Does "time" really exist?

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13
Can you define what 'objective truth' is please?

Truth free of all doubt...

Can you say that you are not?
Can you say that you are?
To be or not to be? That is the question.

I doubt everything at first and take it from there.

Can you doubt the doubter?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I scan information and learn from it.
There where times for example a negro man was breaking the law for looking at or loving a Caucasian female. He would be killed legally she attacked legally why the slave master and his friends who made the laws kept sleeping around with the slave women?
games-

So I learn for example how things said to be truths can be lies. And so doubt all at first until logic shines true from thy guide the CREATOR. Its not that I want to doubt it is just that if people took just a little time and looked at this current reality it could easily be fixed. But restrictions globally forbid the advance and many are just left with what they are given by those who control leaving the dream of utopia lost in the mist of nightmares.


So no I don't doubt the doubter I feel they are just securing their logical position with whatever subject is at hand.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
Its not that I want to doubt it is just that if people took just a little time and looked at this current reality it could easily be fixed.

The current configuration cannot be fixed - it is as it is. The only thing that needs fixing is the idea one has about what one is!

If all there is, is this moment then time does not exist. But it is still felt as real on the level of experience. The illusion is real in other words, it's a paradox.

originally posted by: Andy1144
If all there is, is this moment then time does not exist. But it is still felt as real on the level of experience. The illusion is real in other words, it's a paradox.

There isn't a 'moment' - there is only ever what is happening - and thoughts about other than what is happening happen!

a reply to: greenreflections

There is a limit to what can be known about certain system state 'now' and 'past' to make definitive prediction, which leaves 'future' being unpredictable as reliable source.

Just wanted to correct myself on a second thought..

Any measurement taken, any event observed is already 'the past'. 'Now' is identified with life, I'm thinking. It is a 'moment', something that has no duration and timeless. Being static to time flow means being affected by that flow.

But 'now' is affected by time, nevertheless...time tends to exhaust and wash away anything that moves slower than it does (speed of light). 'Now' is energy intensive to sustain.

With this logic -- life is an opposite to time.

Although, in GR I can assume that it is I who moves at the speed of light and time and space are static. Silly argument, but has a right to be.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Andy1144
If all there is, is this moment then time does not exist. But it is still felt as real on the level of experience. The illusion is real in other words, it's a paradox.

There isn't a 'moment' - there is only ever what is happening

But this is a 'moment', ' a happening' in front of your eyes.

originally posted by: greenreflections

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Andy1144
If all there is, is this moment then time does not exist. But it is still felt as real on the level of experience. The illusion is real in other words, it's a paradox.

There isn't a 'moment' - there is only ever what is happening

But this is a 'moment', ' a happening' in front of your eyes.

Where are the edges? Can the point where a moment starts and the point where it ends be found?
Whatever is happening is seamless.

Words appear to divide that which is whole, into bits. In truth there are no bits, no fragments - there is simply what there is.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where are the edges? Can the point where a moment starts and the point where it ends be found?
Whatever is happening is seamless.

Yes, what ever is happening seems fluid smooth.



May be...just may be, the 'moment' is sort of temporal singularity. I know, this sounds too abstract.

Here for a second I can assume that energy in it's free form is continues, like a sine function.
In QM, wavelength of sine wave can be considered as quanta and constitute 'edges' of the 'moment'. This might explain 'seamless' part. It is because memory of previous event is brought back to use in wavelength time (turn around in Planck time) if we talk of singularity (I think of the loop).

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where are the edges? Can the point where a moment starts and the point where it ends be found?
Whatever is happening is seamless.

Yes, what ever is happening seems fluid smooth.

May be...just may be, the 'moment' is sort of temporal singularity. I know, this sounds too abstract.

The thing is, there are words. Words try to define some thing - when really there isn't any 'thing'. The belief in actual things is the issue - the word 'moment' is just a word - there is no thing called a moment - as you state 'what is happening seems fluid smooth' (no edges).
In fact there are no things - nothing ever forms - but words make believe there are solid things.
Really there is only what appears to be happening - which cannot be named or denied.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where are the edges? Can the point where a moment starts and the point where it ends be found?
Whatever is happening is seamless.

Yes, what ever is happening seems fluid smooth.

May be...just may be, the 'moment' is sort of temporal singularity. I know, this sounds too abstract.

The thing is, there are words. Words try to define some thing - when really there isn't any 'thing'. The belief in actual things is the issue - the word 'moment' is just a word - there is no thing called a moment - as you state 'what is happening seems fluid smooth' (no edges).
In fact there are no things - nothing ever forms - but words make believe there are solid things.
Really there is only what appears to be happening - which cannot be named or denied.

'Definitions' with words become meaningful when there is something to give a name to. Something that is 'long lived' enough to be classified (registered and given name, or definition).

When you say "..when really there isn't any 'thing'", I say there is...it is environmental changes that in their repetition, from 'now' point of view, have become a stable pattern (no changes compare to previous state).

