Women shouldn't be allowed abortion

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
I've never understood why it's a more attractive proposition for women to have an abortion than to put the child up for adoption.

Throw a cinder block in a backpack and wear it over your stomach for 4 months. All the time. To bathe, to bed, no taking it off.

Then come back and make that statement.

Well written reply.

But, in order to grasp the point being made you must first understand that "a woman's body is public property". And some American Jihadists will "murder" those who don't share their sacrosanct views of life.

When the Church and medical doctors advocated circumcisions "to prevent little boys from masturbating", these powerful institutions would tolerate no criticism, either. And, those who advocated spanking of children didn't seem to notice if the "proctor, teacher, principal or executioner" was sporting an erection while thwacking children.

Some people couldn't sleep at night when little boys controlled their own "wedding tackle", and some can't sleep because women are sovereign individuals, free to make their own life decisions.

originally posted by: soulwaxer
a reply to: omniEther

A long time before I had my three children, I was for abortion. Not anymore.

Becoming a parent hugely increased my appreciation for the miracle of life, and it made me much less selfish for which I am grateful.

Here is how I see it now: Who the f**k am I to play God and decide on life or death? We were all in the womb at one point, and if our mother had decided to abort us, we wouldn't even be talking about any choice in the matter. We would have been snuffed out before we ever got the chance.

The argument "Having her child would ruin the mother's and the baby's life if the mother is poor" is utter crap. There is this thing called adoption. I know several couples who have been waiting in line for 5 years and longer for the chance to adopt. Adoption is a win for the baby and a win for those couples. What the mother "loses" is that she has to carry the child to term and give up her baby which she didn't want in the first place. If anything, this is what we should be talking about.

Then there is the argument "As a woman, I have the right to do what I want with my body." Yes, you do. You have the right to have sex. You have the right to become pregnant, and you have the right to use birth control (which should be free, subsidised, for all women). But you DO NOT have the right to do what you want with the body of your unborn child. Thinking that you do is selfish, plain and simple. This is my opinion, though it has taken me many years to reach. I am not religious, but I do consider myself spiritual.

I have had to give up many things for my children, but I have never once regretted it. Life has given me many beautiful moments before I had children, and after that, I mostly enjoy giving my children beautiful moments. NOTHING can compete with that!

soulwaxer

So essentially you just said...you have the right to use birth control then snuck in the reality of (btw it's hard to get sometimes)

And sorry to break tow things to you but....

1. Your story is your own, and while you did make it a point to tell us this was opinion, you don't have to right to decide what other women's rights are

2. your story is NOT indicative of the remainder of the world.

Here's where it all crashes and burns

1. The whole idea of women's rights of a clump of tissue is...my opinion...bogus. When the fetus is viable then I would agree abortion is no longer an option. But you want to force a woman to carry to term, hence making her 9 months against her will.

2. The whole "adopt" thing is BS as well. Let's talk reality.

www.ccainstitute.org...

21% of foster care kids left in foster care. Many of them age out which means literally pushing them out the door with nothing. No more structure.

www.helpinghandhome.org... %20Child%20Abuse%20and%20Foster%20Care.pdf

32.3% experienced 8 or more placements. Constant placement shifts in formative years can cause instability.

americanspcc.org...

1/4 of age outs incarcerate. 1/2 of age outs without a HS diploma

On and on and on

But since I also like personal stories. Let me talk to you about my time as a psychotherapist in a residential treatment center

My time there was extremely eye-opening. Violence, anger, rage, trauma, depression, and severe mental illness were the daily grind. Kids unwanted and who spent years in foster care and institutions who cannot control their own minds and bodies. I've seen staff lose fingers in attempted safety holds. I'd seen a kid dislocate a knee of a staff member. I've seen a kid stomp on the throat of another staff member.

This was in a two month period and it happens all over in great thanks to kids in the foster care system. There are nasty people who take advantage of foster care to make child sex slaves and other atrocities.

Now of course this is not the majority...but I think maybe you should and your friends who adopt should spend some time in the ACTUAL system so they can see the dirty and unnoticed side of foster care and adoption. We hear all about the wins as you stated, but don't want to talk about the major losses.

This is why I get pissed at the anti-choice crowd. And yes I am calling them anti-choice since it is free speech and I get to be called anti-life.

Anti-choice crowds always get the argument of human rights while they ignore the rights of the women, THEN ignore the disgraces and tortures of children, families, and society after birth.

I am not saying this part is YOU specifically, but I hear this BS. Your rights as a human matter...UNTIL you are born. Then how DARE these people ask for help from the system when they were forced to term when they couldn't afford it. How DARE they make the foster system even worse. How DARE....etc etc.

You are cared about until you are born...then told what a piece of **** you are for harming society.

a reply to: KyoZero

and, our modern day foster care system is probably one of the kindest solutions to the problem of unwanted, uncared for children that history shows. there are plenty of adoptable kids in the foster care system and at least in my area, it is far cheaper to adopt a kid out of the system, and yet, we have couples traveling halfway around the world to adopt...
makes no sense to me. and if you adopt out of the system, you are given extra perks, like support and training, possibly even a free medicaid card for the kid till adulthood. no, they aren't you perfect little baby, they are older and might come with some baggage that they might need a little help to clear out. so what, that little baby is gonna be growing up and collecting baggage everyday that they might need a little help to clear out also.

