Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You call Sessions a racist; I point out he killed the KKK in Alabama. You respond that he's a racist.

I ask why Bannon is a racist. You reply with one sentence uttered many years ago. I ask if he's ever done anything racist. You reply that I'm just dense.

You stress that Clinton won the popular vote. I respond why that is irrelevant. You then claim I am disrespecting your superior knowledge.

You take an explanation of how Social Security was never meant to be a primary retirement income, and twist it to accuse me of wanting to dismantle Social Security.

I could fill up the next five pages of this thread with similar examples, but it wouldn't do any good. You would either refuse to accept they happened, cry about being 'unfairly attacked,' or simply wait two pages and forget they were ever mentioned.

Yes, thank God for desert. She and I might disagree on some things, but we can be civil and respectful to each other. We might, if others join us, be able to fix something instead of just complaining about it and pointing fingers willy-nilly.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Clinton winning the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes is unprecedented. It's a huge symbolic loss for Trump and legitimizes any dissent he faces over the next 4 years. Trump's loss is nearly 6 times as bad as Bush's in 2000. That's huge-- Trump is on a path to be considered the worst and most disliked President in U.S. history and he hasn't even taken office yet.

Regardless of whether Bannon is a racist, he called Breitbart a platform for the alt-right. He represents the alt-right which is chock full of racists. Bannon and Trump have both been accused of being dog whistles for racists -- and there is absolutely no reason not to think it's true. Trump was a beacon for racists, white supremacists, and white nationalists... and his pick of Bannon and Sessions double and triples down on that.

You don't have to see the truth in it. Many of Trump supporters feign willful ignorance over the racists claims, but regardless, the evidence is all there.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Sir. I have just now reviewed every single one of my posts to you from page 1 until now.
Every single one.

I agreed with you dozens of times within the first 6 pages. It is when I said that Sessions was a problem that you got upset.

I have stated more often than not: Yes! I agree! You are right! Yes that! I know!

And then it all went downhill. It was not I that caused that. I have every right to point out what Sessions stands for. To emphasize that Sessions has a history of racism so profound that he was denied a Supreme Court seat. He is also a homophobe, an anti-women's-rights guy, and wants to go backward as far as the rights of others with whom he disagrees or of whom he disapproves.

Voted NO on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)

Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)

Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)

Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)

Voted YES on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)

Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Rated 20% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 7% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)

State definition of marriage supersedes federal gay marriage. (Mar 2014)

Please review those of his votes. Please also take the time to look at the notes and addenda that show more info.
And then there are his stances on many other things also listed on this website.

Specifically regarding war:

A strong national defense is the top priority. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011)
Voted YES on cutting $221M in benefits to Filipinos who served in WWII US Army. (Apr 2008)
Voted NO on requiring FISA court warrant to monitor US-to-foreign calls. (Feb 2008)
Voted YES on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad. (Aug 2007)
Voted NO on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months. (Jul 2007)
Voted NO on implementing the 9/11 Commission report. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)
Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on restricting business with entities linked to terrorism. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on restoring $565M for states' and ports' first responders. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Voted YES on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)
Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%. (Feb 1999)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex basic training. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on favoring 36 vetoed military projects. (Oct 1997)
Voted NO on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
Rated 0% by SANE, indicating a pro-military voting record. (Dec 2003)
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11. (Dec 2007)
Sponsored opposing the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty. (Mar 2013)
No transfers of Gitmo prisoners to US or abroad. (Jan 2015)

Those are all problems in my opinion. I highlighted the most egregiously offensive stances.

Showing you how Sessions is, and what he stands for, is not insulting YOU. It is showing you facts.
Jeff Sessions On the Issues

Lots of war, lots of discrimination, lots of control over women's reproductive rights, lots of spying, and lots of pro-torture, pro-chemical-weapons stuff.

That worries me. He wanted to be on the SCOTUS, and was denied. Now there is an empty seat, and I know that Trump's supporters want to put someone MUCH LIKE SESSIONS in that chair. Make him the A.G. and fill out the SCOTUS with like-minded people, and we are sunk.



