Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

I want to clarify for all readers:


My family tree ----


is


German
Scottish
Irish
English
Welsh
Polish
Russian
Finnish
Dutch


THAT is the recipe for creating me.
The part one of the videos I posted earlier is talking about how the South was populated by Germans, Scots/Irish, English tradesmen and so forth.


I COME FROM THERE! Yes, that was the recipe. I'm trying to investigate. Have Been For 40 Years.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TheRedneck

No. It's true. It is neither disrespectful nor bigoted. There are metropolises in the south that are modern --- and classy, educated people there, too. But there is an indisputable unwillingness to conform to anything considered "liberal" there, and for you to deny that is ridiculous. The ultra-conservative no-gays no-abortions dry-county only-Jesus people are holding the south back. For heaven's sake -- some GREAT PEOPLE have come out of the south. Yourself included.....

but in general --- well - it is what it is.

Yes, it is what it is. That is fact.

I do understand the defensive feeling though, as I feel the same way with the remarks about California.

Like the south, it is the major cities in California that are more liberal with higher educated people.

California is an agricultural state, and actually split about 50/50 Conservative/Liberal.

But, in California it is the Liberal Politicians that have been mostly in charge. The Unruh Civil Rights Act was enacted in 1959.

This can change.

a reply to: Annee

I do understand the defensive feeling though, as I feel the same way with the remarks about California.

And I feel the same way about Kansas, except that I never voted for any of the stuff they are doing!!!!

Brownback had his shiny buns handed to him today when the new "State Congress" said: "Erm, no."

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Recently I was working in Texas my home state, Trump land, and I was astonished at the increased arrogance and racist comments I heard. It didn't used to be near that bad. Strange days!

Pandora's box has been opened and evil is in the land.

Thank GOD for comics. For people are able to settle us down, laugh at the whole damn thing, and deliver the antidote to utter despair. THANK GOD FOR THEM.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No. It's true. It is neither disrespectful nor bigoted. There are metropolises in the south that are modern --- and classy, educated people there, too. But there is an indisputable unwillingness to conform to anything considered "liberal" there, and for you to deny that is ridiculous. The ultra-conservative no-gays no-abortions dry-county only-Jesus people are holding the south back. For heaven's sake -- some GREAT PEOPLE have come out of the south. Yourself included.....

Thank you for the compliment.

I will try to reach out to you on your comment that I did take offense to. "Behind" indicates to me (and I am sure to others) an indication that we are somehow unsophisticated, or unevolved even. The simple fact is that we tend to value simpler ways. For instance, many of our ancestors (mine include the "Black Dutch" and Cherokee tribes) were forced out of society and had to learn to live on their own. So we value our land tremendously, because we see great value in self-sufficiency. That could be considered "backward" by someone in a city, I guess, but here it's considered sensible.

"Liberal" proposals are looked at suspiciously, granted. But there is good reason for this. The very term "liberal" indicates a desire to change, and many of us are satisfied with our lives. To convince us to change means convincing us that things won't get worse, not that things are so bad they can't get worse. I am unhappy with many things in society, Buzzy, but I am happy with some things too. I am happy that I can sleep at night listening to crickets and the occasional clock-deprived rooster crowing, instead of sirens and loud ?music? from car stereos. I am happy that I don't have to worry about making sure everything I own is locked up every night. I am happy that I can walk outside tomorrow morning and decide to build a shed without asking for permission from the government. I am happy that I can get fresh free-range eggs out of the little laying-house I built. I am happy that I can grow a garden. I am happy that I can step behind a tree to pee instead of looking for a restroom.

I like those things, and I want to keep those things. They don't exist in more "modern" areas where people have a more "liberal" mindset. I know because I have lived in cities for short periods... the noise at night is deafening to me, not locking the doors is akin to donating property to thieves, it is illegal to have livestock, and stepping behind that tree is prosecutable for Public Indecency and Illegal Disposal of Human Waste. So when a new idea seems similar to what, say, California does, I am suspicious, yes. There is a reason I live in Alabama.

There is a reason you live where you do: you are happy living there (at least I hope and think you are). I have no desire to change your lifestyle, nor to describe it as anything other than "different." I wish you would do me (and the rest of the Deep South) the same honor.

I have absolute sympathy and compassion for the plight of the people down there.

I wouldn't describe it as a plight. It's a choice.

