Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

a reply to: desert

Some of that, I believe, is a knee-jerk reaction to 'winning' the election. I put 'winning' in quotes because from where I sit, no one except the candidates have 'won' anything yet... we're hoping we 'win' a better life, and happy we might not 'lose' (have a harder life) any more.

I also want to point out something about those words that people just don't seem to understand.

When I grew up, the N-word was in widespread use. I have used it myself a lot... practically everyone here did. It was a time of changing racial attitudes. My generation was coming to understand that there was only a cultural difference between the races, and even that difference was minor. But the word was in use. It meant nothing more than "black person."

It could be used negatively; any word can. If someone said it with a sneer, or in the wrong context, yes, it was racist. But that wasn't how it was normally used. As I said, to us... including people in both races in my generation... it was not a slur in itself.

I remember talking with my great uncle. He was a fine man, a mountain man who kept to himself and never wished anyone evil. But he believed in his heart that black folk weren't really people... they were close, and it wasn't their fault, but they just didn't evolve good. My parents had nothing against black folk... they were people too... but the races just weren't meant to be together. The first black person to come to my house was a friend of mine, and it shocked my parents a little. My generation held us all as equals, with one caveat... mixed marriage was still taboo. My children don't care; they see no difference. Things really do change, and with age even generations change. I overcame that last bastion some years back.

I have to diverge here a bit to mention White-Eye. I don't even know his real name; I don't think anyone does, including him. White-Eye is an old black man who lives near me. He's retired now, from working on road equipment for the state, but he works on small engines to keep himself busy. When I was working for the Census, another worker asked me if I knew where an address was. I recognized it: White-Eye. So I took him to White-Eye. We got out of the car, and there sat White-Eye in his rocker, surrounded by mowers and tillers and various machines, with his old hound dog lying around his feet. We walked up and I said, "Hey White-Eye!"

White-Eye: "Well! How you doing?"

Me: "Got a feller here from the Census says you've been hiding from him."

White-Eye: "I been right here. What you need, boy?"

My friend: " Good morning sir. I'm from the US Census Bureau and I'd like to ask you a few questions..."

White-Eye (interrupting): "You can ask me anything as long as you're not a N#####. You're not a N#####, are you? We don't let N#####s around here." (My friend is white and White-Eye is as dark as a piece of coal.)

My friend just stopped and stood there in shock. White-Eye held his composure for a moment, then busted out laughing. I was already having trouble holding the laughter in. My friend finally realized it was a joke. White-Eye does that to everyone... it's his way of saying that the words don't matter... only people matter, and we're all the same.

I have driven all over this country in a semi, and I know that there are precious few places outside the Deep South where folk like White-Eye exist. Most places are far too uptight about race relations, and we're backing up in that respect too thanks to the silly idea of changing words to stop actions. But I for one am glad to know White-Eye. He's a pillar of our community and a good friend. I need to get my tiller back to him for a tune-up sometime.

But back to my original train of thought...

I think I was in my early 20s when I first heard the word was supposed to be a slur. I remember being surprised that some thought that, but what the hay... it's just a word, right? I can use another word. The problem was, and is, that it's just not that simple to break a verbal habit. I finally, after years of biting my tongue and trying to cover up those little "almost slips," I think I finally broke it... although I am still subject to an occasional slip if I am agitated enough. Old habits just die hard.

But here's the thing: as I mentioned, that was a time of changing social attitudes, and as usual, my generation, the younger generation, was on the front lines of that change. I know all about racism. I watched people unable to buy homes because of their skin color. I knew of companies where no one was black except maybe the janitors. I have known people who threatened to walk out if a black man was hired. I remember "N##### Hill," where the black folk lived. I watched KKK rallies, have seen the marching white robes and burning crosses. I have personally been asked twice to join the Klan; turned them down cold both times. Yeah, I know racism, and it ain't a word. It's actions. It's attitudes. It's irreverent hatred. All those things can happen without a word being spoken.