Oh --- and lastly, I was just talking to my good friend who is Cuban and came here back in the 70s.....he defected, and was accepted. He's been here since, and is a contributing member of society, married to an ICU nurse, and pays attention to these things. He told me just this afternoon that he sees the exact same pattern as what Cuba underwent. Russia is now taking over our country. That's what he said, from a first-person experienced point of view.

Just saying.
You taking offense when I criticize Sessions or Trump is inappropriate. You are not Sessions, nor are you Trump. My issues are with them. But in reviewing our exchange, it is very clear to me that you got defensive and confrontational when I pointed out the errors in your perception, the holes in the story, and the actuality of what is happening. I'm sorry, again, that you are still so raw and chafed. You all won. That is a fact.

What happens now is because you all won. That terrifies me. Apparently you find it soothing and positive. So, there we are.
Have a good week, stay safe, and may all of your loved ones enjoy a comforting Christmas and a prosperous New Year, despite the hurdles we are all now facing.

And I would like to offer a hearty middle finger to all Americans who voted for this bully, douchebag, racist, low class, sexual assaulting, narcissist bag of sh#t. The next 4 years are on you.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Wait, let me go get another glass.... there....

In hindsight, I should have expected that since he was a career politician.

Bush 41 had been CIA director. I never could understand why my fellow Americans would want a former CIA man in the White House. I couldn't trust him.

Yeah, Ronnie Raygun was my governor. Part of his state legacy remains with us all today. He closed down institutionalized mental health care, with many of the people eventually ending up on the streets, homeless. I won't go into it here, but there's a whole backstory on that move.

At the time he became POTUS, some of us said that he was being chosen more as a figurehead for the Republican Party. I think that ended up proving true, especially looking back at what his own son, Ron, said were symptoms of early Alzheimers by 1983. He was 72 at the time. That's one of the things that bothers me about Trump; his father died from the disease, and I really suspect he has symptoms of the early stage. Trump is 70. And at this point especially, I see Trump as being a figurehead, the white, wealthy male who projects power. IMO he believes that he is making decisions, but he is merely okaying what is being presented to him (scripts on a teleprompter, candidates for staff and cabinet).

Hey, speaking of a CA governor.... and space...., did you hear that Gov Brown, lol Gov Moonbeam, said that CA could launch its own scientific satellite to monitor climate if Trump shuts down NASA research? Actually, it's not so farfetched, as Montana had launched a satellite.

But, yeah, something is not right with the picture. Initiative, drive, passion? Oh, one thing, putting a man on the moon was a national, community effort with national pride. We've lost our sense of community.

Oh, re Obama. I think that the divide (that line we refuse to cross) we all speak of was already in place for his first term, having been building up since the 1990s (and somewhat since 1980). Also, I go back to that thread from 2009, Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail

a reply to: spiritualzombie

What I am seeing differs from your perspective. I do see a lot of animosity toward Trump, and freely admit I have some concerns. I have. I have had concerns with every President since Nixon. But I also see a lot of hope for him. The country is divided deeply; the division you speak of would exist if Elmer Fudd had won. It definitely exists with Obama in my experience.

My biggest concern is precisely what you mention: he has done nothing yet. Thus far, all that can be said about Trump is what he might do. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt at first. Obama got it, at least from me. I am dismayed that so many are willing to demonize him, and even defend that unfair demonization, before he even takes office.

I pointed out to BuzzyWigs earlier that Obama's supporters continued to blame everything bad that happened during his administration on Bush for the first four years. She responded that Trump was going to held responsible for everything that happened even before his inauguration. That is unfair and childish, unworthy of a serious discussion.

And a reason I see no sense in continuing my discussion with her.