Did I get your drift correctly?

originally posted by: greenreflections

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: greenreflections
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where are the edges? Can the point where a moment starts and the point where it ends be found?
Whatever is happening is seamless.

Yes, what ever is happening seems fluid smooth.

May be...just may be, the 'moment' is sort of temporal singularity. I know, this sounds too abstract.

The thing is, there are words. Words try to define some thing - when really there isn't any 'thing'. The belief in actual things is the issue - the word 'moment' is just a word - there is no thing called a moment - as you state 'what is happening seems fluid smooth' (no edges).
In fact there are no things - nothing ever forms - but words make believe there are solid things.
Really there is only what appears to be happening - which cannot be named or denied.

'Definitions' with words become meaningful when there is something to give a name to. Something that is 'long lived' enough to be classified (registered and given name, or definition).

Naming is the origin of particular things - the first name (concept) is 'I am'. The belief in that 'I am' is the belief in a 'thing'.
The belief is 'I am a thing' and then all other things come into existence - they don't really though - because there are no things - there is only ever what is happening.
The belief that 'I am a thing among other things' creates the need for survival - so I must now protect myself because in time I will die.
But really there is no time and no thing that could die because there are no things there is only ever what is happening - and no one is doing what is happening because there is no one (no thing).
It is just a mis-conception.

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.
acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

WORDS / IDEAS

We are word and idea junkies; we are addicted to semantic systems.

This means that we use words/ideas with an unchallenged confidence that they bear a somewhat accurate correspondence to the actual state of things, Reality.

Within a limited context this may be somewhat true. We can record information, instructions, recipes, etc. in words, and another human will be able to use those words to approximate the "real-world" conditions we intended to refer to. This semantic functionality has apparently given our species a large evolutionary advantage.

BUT... for "spirituality", inquiry into Reality, into our true condition, words/ideas are worse than useless. They are potentially our biggest impediment.

This is because we may tend to assume that the objects/actions which words refer to, ACTUALLY EXIST IN THE WAY THE WORDS THAT REFER TO THEM SEEM TO DEFINE THEM. That is, we may tend to view our experience as being actually made up of the objects and actions that the words we are using to describe it imply.

This is a fundamental mistake, due to the fact that ALL experience is in actuality an infinite, constantly changing, non-repeating, indefinable (in any final way), unpatterned field of miraculously appearing Radiantly Present "energies" existing nowhere else than IN experience, perceived by unknowable, miraculously appearing "consciousness". But our use of words implies that objects and actions may actually exist in the way we refer to them, as knowable, definable objectively existing "beings", "things" and "situations".

This is actually NOT the case.
theopendoorway.org...

I can simplify this if time didn't exist there could be no movement. Now time doesnt have to be this smooth flow step by step from past to future. We know time can be warped just like space meaning time isnt the same for everyone or every location . Think of a DVD the entire movie is there to be played out but i can go to the beginning the end it all exists. Our universe is the same way everything that has happened or will happen is there. Our movement through the universe is time.

originally posted by: Andy1144
If all there is, is this moment then time does not exist. But it is still felt as real on the level of experience. The illusion is real in other words, it's a paradox.

In my opinion, it is not a paradox if I think of 'now' not as something timeless, but something that 'resists' time by creating lasting instance in the flow. Could be that 'now' is still moving with the rest of cosmic matter although it is the product of matter, its higher complexity level, if you will.

My posts are very unscientific. Don't ask me to provide a link to a reliable source of what I say

originally posted by: dragonridr
I can simplify this if time didn't exist there could be no movement. Now time doesnt have to be this smooth flow step by step from past to future. We know time can be warped just like space meaning time isnt the same for everyone or every location . Think of a DVD the entire movie is there to be played out but i can go to the beginning the end it all exists. Our universe is the same way everything that has happened or will happen is there. Our movement through the universe is time.

"..Our universe is the same way everything that has happened or will happen is there. Our movement through the universe is time.."

So, universe is static and you are moving in it. That's how you experiencing time and since universe is static, future (landscape) is predictable. You just have to look further ahead to learn more at what is coming?

Did I get this right?

May be, energy is bound to complicate itself when there is no end to complexity level? Similar to free fall (beyond certain point it becomes an unstoppable run away event.. time is vector).

what physical event could serve as memory carrier?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Time and Money go hand in hand. Time is Money. Neither exist in reality.

a reply to: greenreflections

Yes but I think I see what is being implied in your questioning and I wouldnt say it would void free will if you look at all the different possible things that could ever happen(aka multiverse theory) as being like on a record mixer that is 'randomised' but that we can exert conscious could ntrio over using our actions dframed by ideas and intent.

Or if you'd prefer, imagine all the multiverse lined up next to each other, and we as conscious beings have the ability to affect which of our choices we make and thus decide which universe we are in.

None of that would void dragonriders(awesome, I'm) theory of time being motion through a 'static' universe as you call it, but it would mean that while we could see the future it could always be changed. This would also go torwards explaining the prophecy paradox or as it's more commonly referred to the self fulfilling prophecy