We have issues just like everyone else. I have a frail, sick mother I care for... I really wish she could be vibrant and young again. I have some people in my life that drive me bananas... I really wish they would mind their own business. I wish I had a better house, better heat, lower bills, a better job... plenty of problems. But overall, I still like it here. The good outweighs the bad IMO. You would probably hate it. That's fine; it's your right. But please don't think that we here will agree with you there on every issue. And more importantly, don't try to force us to.

I do believe you want to help others, Buzzy. But I do not think you understand us.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING to build this bridge, man?

I'm trying to explain that a bridge need not be an annexation.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Annee

I do understand the defensive feeling though, as I feel the same way with the remarks about California.

Hmmm... time to eat some crow here...

Annee, I have made derogatory remarks about California, and you are exactly right. Please accept my apologies and my sincere statement that I would never try to change your lifestyle there. Somewhere in our history here, California got the reputation of being the home of the "liberals," and by extension have become synonymous with the term.

Still doesn't make it right, though...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thank you, TheRedneck, for posting a heartfelt post. We are communicating in this thread, and that is a good thing. After a bit of time of you, Buzzy, and me and a few others communicating about what our different lives are like, I happened to run across something I have shared with others. It is a book by a Berkley sociologist who chose to live with different people in Louisiana to try to understand the cultural differences between the blue in Berkeley and the Southern red, why we have all arrived at our political positions today. By golly, The Redneck, what I read you write here appears voiced in her book!

Her book is Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right. There are also a couple articles about her project.

I Spent 5 Years With Some of Trump's Biggest Fans. Here's What They Won't Tell You.

What Drives Trump Supporters?: Sociologist Arlie Russell Hochschild on Anger & Mourning of the Right
The last link will get you to the second part of that article (at the bottom of the page link)

I know you get busy, so whenever you get a chance to read and report back to me, I would be much appreciative. No hurry!

My story is that I grew up in Los Angeles (a suburb, but we just say "L.A." for anything in the area). Forty years ago I intentionally moved away to get out of the rat race. One of my sisters always loved even city living, I had to get away to country. Where I moved to in California is very comparable to the "fly over" areas of America. We are "drive through" country in my state; drive through like a bat out of hell, try not to stop thereby avoiding the "backwards", laughable people who live there, to get from one urban area of CA to another.

It is the area I learned to appreciate country western music, rodeos, stock car racing, farmers and ranchers, all the wonderful Oakies and Arkies I met who had moved there around Dust Bowl time. I had in-laws in L.A. who were embarrassed to tell their friends where we had moved to, I have family members who "drive through" without stopping. The town had as many bars as churches, which is to say a lot of each, and I lived next to Pentecostal ministers and Mormons. But I set down roots and wouldn't live anywhere else. Geography and culture does that to us.

Here's the thing, though, I am a blue who lives in a red part of a blue state. To me, I have the best of both worlds. I feel badly that America has become so divided over the years. What I find so disconcerting is that some of the same things I hear today, I heard 40 years ago! Things we could have, should have addressed back then are still with us today, still driving wedges. If this country is to survive and go forward, not backward, it is up to us today to start working together to get what we want, even though the work may be left to our children to complete.

I did finally just finish Arlie Hochschild's book and learned a lot. There is what she calls a "deep story" for both the blues and the reds. Our stories may be different, but there is some hope out there that we can come together on some things we need to do together. In fact, it was what some of the younger reds and blues agree on that may be our future.

a reply to: TheRedneck

That particular post deserves its own plaque on a wall.

I think you concisely articulated the majority of rural America.

There is a reason you live where you do: you are happy living there (at least I hope and think you are). I have no desire to change your lifestyle, nor to describe it as anything other than "different." I wish you would do me (and the rest of the Deep South) the same honor.

Great words Redneck.

/end cheerleader post

originally posted by: olaru12

Pandora's box has been opened and evil is in the land.

Definitely on the Pandora's box. Trump being elected seems to give "license" . . .

The effects of Republican control are already being felt. Not just in attitudes of those that think they've been given "license", but in real situations.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thanks

a reply to: Annee

Definitely on the Pandora's box. Trump being elected seems to give "license" . . .

Certainly seems that way...