Bannon: I still have not taken time to research him. He is on the transition team, not a Cabinet member, so it's not a high priority for me. I am more interested in understanding and resolving problems than witch hunts or fan raving. If he becomes an issue, I will have reason to know more about him. In the meantime... if all people can say is he runs Breitbart and call him a racist, I guess I will remain ignorant for a while.

"Racist" now means "I don't like him and can't explain why."

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Don't pretend to have concerns about Trump. I've heard that from people who want to come across as level headed. There are NO minor concerns with Trump. You either get it or you don't.

a reply to: desert

Yeah, Ronnie Raygun was my governor. Part of his state legacy remains with us all today. He closed down institutionalized mental health care, with many of the people eventually ending up on the streets, homeless. I won't go into it here, but there's a whole backstory on that move.

Which backstory I am aware of intimately - I worked for years with the "cast-outs". It was a huge mistake. He shut down the govt homes and shelters and cut them loose for the communities to deal with --- but gave those communities NO support, or training, or equipment, and gave those former residents NO follow-up, or meds, or guidance at all.

Anyway....going to continue reading. Oh, and please let The Redneck know that I appreciated his post (the one to which you are responding). It makes me sad that I'm getting the hand ------

a reply to: TheRedneck

I pointed out to BuzzyWigs earlier that Obama's supporters continued to blame everything bad that happened during his administration on Bush for the first four years. She responded that Trump was going to held responsible for everything that happened even before his inauguration. That is unfair and childish, unworthy of a serious discussion.

This is patently false.

You said that you voted for Obama "to your eternal shame", and that since he took office there has been NO rebound of the economy. That is false. The economy was broken when he got there.
G W Bush broke it. Trump, btw, celoebrated when the housing market collapsed in 2008. You know that, right? He benefited from that. It happened while W was the president. Obama inherited the aftermath.

And you do realize that Mnuchin, one of Trump's picks, was in charge when all of that happened? Goldman Sachs...you remember that name, I'm sure. Yes. "Too big to fail" banker. My nemesis is Jamie Dimon (of JPMorgan), but equally as toxic as Mnuchin.

I responded to you that Obama has done a good job with what he had to work with and the limited cooperation that he got from the oppositional/defiant Congress.

Trump WILL be held responsible FOR THE PEOPLE HE PICKS, and for the LIES he promotes.


And your casual dismissal of Bannon as an important part of all this really does not bolster your case.

I pointed out to BuzzyWigs earlier that Obama's supporters continued to blame everything bad that happened during his administration on Bush for the first four years. She responded that Trump was going to held responsible for everything that happened even before his inauguration. That is unfair and childish, unworthy of a serious discussion.

Just like blaming Obama for everything that happened BEFORE HIS WATCH is unworthy of serious discussion.....because it was W who did it.

Trump is now choosing his team. We are entitled to have opinions and investigate those people. That has NOTHING to do with Obama, or with W.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

I've been meaning to get back to you.

Trump never served in the military, and I doubt he ever saw the movie, Saving Private Ryan..... but I'll bet he could talk your ear off about it, "Wonderful movie! About the military. Wonderful movie! Our military is wonderful! To think how those soldiers saved Private Ryan. What a story about how they saved private Ryan. Makes me proud. American soldiers. Makes me proud to be American." .... we've all known bs schmoozers like him No, Trump is clueless about "Earn this."

You know, my Dad went into Germany in Feb 1944. Some of the stories he told us were bad enough, and we knew there were more he could never tell. I remember him saying that, even though he was close enough to see the faces of the young German soldiers he had to shoot dead (and by then there were children fighting), he never hated the German people. He felt sorry for them. He always said that the German people were just like Americans, it was their leaders that were wrong.

Right now, we are in deep doo doo in this country. We've been this way for a bit. It is a reality: Mann & Ornstein “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks”. Yes, the Republican Party has been allowed (by its leaders) to become the party of its extreme fringe, with all its reactionaries, with whom there's no arguing. And, yes, white nationalists have been a part of the GOP and loved Trump. But, with that said, I know many good people who only voted out of frustration for a system (our oligarchy) that has not been good for them.