So somebody said the "N-word." I say whoopdie-do, what else is new. Did they beat someone for the color of their skin? Did they force somebody to live where they didn't want to because their skin was too dark? Did they deny someone a job because of dark skin? Did they threaten anyone for being black? Because that's racism. And it's wrong... period!

People are people. Hate is hate. Words are words. It's time to quit confusing them.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

When I grew up, the N-word was in widespread use. I have used it myself a lot... practically everyone here did.

And when I grew up (same time you did, my friend), we lived among blacks and whites and native americans, and the foreign students who came to our university town.

My parents CONSCIOUSLY CHOSE to have us live not in a "white middle-class ghetto" as my mom calls it --- not a bubbled enclave of only white people who thought that no one else was worthy. We NEVER used the "n" word. We were taught it was bad manners, crude and obnoxious. I was born in 1958. We were taught not to litter. We did not use profanity in our house. We had classical music and books all around us. We went to church, but didn't make it the focus of our lives.

Community was the focus. Not "the Bible." Helping people. Being kind and not snobby. Accepting others for where they simply "are." I have that same respect for you. Sadly, I don't feel it is reciprocated, and I think that's due to you not reading or caring enough to get to know me better.

I was raised with the idea to respect everyone regardless of their station in life, their financial standing, their color, their job, their heritage. I'm finding it very hard to find others who are like that --- who were taught the value of a dollar, of family, of hard work....

I've done my part here, and I won't apologize for it. I want peace, and for people to feel secure.
Trump is not making peace or making me feel secure. And the "sore winners" thing has really really really battered the ATS membership. I know you mods are aware of it.

The "Trump" fans refuse to hear us. They don't want to understand really where we are coming from. They just want us to shut the hell up and "deal with it." Well - that's rather dismissive and hurtful, not to mention scary. Stop stereotyping people who didn't vote for Trump. That will make it easier for us to stop assuming all Trump voters are hateful bigots.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

That, I think, is why I have attached myself to this thread. I am learning about people. I have learned, for example, that my comments about California are insulting to Annee... that desert may disagree with me on a lot of issues but is a good person with a good heart and in many ways is a 'kindred spirit'... and now I see where you are coming from.

The beauty of the Internet... without it, we would never know each other existed.

I'll make no bones about the fact I totally despise Chicago. I have had more problems with traffic, met more angry people, and seen more senseless violence there than anywhere else I have been... and that includes Queens, L.A., Boston, Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas-Fort Worth, New Orleans, Saint Louis... but I also know there are little suburbs around it that aren't as bad. I could never be happy living where you live. But I suspect the reverse is also true. You would be miserable living here the way I do.

All I am saying is that we can both be happy. All we have to do is allow each other to be.

There is a lot of animosity down here towards 'liberals' and 'Yankees.' It comes from our little version of Hell, back during the War of Northern Aggression. The civilian devastation taught our ancestors that outsiders destroyed and killed. The Carpetbaggers showed them that outsiders stole. Policies forced onto us have shown us that outsiders hate us. So it is no wonder that the animosity exists. It should have dissipated by now, but for a constant stream of influence to reinforce it.

There used to be a saying here: "Yankees come and visit; Damn Yankees come and stay." That came about because quite a few Yankees did come and stay, and brought their 'ways' with them... and those 'ways' often made no sense in our culture. So there is a resistance to anything new, and that resistance will grow as long as new ideas are forced on us. No one likes to have things forced on them.

Just imagine if our concept of all social activity centered on the church were forced on you... looked down on because you missed Sunday service, visited by church members over and over because you stayed home... here we think of it as normal, because attending church on Sunday is being part of the neighborhood and the visits are to ensure everything is OK. It wouldn't likely go over that way with you, because you don't have that cultural basis.

And I don't want you to. It would be wrong to try and force that on you. Just like it is wrong for someone to try and force things on us.

So perhaps it is you who needs to reassess your "impression" of "Midwestern liberals."

That's precisely what I am doing here... trying to understand our differences. Can you do the same?

Is that acceptable?

I have no 'requirement of acceptability' that you must adhere to, Buzzy. I accept you as you are.