By increments I am losing faith and trust in ATS, mods and members and a large segment of the US population.
Trumps election has brought out a sense of entitlement. Some of my favorite ATS members have essentially been turned into
fascist by the Trump victory and revel in pointing out that you as a progressive are losers; perhaps they were always that way but now feel they have carte blanche to express themselves like their political hero does. I enjoy and use profanity as well but this election has brought out an element of evil hostility

On My last Texas trip I heard the words "Nigger" and "Beaner" used by white people in everyday ordinary conversation; Even by friends of mine that never used to talk like that. If it's like that in Texas it must be creeping thru the bible belt as well.

Pandora's box indeed.

I'm so glad that Benevolent Heretic is missing this devolution. When she comes back she won't even recognize The place. And my favorite conservative Flyers Fan would be appalled. Perhaps thats why she left.



i have been following this thread for a very long time. Glad to see that it's not so mean spirited.

Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

It has been suggested by some members in the heated threads that I should just leave.

a reply to: desert

Wanna know a secret, desert? All of my posts are heartfelt. Even the bad ones.

I am pretty busy right now (working out some magnetic resonance equations for a project), but I do want to read those links. I think it will be interesting to see how the author interprets the differences. In the end, I think we all want the same thing: a happy life, peace, and prosperity for all.

We just have different ideas on how to achieve it.

I have lived a long and full life, and been blessed to see the decline of racism in the South, the rise of technology, and the explosion of knowledge. I watched black-and-white TV off a crude antenna in my youth, and now play with 3D CGI animation as a hobby. I remember using slide rules; now I own a number-cruncher and am typing this on a tablet... all connected via WiFi that I set up. I was alive when Neil Armstrong stepped on another world. I have topped out in two careers, and am embarking on a third. I have seen almost all of the United States and part of Canada. If I die tomorrow, I will have lived more than most twice over.

But I'm not planning on that. I want to see more. I want to see a people not diversified, but united in their diversity. I want to see world peace. I want to see us make our home on another Earth, this time with the wisdom to make it better, not worse. But we can't see that until we know each other and respect each other and accept that we are all human but also all different. Even a tough-as-nails redneck can't live forever... so can we hurry it up, please?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
These are the things we need to address:

Popular Vote vs Electoral College (Hillary is winning popular vote, folks)
LOBBYING,
PAY-TO-PLAY,
Tax Codes
Health Care
PACs,
the revolving door of Wall Street/Govt players,
ACA,
Immigration
Homelessness
Debt
War
Border control
Infrastructure
Public Education
Media blight
Climate Change
Energy spending



etc.....
Last night I saw Tom Brokaw talking about where we should begin.

He suggested Infrastructure. Put people to work improving our roads and bridges and civil engineering. Take care of that first. FIRST.
In my opinion, that is a fantastic starting point.

We have two months to try this on for size. Before we have to buy into it.

Still possible:

Trump declines (I doubt it)
Civil War
Malicious Terrorism Gestures
any number of ghastly things could still happen.

We have to get busy. We've changed drivers, but we could still sail off the cliff......

So what do we start with?
What issues are you most concerned about and what should be done first thing????

(I'm looking for the clip of Brokaw - will post when I find it)

Obama should have fixed all of it already.

What happened?

The Wall and Obamacare will be first.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Obama didn't break any of it....it was broken when he got there.

Why do you want to take health care away from those people who need it and used it and are even now signing up for it?

a reply to: olaru12

On My last Texas trip I heard the words "Nigger" and "Beaner" used by white people in everyday ordinary conversation; Even by friends of mine that never used to talk like that. If it's like that in Texas it must be creeping thru the bible belt as well. Pandora's box indeed.

That is so disturbing, but I am not surprised. Ignorance and hate in people's minds and hearts takes over sometimes. It's like Annee said, these people feel they have "license" to say those things now. As the saying goes, a fish rots from the head down.

My husband lurks on another site, and a few months ago he said that things had changed there. "Truth" is whatever crazy sh## people make up and believe. Thanks to encouragement by fish heads like Newt Gingrich, "feelings" about things are on the same level as facts about things. You "feel" like something is happening, even though there is empirical evidence to the contrary. but your "feelings" make it "true"!

That nonsense is exactly what comes from giving Alex Jones (etal) the power to spew his fringe extremist right wing conspiratorial crap and call it "truth". Again, the Republicans refused to rein in their fringe extremists but instead gave them more power and control, until that sh## is exactly what is literally controlling America at the moment.