I have family members who are conmen like Trump. I have family members who have John Birch Society meetings in their home! I tried to hate them, but I had to get over my anger and move on. I know dysfunctional, loser families that voted for Trump, preferring to blame others rather than take responsibility for the crap they live; they loved it when Trump scapegoated. And I know very intelligent, rational (and politically brilliant) people who I have no clue as to why they voted for Trump! I really wanted to hate them, I really did, because I thought I could find relief for my anger.

But, then I remembered my Dad fighting our enemy at the time. He was right, the leaders are responsible. What helped me was to understand the reality that, as Buzzy so well put it, we're screwed, we're so screwed. (She put it more eloquently than my "We're effed!" haha) If I started from that premise, the anger disappeared. There will be too much to deal with in the near future to hold onto my anger, my hatred.

There will be a time when our anger must turn onto the leaders. Again, because we are a de facto parliamentary system, we need to be the opposition party. Unlike the last 8 years off opposition, where the opposing party cared NOT for America but rather DAMN THE COUNTRY, we cannot act like them. They were angry about losing power, and they were willing to DAMN THE COUNTRY. Well, now they have all the power, and it will not bode well for America.

But we must reserve our anger for the leaders, and take whatever action is necessary (non-violently, but relentless). We must not compromise our values when they want us to compromise. Again, I go back to Germany. And I have to keep in mind



First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


We will survive. We must. If the Russian people survived the Siege of Leningrad, we can survive. We must.

You and Buzzy have a much healthier optimistic view. I don't even know how to wish this thing well. If Trump does well it validates all the ways he got here. It validates the childish insults, the violent rhetoric, the support for torture and murder, the call to racists... the obvious double standards... all the sh#t-- asking Russia for help, bragging about sexually assaulting women. A guy like that... he deserves broken bones.

This will have a negative impact on politics. Trump just established that the lowest of class can win you the white house. There's so much he has made OK that I'm not even putting into words adequately. And I can't stand looking at family or friends who saw, listened, and decided "we should reward that behavior - that guy represents us". If he represents us, then F us all.

I don't know what the F this country stands for anymore. People claim they couldn't vote for Clinton-- but why not? Was she not awful enough to satisfy? Was she not racist enough, fraudulent enough, hateful enough? Was she not childish enough? The country has decided to go full Nazi retard. I'll never side with Nazi's no matter what flag they hide behind.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I was just talking to my good friend who is Cuban and came here back in the 70s..... he sees the exact same pattern as what Cuba underwent. Russia is now taking over our country. That's what he said, from a first-person experienced point of view.

Interesting, It is good to talk with citizens/former citizens of other countries (with Canadians, I just drink with them lol ). I would be curious as to specifics. What similarities does he see? Certainly, though, Cuba and the USSR were tight. There were many satellite Communist countries after WW2 all over the globe. I wonder if it because Russia took us over or did we just become like Russia?

Over the years I've had a chance to talk with people who had lived under authoritarian rule. (And it is also good for Americans to read books written by people who lived, say, in East Germany under Communism.) What I found when talking with these folks in public (with even no one else around) was that there was always a hesitancy, a careful choosing of words, as if they were constantly monitoring what they said. so as not to say the wrong thing; it seemed to be a habit. We're not talking pc here, but a fear of somehow their words would get back to someone. Also, there was a curious turning of the head, or a glancing around with the eyes, as if monitoring who might be around to see or hear the exchange. I have never seen Americans do this. It is something that isn't done living in a free country.

If you've read any of my posts re Russian hacking in America, you know that I have said that the Russians are doing what they have always done to us. In the past it was military defense weaknesses and individual weaknesses in order to turn a citizen. Well, after years of irrational, unreasonable thinking, with false equivalence and bifurcated thinking, all leading to a post truth era, we were ripe for Russia to find our weakness and use it against us, finding not an individual but groups of people to turn (the useful idiots).