But I would love to have one of those bumper stickers...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't live in Chicago.

I was born there. My parents lived in Lake County in a little tiny town called Grayslake. When I was five, we moved to Wichita. Then when I was 10 we moved to Lawrence -- KU. Free state country. On the Lewis&Clark trail.

I live outside of Kansas City.

Next to the Missouri river (did I already say that? Yes, I did) and on a tiny patch of hill-country between the Kansas River and the Missouri river --- just a couple of miles from where the two join. It's right ON THE LEWIS AND CLARK TRAIL, the scenic route - the back highways, and small towns that are now all sort of 'glued' together.

ugh....I just really during this edit just typed out pages one and two of my fam history -- as if it matters or needs to be recorded. (It is already, but ATS is not a seemly place to record it.)

sheesh. See? SEE?? You were not paying attention to me. Annee and desert, yes, you paid attention. But me? No. You tuned me out.


Furthermore, I would also not "hate" living where you do,

and I can prove to you that I have often made plans to actually GO LIVE THERE --- my husband and I were going to move to Greenville or Savannah. We actually looked for real estate there. I lived in the small ski towns of Summit County Colorado during the early 80s. Again full of foreigners and people from all over this country.....

so you see -- just by reading this post, you can have learned something else.

I grew up in KANSAS - the north-eastern section of KANSAS.
But you didn't pay attention well enough to realize that.

See how you are?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yes, we are about the same age. And yes, your area was probably ahead of us back then on the racial thing.

Community was the focus. Not "the Bible." Helping people. Being kind and not snobby. Accepting others for where they simply "are."

Believe it or not, the Bible tells us to be kind and help others. I could show you where the Bible says we are not to control others... but I don't think it would be appreciated.

I have that same respect for you. Sadly, I don't feel it is reciprocated, and I think that's due to you not reading or caring enough to get to know me better.

That really confuses me, Buzzy. The very reason I am still in this thread us to try and understand you better. I do think you have made little attempt to try and understand me better, but I have hope.

A prime example is in that last quote. I understand you don't place any faith in the Bible or religious leanings, and I have no problem with that. But I don't think you are very familiar with the Bible either, because you just made an insulation that it is against kindness or acceptance. I am not asking you to read it (it's a huge book and not very easy to read), but it would be nice if you would consider that there may be aspects to it you are not familiar with.

Understanding works both ways. It's not a case of one side getting their way while the other capitulates.

Trump is not making peace or making me feel secure.

Is it his job to make you feel secure? And if it is, was it not then Obama's job to make me feel secure? I did not feel secure under Obama, Buzzy.

The "Trump" fans refuse to hear us. They don't want to understand really where we are coming from. They just want us to shut the hell up and "deal with it." Well - that's rather dismissive and hurtful, not to mention scary. Stop stereotyping people who didn't vote for Trump. That will make it easier for us to stop assuming all Trump voters are hateful bigots.

There again, for eight years I have felt as though I no longer had a voice. I felt threatened by the constant calls of "racist," "sexist," "homophobe"... when I knew things had been improving here. How many times do I hear how the South is "racist" or "backwards"? You even said it yourself.

There's going to be some backlash after all that, Buzzy. There's no way around it. But I for one want to minimize that backlash. I want to see the country united again. But both sides have to give a little for that to happen. No one should control others.

It's in the Bible.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

But I don't think you are very familiar with the Bible either, because you just made an insulation that it is against kindness or acceptance. I am not asking you to read it (it's a huge book and not very easy to read), but it would be nice if you would consider that there may be aspects to it you are not familiar with.

That is what you think because it is what you are assuming.

I have quite a presence on the spirituality forums. I grew up going to the Episcopal church. My mother was the acolyte director for 40 years. Do not presume to tell me I don't know about the Bible, for you truly know not of what you speak.

Now - it seems to me that my verbosity has exhausted your patience in reading or accumulating in some sort of cohesive pattern all of the collected things I have said on this site for the last few years.

Your mistaken impressions make me sad, but I understand it has a great deal to do with my 'blunt' style, and opinionated effrontery. I'm a social worker.

