her up

originally posted by: SoulSurfer

originally posted by: reldra


Some of you have no idea what you bought. Some of you actually stated you didn't know what you bought, but the closed, unknown box looked better. Like The Price is Right. God luck with that.

Yes, We avoided world war three because Hillary wanted war against Russia which would have killed us all.
Her own words:

The fact that she wants WAR with a nation who happens to have nuclear power tells us all she is insane.

Aside from that: Pizzagate

Don't bother trying to politically correct your way out of this one. The world is very angry. And rest assured the pitch forks are coming.


face it, Hillary is DONE. One way or another. Lock her up

All fantasies. The world is not very angry. Most of America had a really nice and peaceful Thanksgiving. Calm down.

The well-respected University of Michigan election security expert who set off a firestorm with a hypothesis that the 2016 presidential election could have been hacked in three swing states has cleared some of the smoke, writing in a blog that the election was “probably not” hacked, but the only way to know for sure is to immediately audit the results. J. Alex Halderman also said in the Wednesday blog post that a New York Magazine report that he and election lawyers were pressuring Hillary Clinton to contest results in the three states incorrectly characterized what had taken place. He wrote that he wanted to “set the record straight about what I and other leading election security experts have actually been saying to the campaign and everyone else who’s willing to listen.”

Right then, so the idea is to make sure something that probably didn't happen really didn't happen.
It's no wonder liberals have run the western world into the ground with that type of thinking.

Maybe they can spend some time and considerable money devising a way to ensure the sun comes up tomorrow - after all it's a possibility that it won't.

originally posted by: desert
a reply to: ketsuko

Michigan uses optical scanners to count the votes. Their particular scanners are technologically ancient, not in best shape.

ETA Michigan's aging voting machines a 'catastrophe waiting to happen'

And then after the optical scan count is reported which is the first tally, they do an actual hard count of the ballots themselves which is why Michigan's results haven't been certified until today. So they go with the scan first and then verify by hand count.

So why recount when they paper ballots have been counted again?

Entirely possible Clinton will want no part of it... because of a high probability that any "inconsistencies" were in Clinton's favor.

Don't be surprised if this idea gets dropped. Of course, the other consideration, is that organizations like The Open Society Foundation (Soros) would love to see chaos.

The guy runs a hedge fund for cripes sake... chaos is where he makes his money.

a reply to: ketsuko

And then after the optical scan count is reported which is the first tally, they do an actual hard count of the ballots themselves

Yes, they make sure that the number of ballots that they run through the optical scanner matches the number of voters. That's all. There is only one tabulation (tally), done by the optical scanner. There is no hand tabulation (tally) except for write-in votes

all ballots are tabulated, including absentee ballots (if applicable) and ballots that may have been placed in the auxiliary bin requiring duplication or due to an emergency. Generate at least 3 totals tapes.

the number of ballots tabulated equals the number of voters according to the List of Voters; if not, a remark has been made to explain the discrepancy.

Record all valid write-in votes exactly as they were cast . Include any name variations or name misspellings which may appear and show vote tallies as illustrated below. Election Inspectors completing this process are creating a record for the Board of Canvassers to use when certifying votes for official write-in candidates.

pdf Michigan source

Let's say that 5 ballots with 5 votes are optically scanned but only 4 votes are tabulated. It would need a hand recount to verify that there were indeed 5 votes cast. Besides checking for machine scanning problems, a hand count of paper ballots after an election could pick up evidence of hacking/tampering, where machines tabulation results differ from actual hand paper ballot tabulation results.

Another consideration is

Even optical scanners used with paper ballots present many problems. Most current scanners in Michigan have exceeded their useful life and can no longer count with sufficient accuracy. Wisely, many states already require that election results be audited after the fact. Most worthwhile are audits of the vote count and the most cost-effective are statistical or risk limiting audits. Knowing that such audits will be conducted discourages most kinds of election rigging. If we were to do them routinely after every election (Michigan does not!) voters would be greatly reassured.

source

a reply to: ketsuko

So why recount when they paper ballots have been counted again?

Following my post above. The votes on the paper ballots were only tabulated (if by "counted" you mean tallied/tabulated) by optical scanner. There was no hand tabulation/"counting"/tallying (except write-in) after the scan.

The recount Stein wants involves hand tallying from the paper ballots. It brings up memories of the pix of the workers hand tallying the votes on the paper ballots in the hanging chad recount in Florida.

a reply to: desert

If that were the case, then the tally would have matched. They would not have discovered that Hillary actually had about 530 more votes than the scan tally showed. Somehow, by only counting to see that the hard copy ballots matched in number, they discovered that discrepancy.

a reply to: ketsuko

Most elections are not close. We hear unofficial results on election nights that usually still mean someone can be declared a winner before the official (certified) results come in.

There is a ton (at least to me!) of paperwork to be filled out election night at the precinct level. The paperwork is sent to the county level, to be inspected for errors in the paperwork. Uncounted/tabulated ballots at the precinct level (for whatever reason) are counted/tabulated at the county level. More paperwork is generated by the county certifiers and sent to the state for state certification.

If a precinct is late in their paperwork, if a county is late in their paperwork, it all means the unofficial totals can change. If an election is not close, we never hear about a candidate picking up a few (relatively speaking) more votes over his/her opponent at the time all the paperwork is accumulated, inspected for correctness and certified. 565 more votes in one county after certification is not unusual. It only means something in this particular race to people, because some people are watching closely.

Bottom line, no one is hand tabulating all the paper ballots to arrive at a certified result. Michigan will only hand tabulate ALL the ballots for a recount.

MANUAL FOR BOARDS OF COUNTY CANVASSERS 140 pg pdf

Explicitly outlines duties and gives paperwork examples for the county level board who collect and certify precinct forms.