They became masters at massaging the truth and causing confusion about what is true. This is where I see how we look like Russia has influenced us (taken us over).... or did we just become like them without their help?

a reply to: spiritualzombie

I really, really, soon after the election when the enormity sunk in that he had won, tried to believe that Trump could somehow do something for which I would applaud him. I was going to give him 100 days. But looking at the people he has chosen, his actions and words, I had to reach the conclusion already that we're screwed. If there is anyone out there hoping he'll change, they are living with delusions.

And in a banana republic or country by mob rule, he would have "broken bones"! No, he does not represent us. He does not represent what is good about this country, but then, he was not voted to do so. Most other countries are shocked he was elected. (But then, they often do not understand how our special system works or how we got to such dysfunction--- judging by what I see and hear... even on tv/radio..., most Americans don't understand). Many outside of America do not understand how someone can win the popular vote and not be declared the winner, for ex.

Some of the people I know who voted for Trump will be the very people who will be harmed under the Koch economy. They don't get it. Just as many people never got what was happening to the economy starting under Reagan in the 1980s. What was important to them were social wedge issues (just as now), and they never noticed, like the frog in the water, that the economic water was being turned up to boiling.

sz, I don't know how old you are, but I can remember how the right wing attacked not just Bill but Hillary, too, when they were first in the White House. Bill, I could understand lol This hatred of her goes back aways. About 5 years ago, a young Republican man told me that the GOP feared Hillary, feared her. She was a strong woman, and they were afraid of her.

Here's a read
Hating Hillary Hillary Clinton has been trashed right and left—but what’s really fuelling the furies?
..... it's from 1996!

Funny thing is, I know some hardcore liberals who did not like Hillary, hated her, believing the same crap that others believed. They hated Trump, too. Well, they didn't understand that by not voting for Hillary, they were giving Trump their vote. And, for all those Republicans who didn't want to vote Trump, well ya got him anyway! Oh, the irony, the rotten irony.

Well, we all play in each other's karma. Right now, you and I and a whole lot of others are involved in the Trump voters' karma. It ain't fun, it ain't easy, but we're in it. No, Trump may be my president, but he most assuredly does not represent me! Loud and clear, he does not represent me!

I think that if young people still believe in Bernie Sanders message, The Bernie Revolution, things will change. Where, with a Hillary win, it would have been easier and quicker, but, well, now it will be more difficult and take much longer. I know one thing, the coming changes will make the 1960s and 70s look like child play. The stakes are higher, and we're not in the usual, normal times.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This is patently false.

Really? So you don't remember saying this?

So - everything that happens from now on (up to and INCLUDING inauguration day and afterward) is SQUARELY ON TRUMP'S SHOULDERS.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, Trump will be held responsible for his picks, for Russia, for dismantling regulations and allowing the continued poisoning of our environment. OBAMA TRIED TO STOP IT.

The GOP refused to allow him. NOW they have Trump, who will NOT try to stop it...he will NOT work for the needy, the underemployed, the disenfranchised. Obama tried to do that. The 'right-wing' has done NOTHING but fight him.

For eight years, he has been thwarted by the very people you are now celebrating. Trump and all of his birther nonsense, and his coziness with Russia, and his pandering to the withering but still prickly Religious Right.....everything of Obama's that he UNDOES will BE HIS RESPONSIBILITY and fall squarely on HIS SHOULDERS as the chief executive.

His plans are unconscionably devoid of the least bit of compassion. He has the insight of a gnat, and the charisma of a freight train. He incites violence, and then shrugs his shoulders when it is shown that he did that. Not ONE of those people he has picked are suitable. Not even one of them.

That is what I see happening. You can accuse me of insulting you and disrespecting you all day long and forever after, but that won't make it true. It won't make it my fault that Trump ruins everything and you all are STILL left with no good jobs and even less security than you have now.