I started this post claiming that the foster care system is one of the kindest solutions, no it's not perfect but it's goal is to place every child into a loving family environment. it's not meeting that goal now, the social workers are overstaffed and quite honestly, it's a very hard job, those workers don't last long because of the emotions that are brought into play in their own psyche, and there aren't enough foster parents willing to take in the children. we have many kids in group homes still waiting for a foster home to move into, let alone someone to adopt them! I don't believe the system itself could handle the great influx of kids that would occur if abortion wasn't an option. especially if they removed that option from pregnancies where there is a severe defect involved.

a reply to: omniEther

You've stated something as fact, with out posting a source, be it credible or not. Cite the source of "Majority of women who have abortion were not raped and/or did not commit incest. " or recant. Your source best not be an anti-abortion organizationm either, that is called a biased source.

The species (Homo sapiens) is over populating the plant, thus forgive me for not being outraged.

a reply to: Noinden

Women living with a partner to whom they are not married account for 25% of abortions but only about 10% of women in the population (NAF).


,women who had not aborted in the past accounted for 55.7% of all abortions; women with one or two prior abortions accounted for 35.6%, and women with three or more prior abortions accounted for 8.6% (CDC).


On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).


One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF).

US abortion statistics

Pope Francis: "Pope Francis extends Catholic priests' power to forgive abortion"

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: omniEther

So you can actually cite? Why did you not in the first place?

Again I am not in any way shape or form horrified by these statistics. Humans are not an endangered species, they are in fact over popualted. Thus the kinder thing to do is not to have every single child.

a reply to: Noinden

a reply to: omniEther

That meme you shared is a fallacy. You also have dodged the point. We are not a endangered species. You are making this an emotive answer rather than one based on logic.

I will break it down for you. I is indeed kinder not to give birth to every single viable human, than to enforce that we do.

So what is your issue? It seems to be a religious one, rather than a moral one

a reply to: Noinden

It's not a meme.

I am not religious.

"We are not endangered" So what the cup is not half-empty. By that same logic it is also not half-full because every human could fit in Texas, we are not over populated.

I am also not even against abortion as I have stated earlier, by the same train of logic you have provided one could conclude its ok to kill babies for financial reasons.

your arguements are very unfounded

a reply to: omniEther

Its also not the truth, unless you think every human is the same shape and size, requires no oxygen to breathe, room to move, etc

In essence you tried to use a non-sequitur to argue. Humans require space. We also affect the rest of the word. QED.

My arguments are not unfounded . Is tated my opinion. Abortion is not morally objectionable to me. You are using emotive language to try and gain a higher ground. Yet more logical fallacies.

a reply to: Noinden

There's plenty space the state of Texas is actually more than enough. And even if wasn't how about Florida plus Calofornia plus Texas that's even more space.

How about the entire USA way more than enough space to house 7.3 billion people, Let alone the entire globe,

So your overpopulation theory is a hoax. What else makes abortion morally sound in your opinion?

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: Noinden

On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).

US abortion statistics

Um... it's been awhile since I've had to do fractions but I'm pretty sure your math is wrong. 3/4 (75%) + 3/4 (75%) + 1/2 (50%) = 2 (200%) Where's your citation for these numbers? Because either they are made up or completely false just on the basis of Grade 3 mathematics.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Numbers are correct

a reply to: omniEther

okay, we'll dump all the unwanted children in america into the open spaces of texas.... even the little bitty ones...
let's see how they fare!! you do realize that a rather large part of texas is kind of desert like, right?? wonder if these little ones will know how to get water in a desert, who will feed them, provide them with clothing, gee, considering how cold it can get at night, hope they know how to build a shelter.....

are you getting my point yet?? regardless of weather there's is actual room, there isn't enough caretakers willing to take them in as their own!! heck no, americans will feel more mercy for some kid halfway around the world and run to adopt them than the ones in their own backyard.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog
3/4 of the women are afraid that taking time off work to have the kid will get them fired, and one thing is for sure, if they get fired, they certainly wouldn't be able to afford a child, their husband knows this also and has already said that if the women has the baby, he just ain't gonna deal with working two jobs to provide for it, and thus, she will be a single parent....


see, it makes sense!!!

a reply to: omniEther

Hate to break it to you but they're not. Ceiling is 100℅ and your numbers hit 200℅. Your source is incorrect.

a reply to: omniEther

Shifting of the goal posts has begun .... I will take this as an admission that you have lost. Have a great day neighbor

a reply to: dawnstar

I was speaking hypothetically, there's no need to stray into the semantics of it.

My point is that there is undoubtedly enough space on earth. So I would like you to provide a different counter-arguement

You are correct I don't know what happens if they are born, who they will become or who adopts them or whatever, and it's not the point.

I'm merely asking for a coherent and rational response to the arguement in justification for the basis of your perspective.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog
Numbers are correct.

If providing a multiple choice sheet then seeing the 3 highest statistically rated answers.

75% of women agreed to one of the multiple options. Another 75% of the same women surveyed also agreed to a second choice from the multiple choices provided, And 50% agreed to a 3rd.