And the GOP allowed the Koch family to explode not just their fringe extremist conspiratorial views into the party but also their extremist economic and governance views. We no longer have a sane, rational American dominant culture. We have a culture of corporate governance and conspiratorial ideas. We have been the foolish man who built his house on sand. The fight will be to put the house back onto rock.

triggered goal tending?

a reply to: Annee

Oh, Annee, so true. The bright spot For first time since Depression, Orange County goes blue in presidential election

Like I mentioned in another post, being blue in a red part of a blue state is having the best of both. Although, like the difference between old money and new money, there is a difference between old red and new red.... the new red here is batsh## crazy. Even in my old red part, we have more sense than parts where the batsh## intolerant, ignorant new red rule.

And blue people in a red state have my sympathy. Like the people of Russia, you don't deserve the leaders you have.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I am unhappy with many things in society, Buzzy, but I am happy with some things too. I am happy that I can sleep at night listening to crickets and the occasional clock-deprived rooster crowing, instead of sirens and loud ?music? from car stereos. I am happy that I don't have to worry about making sure everything I own is locked up every night. I am happy that I can walk outside tomorrow morning and decide to build a shed without asking for permission from the government. I am happy that I can get fresh free-range eggs out of the little laying-house I built. I am happy that I can grow a garden. I am happy that I can step behind a tree to pee instead of looking for a restroom.

I can do all of those things as well -- and I do (except for the pee thing. I'm a woman, but I've been "outback" many times and am not afraid to relieve myself when under good brush cover). I'm not afraid of dirt, or bugs, or mud, or night-time or silence. I just wish we could see the stars better, and were closer to proper "mountains" and the ocean.

There are free-roaming yard chickens in my neighborhood. I had them myself along with several horses...and a vegetable garden.

I don't live in some "loft" apartment in the urban core. I also don't live in the "middle-class subdivisions" of matching houses (and where the heck do they warehouse all those shades of "beige"?).
I live in a home nearly 80 years old, made of stone and oak, on the very edge of residential zone area. You go 100 yards north of me, and you are in open, unfenced green space -- hills and trees and creeks and ravines coyotes and eagles and turkeys and deer and foxes and owls and crickets. The dawn chorus is warming up even just a few weeks into the new year ----- you go that same direction for 1/2 mile, and you are at the Missouri river.

...this morning I was awakened by the full moon shining into my bedroom window. I don't lock my stuff up (except for the cars - we have both had our cars stolen since we've lived here).

This is a "small-town" area that was annexed into the larger metro area, and we still have manners. We have a fully integrated community. Neighbors are Asian, white, black, white, Cuban, Mexican, Asian, white, black. Businesses are locally owned by the same mix of ethnicities. We are mannerly and kind and helpful to one another. Please, thank you, holding the door for strangers, making eye contact and smiling at everyone we meet. I know the shopkeepers on a first name basis, and am not afraid to ask someone on the street for directions to the pasta aisle or to give directions to get to the DMV.

So perhaps it is you who needs to reassess your "impression" of "Midwestern liberals."
My kids were raised on a small hobby-farm. We walked up the hill to the peach orchard to get fresh peaches. We fish at the local lake. We ride horses up and down the streets, and along the trails around the lake and along the river. We hear train whistles and crickets mostly -- some siren activity because we live near a residential old-folks home and also a high-rise Section 8 housing project where those with mental problems live.

You are not seeming to recognize that.
My best friend on the street is a Cuban man. I know all of the other neighbors, and we watch out for one another.

It might be a "suburb" legally, but it is still the same two villages that used to be on the dirt road to "the city", but were a few miles (and a few churches) apart.

Is that acceptable? I don't live like a snob in artificially 'tree-lined' streets --- I had a sticker on my car that said:

Surburbia: Where they tear out the trees and name the streets after them

I live on 1/3 acre in a heavily wooded (deciduous forest) area in the glacial hills, within easy walking distance to the Missouri river. The noise, when there is any, comes from barking dogs, crowing chickens, and mowers. mkay?

Oh, and one last point about my neighborhood --- I live here not because I "love it" but because this is where I dropped anchor when my kids were born. Their extended family is here.

I don't have the means to just "up and move", and frankly I resent people who tell me to "move" as though it is an easily achievable impulse.

And yet -- this particular community - warts and all - is very BLUE when it comes to voting. There are poor people here, and also educated people. Mostly, we are kind, and tolerant, and have that same "slower pace" that the more rural communities have.