Forget Wikileaks...this is the real October Surprise that is going to stop Hillary

a reply to: pavil

"Obama set it up"?

Well, it is called OBAMAcare isn't it.

#nopointinarguing

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: Greggers

You somehow believe those with the most resources will stick around if they're forced to pay more? That's the real foundation of trickle down economics, because without it there are zero jobs.

Trickle down economics doesn't work. When rich people get tax breaks, they have an opportunity to save it. Often, they do. When poor people get tax breaks, they dump it right back into the economy because they have to.

But that's neither here nor there.

Whether they will stay here is a question worth asking. It depends upon how their assets are tied up. Some things are easier to move than others. It also depends upon to what extent globalization has eroded our ability to prevent them from moving all their capital out of the country sans taxation, which of course is one of the reasons why the wealthy elite pushed for globalization to begin with.

Globalization allows the elite to move their capital freely without consequence without any regard for the welfare of those in the country where their money was earned.

So it might not be as easy as simply levying a new tax.

Unraveling 30 years or runaway power/money consolidation is harder than that.

Trickle down doesn't work but either does taxing big businesses out the wazoo. They just pass the buck to the consumer and we all lose.

a reply to: StallionDuck

I work for a multinational multi billion dollar company who pays for our insurance. Year before last, my insurance premiums went up as well as our plan. We paid a minimal flat fee and everything was taken care of. Last year, this changed. Now we pay a fee and 20% and a premium.

That's not due to the ACA.

That is your employer screwing you over and blaming the ACA.

a reply to: Greggers

ACA is accelerating us to THAT a reality.
THAT is why I wanted Carson.
I can BUT LAUGH if it happens, THEN you ALL can get screwed like VETS!
AND STILL PAY for it!

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: kruphix

I get insurance through my work and it's gone up a crazy amount in both my premiums and my max out of pocket.

Again, this is your employer screwing you over...not the ACA.

They are using the ACA as an excuse...some are even using it as a way to push people off of their work sponsored plan so they can cancel work sponsored plans all together.

But that is your employer doing that, nothing else.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Greggers

ACA is accelerating us to THAT a reality.
THAT is why I wanted Carson.
I can BUT LAUGH if it happens, THEN you ALL can get screwed like VETS!
AND STILL PAY for it!

Sounds sweet!

originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: Greggers

You somehow believe those with the most resources will stick around if they're forced to pay more? That's the real foundation of trickle down economics, because without it there are zero jobs.

Trickle down economics doesn't work. When rich people get tax breaks, they have an opportunity to save it. Often, they do. When poor people get tax breaks, they dump it right back into the economy because they have to.

But that's neither here nor there.

Whether they will stay here is a question worth asking. It depends upon how their assets are tied up. Some things are easier to move than others. It also depends upon to what extent globalization has eroded our ability to prevent them from moving all their capital out of the country sans taxation, which of course is one of the reasons why the wealthy elite pushed for globalization to begin with.

Globalization allows the elite to move their capital freely without consequence without any regard for the welfare of those in the country where their money was earned.

So it might not be as easy as simply levying a new tax.

Unraveling 30 years or runaway power/money consolidation is harder than that.

Trickle down doesn't work but either does taxing big businesses out the wazoo. They just pass the buck to the consumer and we all lose.

A little more equity is in order. That's all I'm saying.

Globalization, Free Trade policies, and other efforts advanced by the wealthy elite have tipped the scales way too far in their own favor.

A little more equity is in order. That's all I'm saying.

lol equity
is that what the dems call communism now ? Equity thats a laff riot!

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: Mr Headshot
a reply to: kruphix
Kinda going to spin off that, but isn't it funny that that is the argument being made by the left now? The poor and disaffected who don't get the insurance through their work (basically the people who were invoked to pass the bill) are going to, now, take the brunt of the hikes.

Of course they will because they're the ones on the exchanges.

One thing Hillary would like to do is provide more federal funding to get younger people signed up, to lower the risk pool and in turn lower premiums.

Of course, the Republicans won't work with her on it because "OBAMACARE," so who knows.

I guess everyone is holding out for single payer, which is the inevitable result once the insurance industry collapses under the high cost of medical treatment.

yes, the young ones who are also making minimum wage or close. If they make any money at all, they will miss the subsidies and be paying the $500 to $800 a month the rest of us have to pay.

The way it was before Obamacare was much much better for everyone except the one's with pre-existing conditions.

It's a shame we couldn't have someone who was smart enough to grasp that. Then they could have just tried to fix that tiny slice of the population instead of jamming a broomstick up the rest of us.

===

The problem is out of 330 million people in the Unites States almost
133 million Americans or 45% of the population have AT LEAST ONE
chronic health condition which makes insurance for them automatically
nearly unaffordable. They are paying $300 to THOUSANDS of dollars a month
to manage the conditions either directly OUT OF POCKET or from Employer Insurance.

Of that 133 Million over 40 Million (CDC - Centre for Disease Control
and National Health Council statistics 2015) CANNOT get insurance
of ANY KIND because NO INSURANCE COMPANY will offer insurance
to them PERIOD !!!!!!