Anyway - glad you are here on the thread - we are doing some important work here, believe it or not.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Kansas City is nice; I like the area. I wouldn't want to live there either, but just because it's so... flat...

I remembered you said something about Chicago, and I knew you lived in the Midwest... but honestly, it's none of my business to know exactly where. I think Annee and desert are in California, but I honestly have no idea where in California.

Where in Alabama do I live? I have mentioned it before on the boards. Do you remember? Do I have kids? How old? How many? Boys or girls?

Greenville is a real pretty area, but far too bustling for my taste. Savanna is a completely different culture from mine. If you do move, I hope you are happy wherever you go. I have no plans to move; I am happy right where I am.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Kansas City is nice; I like the area. I wouldn't want to live there either, but just because it's so... flat...

No. Kansas CITY metro is NOT FLAT.

It is in the glacial hills along the Missouri river. West of Topeka it get's FLAT.

And yes, the southern suburbs are out there in rather "flat" territory.

Glacial Hills of Kansas


Where we live, it is not flat. It looks like Appalachia.

yes, you have grown kids.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yes, it was an assumption, and I accept it was incorrect. But I do not share your opinion that the Bible is against kindness. I cannot fathom where that opinion came from, but it is what it is.

You have made some incorrect assumptions about me as well. I do not consider myself a "Trump fan," for instance. I have hope that his administration will be beneficial to the country and I did vote for him, but I also have reservations. I'm just not going to jump on the "hate Trump" bandwagon until he does something worthy of that move. I wound up riding the "hate Bush" bandwagon after the Patriot Act, and jumped on the "hate Obama" bandwagon pretty quickly, but not in either case until they showed me, by their policies and official actions in office, that it was deserved.

I am also not a registered Republican. I have never been affiliated with either political party, and have never voted party line in my life.

I do not attend any organized church. Surprised? Don't be. I can be religious without having constant lifelong instruction in it. My family is Baptist; I converted to Christian.

We all make assumptions Buzzy. It is not my job to study you before conversing with you; it is your job to point out incorrect assumptions I made... as you have done.

TheRedneck

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Compared to here, yeah, it's flat.

Then again, I suppose someone from West by God Virginia would think it's flat here, too. If they would iron the wrinkles out of that state it would be bigger than Texas.

I've been through there many times; you have some 'bumps' here and there, but it's still pretty flat from Saint Louis to the Rockies... oh, yeah, and I think the Ozarks are in between Saint Louis and Kansas City. Almost forgot about those.

TheRedneck

ETA: I think there's an ice storm heading for that area? If it hits you, please stay safe. Ice is dangerous.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, it was an assumption, and I accept it was incorrect. But I do not share your opinion that the Bible is against kindness. I cannot fathom where that opinion came from, but it is what it is.

I am not OF THE OPINION that JESUS is against kindness. But the stuff about "God" - is truly horrifying. I have to separate the two.

The "God" part of the Bible is horrible. Vile, cruel, insensitive, hostile, negative, violent --- like a sociopathic psycho serial killer. It appears to me that your package of beliefs somehow means that in order to be kind, one must be judgmental and selfish?

JUDGMENTALISM is not appropriately mated with kindness. THE TWO DON'T FIT.


JESUS was PRO-KINDNESS. He was ANTI-JUDGMENT.

He wanted people to give to those in need, do all the Golden Rule stuff that the Buddha and Krishna and every other mythical overlord suggested!
Treat others the way you want to be treated.

So - it causes me a blown fuse when I try to connect how you can hate liberals (who support human rights, equality, health care, education, and respect) while loving and worshipping Jesus; but VOTING FOR THE OPPOSITE of him. I just don't get that.


I just don't see how that gap got bridged. At. All.

Why would Christians not want to do the same things Obama wanted to do? And the liberals want to do? We want to take care of everyone, get the past into its place, and move forward. Yes....I said the South was "behind" earlier.

You took umbrage to that.
But they are, your indignance notwithstanding.