Good luck with that. And I'm tired of fending off your silly allegations and feigned persecution. I have not insulted you personally, NOT ONCE. Trump is an asshat. His asshattery will be more and more evident as time goes on, and unless an astronomically improbable sequence of convenient disasters and personal comeuppances occur post-haste - he will make this country into a shadow of what it once was.

His supporters will have to deal with that "to their eternal shame." If I were you all, I'd start behaving with a bit of shame. The only people I've ever fought for are the hard-working, the underprivileged, the disenfranchised, the neglected, the abused and left-behind. Is that you? If you count yourself in any of those groups, I have been fighting for YOU. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

sheesh

we're done. This abyss is too vast and wide, and your hearing is too compromised for me to continue trying to get through to you. I give the floor to desert. I will continue to post what's next - as it happens. You are free to try to fend it off, but the hits will keep coming. Just remember, you asked for it.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Teamwork, work programs, mutual respect and and understanding that there are things we can all do together that will make this country stronger and better in every way

I know that sounds like something a politician would say :-)

But I actually think it's possible

I agree 100%. Putting people to work. Levelling Wall Street and starting over. Just like the "New Deal." But now it looks like that will not even be presented as an option. That fact (that it won't even be put on the table) is a testament to the utter dysfunction of our nation's uppermost management. Neither the billionaires and players, nor the politicians/lawyers, are in touch with real America anymore.

Bernie was. Bernie was a breath of fresh air. Elizabeth Warren also, helps my heart avoid despair.....
the Obamas will still be visible and available - they are not being exiled to some remote island for unspeakable torture ---- no. The Clintons, likewise, are not going to be launched into outer space. We are not divested of viable authority figures.....even while we are INfested with liars and cheats, psychos and mobsters.

I know that I am one of many millions who will stand strong and not let up at all -- holding this guy Trump accountable -- just like the world holds Kim Jong Il or Un or whoever is held accountable. Bibi Netanyahu, Bashar al-Assad, Vlad Putin ----- There is no way Trump or ANYONE he has chosen to be around him is a suitable representative of our nation.

Ivanka is the pick of the litter! I could almost stomach it if she were not only in the "First Lady" office, but ALSO the Secretary of State! And I can't believe I'm even saying that --- but if you put all of Donald's favorite folks in my backyard and asked me to pick from them as to who I wanted to have on point in world affairs....

I would pick IVANKA.
And that is truly sad. It's nearly as bad as a Kanye/Kim ticket. But not quite. I have not lost all respect for Ivanka YET. It won't take much, though. So - we'll see how much power and 'facetime' she gives the world. yikes.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Bernie was. Bernie was a breath of fresh air. Elizabeth Warren also, helps my heart avoid despair.....

lol... what I found interesting is the Clinton defecting electors who were breaking for Bernie! They want more Left, not more oligarchy.... good for them!

Buzzy, I now have a feeling that this thread could be one of those threads with 100+ pages. There WILL be continuous "next steps"!

The Ambassador of Trumpism

Gingrich's definition of Trumpism is essentially a third attempt – after Ronald Reagan in 1980 and himself in 1994 – by conservatives to break the country cleanly away from President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "New Deal" big-government mindset. He sees it as a push to decentralize the many functions and services that have been guided by elites in Washington and return power and decision-making to the populace outside of the nation's capital. What makes such profound change possible this time? Trump is as disruptive as President Andrew Jackson, as energetic as President Theodore Roosevelt and as effective a salesman as P.T. Barnum, Gingrich says.

Koch ideology-- soon to be the law of the land.

Ok, now I get snarky before I go. I got to thinking today about the current Turkey--Russia situation. President Trump's isolationist ideology and inability to negotiate diplomatically means he will end up being the 400-lb gorilla sitting in his bathroom tweeting about it.

Ok, evidence of how a President Trump is the figurehead for the New Republican Party, the party of the Koch "let business run the country" ideology: Inauguration Day 2017 has been turned into "Opening Day 2017", as in opening of a new business. Well, I guess. The United States of America on January 20 will now be open to corporate business.