I am frustrated that you don't realize that is my opinion. JESUS WAS about kindness.
He hung out with the left-behind.
He wanted to help them. The Obamas and Dems/Progressives want to help them. Bernie was my hero.


So, here it is: how can you vote for an uber-rich showman billionaire, against your own interests? He does not want to help you!

Obama wanted to help you. So do I. So does Hillary. Obama wanted peace -- he pulled back on the troops (having pledged he would end the war) and that left a void that resulted in a vacuum that allowed ISIS to grow. I have supported Obama's decisions all along. I think we should absolutely BUTT OUT of other people's business. But the weird mixture of "do something!" and "but not with our kids!" turned the ever-simmering lump of hatred into a boiling morass.

I do not understand how people like you think that Trump is somehow more "Christ-like" than Obama. I don't understand why the Christian Conservative Right thinks helping other people is wrong and stupid.

I think we should stop helping Israel, because they are 70 years old and good luck.
I think we should STOP bombing the Middle East and accept the refugees.

I think that the 800,000 children here "illegally" because their parents brought them should be treated like regular citizens. I want everyone in the upper crust to acknowledge that their hotel rooms, and lawns, and meals, and housekeeping, and taxi-driving, and roof-repairs are being done by hard-working people who rent at full market rates, or buy at full market prices, and who pay sales tax and consume goods just like we do.

I do not understand how Bible-cherishers can turn their backs on the elderly and neglected, the indigent and the deprived. I can't wrap my mind around it. I'm trying, though.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, there is an ice storm incoming. We burn wood in our fireplace, and have plenty outside. We have the groceries we need and are good to dig in.

Thanks for your well-wishing. Literally everywhere is "down the hill" from our house. We are on top of the hill. At the heights. Next to a church. A church tucked into a residential neighborhood. I call it our "common" - and it's rarely occupied.


anyway - it's downhill every direction, and it's also uphill.

like a wave. uphill, downhill, uphill, downhill, it's really very beautiful. There are many, many unimproved (left alone) natural caves and gulches and dry creeks and bluffs......even long-abandoned log cabin structures down by the river, and crude dams....

have you seen Last of The Mohicans (Day-Lewis)? It looks like that.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Oh, Buzzy! Thank you! We're getting into real issues now.

how can you vote for an uber-rich showman billionaire, against your own interests? He does not want to help you.

No one in Washington DC wants to help me. I don't expect them to. I really actually get concerned when they want to help me personally. It usually makes things worse in my experience.

I have been unemployed or under-employed since 2008, Buzzy. Obama may want to help me, but the last 8 years have not done so. Bill Clinton helped me by signing the WIA, but I don't think for a moment that he was thinking "this will help TheRedneck some day" when he signed it. Li'l George didn't help me. He was the one who got us into this silly mess in the first place. I'll admit Obama tried to get us out, but he bumbled the job and gave us ISIS.

You know, Jimmy Carter is a great man, and a great humanitarian. He created my favorite charity, Habitat for Humanity. But he made a lousy President. He didn't have what it takes to do the job. If I had to choose who would is the better man, I would choose Ben Carson over Trump any day. But Carson, in my opinion, doesn't have what it takes to be a good President.

I am excited he is HUD secretary... I think he'll bring some realism to the problems of the inner cities. Probably my favorite Cabinet pick to date.

What I want from Washington DC is not for them to help me, but to let me help myself. I trust myself. I know where it hurts before anyone in DC does. Open the economy back up so I have a chance at a good job... get medical costs under control... I can take it from there.

I think we should absolutely BUTT OUT of other people's business.

ABSOLUTELY! We should never have went to war with Hussein... we should never have put Hussein in power actually... but we should also have stabilized the area before we started walking away. I blame Carter for putting Sadam in power, Reagan and Bush Sr. and Clinton for not getting out after we did, Bush Jr. for escalating the situation into a war without good cause, and Obama for leaving the area destabilized. If Trump doesn't take steps to fix things, I'll blame him for that.

We need our military protecting national security interests, not trying to be the private police force for major corporations. The military should only be used when we have to kill people or break things, because that is what they do.

I do not understand how people like you think that Trump is somehow more "Christ-like" than Obama. I don't understand why the Christian Conservative Right thinks helping other people is wrong and stupid.

I have never said Trump is 'Christ-like'... not sure where you got that, but it's a false assumption on your part. He is definitely NOT 'Christ-like' IMO. Other than wanting the freedom to participate in it or not, religion played no role in my decision. My decision was based on my expectation of honesty and integrity in office and economic reasons.

I think we should stop helping Israel, because they are 70 years old and good luck.

I think we spend too much on Israel, and I also think too many turn a blind eye when Israel does bad things. I won't go so far as to say no aid whatsoever, but I would support re-examining our status.

I think we should STOP bombing the Middle East and accept the refugees.

Agreed on stopping the bombing, and no issue with helping refugees, but blind acceptance I have a problem with. First and foremost, there is the possibility of allowing terrorists claiming refugee status into the country, and there are also the problems with our own economic situation and the fact that many don't want to come here; they just want to be safe there.

The local countries should step up as well.

I think that the 800,000 children here "illegally" because their parents brought them should be treated like regular citizens.

That's a difficult issue. On one hand, I do not believe the intent of the Constitution was ever that someone who stepped across a ditch to give birth should be able to declare that baby a citizen. I believe the intent was that anyone born in the US to legal inhabitants would receive citizenship. According to that, they are not citizens.

But the Constitution was not enforced that way, so it's really not the kids' fault for being born here. It's the fault, really, of activists who tried to redefine the intent of the Constitution. Do we punish poor children for the action of activists? That's unconscionable! We really should punish the activists who allowed this situation to develop, but that's practically impossible now... so what do we do?

I suspect they will retain citizenship. But this situation only underscores the desperate need for border control.

I do not understand how Bible-cherishers can turn their backs on the elderly and neglected, the indigent and the deprived. I can't wrap my mind around it. I'm trying, though.

They don't, Buzzy.

The churches around here visit the elderly and provide food. There are several non-affiliated but religious groups who build ramps free of charge for the disabled or supply medical equipment. Many secular charities receive money from various churches. There are private aid programs everywhere you look.

But also consider: people will give freely but can only give what they have. A booming economy helps charities as well as CEOs. As long as we as a society begrudge income to one group, we deny income to all groups... and that hurts the poor who need it worse than anyone.

Good discussion!

TheRedneck

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It sounds beautiful. I have to admit I wasn't aware you had caves or bluffs... what I have seen of the area doesn't look hilly enough for that. You must be hiding them.

I did my final report in my last literature class on "Last of the Mohicans." Love that book!

Uphill/downhill and ice just don't mix well. Please stay put until it's over... more ATS time if the power holds (and I hope it does).

TheRedneck

Right now I'm watching this:

Seeing the Unseen Appalachia (NatGeo)

These are pictures of my immediate area --- my 'range' ------
the sunset and cat are my own photos.

a reply to: TheRedneck

But also consider: people will give freely but can only give what they have. A booming economy helps charities as well as CEOs. As long as we as a society begrudge income to one group, we deny income to all groups... and that hurts the poor who need it worse than anyone.

Yes! That is exactly it!!!!

So why would you vote for people who want to abololish the safety nets, the health-care, the farm subsidies, the housing.....WHY? Why does that make sense to you?

This Pudzer guy ---- Carl's Jr. -----

he wants to abolish the minimum wage.
These people want to exterminate trade unions, don't you see? They DON'T WANT TO HELP you! They don't even pay thir own employees enough to live on!! And you know who makes up for it?

You. And I. And all of us who aren't rich enough to escape the system. A LIVING WAGE is not a bad thing. Unions are not bad things. Neither are housing or food provision "bad things."

Waltons decide "meh, we'll see how far we can push our customers

to not only buy our crap
but also to pay taxes to feed and house our employees who sell it".

Because smiley face.
It's wrong.

I have said that I admire the gesture that Trump will put his foreign profits straight to the treasury. But, if he closes your schools, and stops your assistance, and wipes out your social security, .......

you'd not be upset?