Donald Trump's sons behind nonprofit selling access to president-elect

A new Texas nonprofit led by Donald Trump’s grown sons is offering access to the freshly-minted president during inauguration weekend — all in exchange for million-dollar donations to unnamed “conservation” charities, according to interviews and documents reviewed by the Center for Public Integrity.

Prospective million-dollar donors to the “Opening Day 2017” event — slated for Jan. 21, the day after inauguration, at Washington, D.C.’s Walter E. Washington Convention Center — receive a “private reception and photo opportunity for 16 guests with President Donald J. Trump,” a “multi-day hunting and/or fishing excursion for 4 guests with Donald Trump, Jr. and/or Eric Trump, and team,” as well as tickets to other events and “autographed guitars by an Opening Day 2017 performer.”

So, January 20, 2017, will go down in history as the official day Americans became "consumers" instead of "citizens". America as we have known it will be gone, officially "out of business". Students will no longer need to take government classes to learn how to be good citizens, instead they will take business classes to learn how to be good America consumers.

Yep, the continued privatization of America in the corporate oligarch interest....

Trump private security force ‘playing with fire’

Whereas Clinton’s security spending — like that of most presidential campaigns — went mostly to protection for her offices and payments to local law enforcement or security companies for ad hoc event security, Trump’s campaign took it to a whole different level. It built a robust private security force that traveled the country supplementing the protective personal security supplied by the Secret Service, and working to identify and remove possible protesters — or just people Trump and his allies had a bad feeling about — from his events.
......
as Trump’s campaign or an outside group “organizes and sets the rules for a private event, and a politician, including the president, is an invited guest, then the host can decide whether and when to revoke attendees’ invitations. That would make them trespassers and allow them to be legally removed.” If the rallies were funded or organized by the government, on the other hand, then only law enforcement could identify protesters for ejection and actually remove them, and only then for breaking the law, she said.

As oligarchs say, "Constitution, to god-damned hell with the Constitution! We have no Constitution. In fact, we don't need Constitution. I don't have to show you any stinking Constitution, you god-damned cab### and ch#### tu madre!"

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This abyss is too vast and wide

I think this unbridgeable abyss exists between more people than just you and RedNeck. There are certain ideologies/mindsets/attitudes that are mutually exclusive and there are vast numbers of Americans that hold one or more of them.

Even if adults can by and large avoid discussions about divisive issues, perhaps approach things as intellectual exercises, we're still left with what to do about our children. What are they going to be taught in school, what's going to be culturally condemned or normalized and the like.

It's a war and it's not a war about equality, rather its a war for dominance. I've spent most of my life oblivious to this, but now I've woken up.

In this context I can understand why the left, particularly the hard progressive left, is so hysterical about the outcome of this election. It's not good news for them. But for me and mine, though it's not all we could hope for, it's better than it could have ended up and it's cause for a bit of guarded optimism and hope.

So next first step? Stay out of the progressive left's way while they continue to self radicalize and marginalize themselves into an even more impotent role than they already find themselves in.

a reply to: imwilliam

It's a war and it's not a war about equality, rather its a war for dominance. I've spent most of my life oblivious to this, but now I've woken up.

You speak the truth.

Trump did not win the election by the Republican party; Clinton did not lose because of the Democratic party. The result was determined by Independents. And from what I hear on the street, the Independents rejected exactly what you speak of: the perceived dominant attitude of Hillary Clinton. Interestingly enough, I recall hearing similar complaints about AL Gore during his campaign. Ironically, people actually seemed to consider Clinton more "elitist" than even a billionaire businessman with an ego the size of an average planet named Donald Trump.

The sheer hatred and vile now being expressed by the thugs protesting the election and even the more aggressive supporters is not being ignored. It is being watched, closely, by millions of Americans who are now taking it as proof they were right. If Trump manages to do any good whatsoever in office, that hatred will keep the Republicans in power for many cycles to come.

Not that such seems to necessarily be a good thing in my opinion... I prefer balance...

TheRedneck