I would.
My husband and I could live off the land. We know how. He is an expert marksman and hunter. I am a gardener and nurse and librarian. We are armed, and informed.

I just don't see how it is acceptable or moral or represents "Christiness" to cut off assistance to our own citizens and working fellow residents.

See, people......watch this...

I am very strongly drawn to the south, and the music and the simplicity and the scenery. I've done my best to keep it in my life.......

Copperhead Road

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So why would you vote for people who want to abololish the safety nets, the health-care, the farm subsidies, the housing.....WHY? Why does that make sense to you?

I honestly don't believe that is the plan.

I want safety nets, but I don't want safety hammocks. Safety nets rescue people from bad decisions, bad circumstances, etc. Safety hammocks keep them nice and comfortable so they have no reason to get back up. Welfare as we know it is a safety hammock, because it actually discourages people from trying to improve themselves. Make too much money this month? We'll cut off your welfare money so next month you're out of luck. I would support maintaining welfare status or food stamps status for six months after becoming ineligible due to income, then phasing it out over six more months. Let people get back up!

Obamacare is starting to deny people health coverage due to high premiums, and wants to fine them for not being able to afford those rising premiums. As predicted. The subsidies don't help people who need the money to pay the premiums now, because they have to wait until tax time to get the money. The reality is that insurance has never cured anyone of anything other than a fat wallet. We need to address costs, not try to increase costs if one doesn't pay the high costs.

Farm subsidies should not be needed. A farm is a business; they should make a profit. And I live in farm country.

If people can get good jobs, they won't need housing subsidies.

I don't want to get rid of any of these; I just want to make them what they're supposed to be: a safety net for time of need, not a lifestyle choice.

he wants to abolish the minimum wage.

I don't see that happening. At worst, he won't support a minimum wage increase.

That might be a good thing. You or I or Trump will never make a company lose money. We might make them close, but who does that hurt? The now-unemployed workers. Without companies, there are no jobs, and without profit, there are no companies. That's just the way it is.

I want everyone to make a living wage, too. They simply can't do that without a job or a business. I want everyone to have a job or business, so I want companies to make a profit. I'm well aware of the income gap, but I also know if there are a hundred applicants for a job, all unemployed, someone is willing to work for low wages. If there are three applicants for a job and two are already employed, there's less chance of someone working for peanuts.

It gets back to what I said earlier: a good economy benefits everyone, from the charity cases to the workers to the CEOs. The whole idea behind minimum wage is to punish companies for 'not sharing the wealth.' Forcing them to pay more just means they will share the wealth less, not more. I was personally laid off once and lost hours twice in menial jobs under this idea of forcing companies to do better by their employees. That did not help me.

Also, I ask you to look at the trend. If minimum wage is increased, labor intensive companies (service companies, about all we have left) have to increase their prices. We then increase minimum wage because it's needed to pay the higher prices. Again, companies have to increase their prices, and again, we have to raise minimum wage... ad infinitum. Eventually, minimum wage will be $1000/hr. and a loaf of bread will cost $250.

I have said that I admire the gesture that Trump will put his foreign profits straight to the treasury. But, if he closes your schools, and stops your assistance, and wipes out your social security, .......

you'd not be upset?

Yes, I would be upset. That's why I don't want the Federal government handling the schools. I can get in the face of the local school board, but I can't get close to Obama or Trump... I can't even lean on the fence outside their house without risking arrest!

I don't see him stopping assistance. At this time, that would immediately collapse what economy we have left and start a social uprising that would cripple the country. That's not what he promised.

Social Security is set in stone...would take a massive Congressional effort to shut it down. I'm not eligible anyway, since I haven't held a full-time job in so long. I guess one could say Obama has already taken my Social Security away.

What could easily kill Social Security is not enough people working to support it. Economy again.

I just don't see how it is acceptable or moral or represents "Christiness" to cut off assistance to our own citizens and working fellow residents.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

I want people to thrive without assistance, to live for a lifetime. That is not the same as wanting to deny assistance.

TheRedneck