So 40 million IS NO SMALL SLICE so while Obamacare had the RIGHT INTENTION,
it's execution was a farce and a travesty because NO ability to negotiate prices
with drug providers or medical services companies was put into the legislation
due to GOP and Insurance Industry lobbying and pressure.

A single player system with BULK discounts and a SINGLE POINT of
computerized patient management is needed.

Up here in Vancouver, Canada where I live, as part of
Medicare (it's open to EVERYONE of not just those over 65!)
I have a single point of patient management! I can choose
ANY doctor to I want see or goto any hospital I desire
WITHOUT having to check if the doctor or hospital
is affiliated with a specific HMO plan or insurance policy!

So no matter where I am in the Province of British Columbia
(which is much larger in geographic size than Texas!), any doctor
or clinic can pull up my medical records and view it digitally
and any Xrays and imaging is sent digitally to anywhere needed!

My prescriptions are the same as I can got ANY pharmacy
IN CANADA to get any meds needed quick and fast.

It also means the GOVERNMENT has the negotiating power
to ensure good prices with drug manufacturers.

So instead of my dad paying an Amercian hospital bill
of $75,000 for two hip replacements, it only cost him
his normal Canadian monthly medicare premium of $120
or so and maybe $300 worth of non-covered items such
as a new multi-feature walker.

In the US, if you get Type-2 diabetes in your 40's
and work at a low-wage McJob at $11/hour,
in ten years or less you will be DEAD from the
glucose intolerance damage done to your body
(i.e. Kidney failure, nerve damage, and blindness)
because you CANNOT afford the $1000/month
for Insulin and Copays needed for Type-2 management!
No insurance company would cover you because
it would be considered a pre-existing condition.

Under Canada's single payer system,
you'd get insulation medication
and an education program
to manage your medical conditions.

Again, in the USA you will DIE!

So while it's your choice America,
it's sad to see that 290 million of you
are saying "Screw You" to 40 million
uninsured children and low-wage workers!

AND i should let you know that almost ALL
State Welfare programs NO LONGER offer
medical premiumsubsidies or even help
because their budgets have been cut to
such levels that ONLY the very young
(2 years old or less) and those over
65 have ANY amount of coverage!

And UNLIKE what you see and hear
about in the Media about freebies
for Welfare Queens and Illegal Immigrants,
that hasn't been the case for almost 5 years now!

Poor Patients, Illegal Patients and the Old
ARE being turned away from hospitals
and clinics because they don't have the cash
or have no or inadequate insurance EVEN WITH
the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)
which states emergency rooms can't do that!

The reality is NOW VERY DIFFERENT
than what you are seeing on TV !!!!

Peopel ARE dying OUTSIDE of Emergency Rooms
becuase they WERE turned away and MANY
DIE EARLY form chronic conditions which
could be remedied by a single-payer
health care system!

In MANY parts of the USA your medical care
system IS THIRD-WORLD STATUS because
the free/charity medical centres have no
equipment or enough money and doctors
to run them! And MANY non-free hospitals
ARE ILLEGALLY TURNING AWAY PATIENTS because
of inability to pay or inadequate insurance!

a reply to: Greggers

Yeah it's REAL blast.

originally posted by: StargateSG7

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: Mr Headshot
a reply to: kruphix
Kinda going to spin off that, but isn't it funny that that is the argument being made by the left now? The poor and disaffected who don't get the insurance through their work (basically the people who were invoked to pass the bill) are going to, now, take the brunt of the hikes.

Of course they will because they're the ones on the exchanges.

One thing Hillary would like to do is provide more federal funding to get younger people signed up, to lower the risk pool and in turn lower premiums.

Of course, the Republicans won't work with her on it because "OBAMACARE," so who knows.

I guess everyone is holding out for single payer, which is the inevitable result once the insurance industry collapses under the high cost of medical treatment.

yes, the young ones who are also making minimum wage or close. If they make any money at all, they will miss the subsidies and be paying the $500 to $800 a month the rest of us have to pay.

The way it was before Obamacare was much much better for everyone except the one's with pre-existing conditions.

It's a shame we couldn't have someone who was smart enough to grasp that. Then they could have just tried to fix that tiny slice of the population instead of jamming a broomstick up the rest of us.

===

The problem is out of 330 million people in the Unites States almost
133 million Americans or 45% of the population have AT LEAST ONE
chronic health condition which makes insurance for them automatically
nearly unaffordable. They are paying $300 to THOUSANDS of dollars a month
to manage the conditions either directly OUT OF POCKET or from Employer Insurance.

Of that 133 Million over 40 Million (CDC - Centre for Disease Control
and National Health Council statistics 2015) CANNOT get insurance
of ANY KIND because NO INSURANCE COMPANY will offer insurance
to them PERIOD !!!!!!

So 40 million IS NO SMALL SLICE so while Obamacare had the RIGHT INTENTION,
it's execution was a farce and a travesty because NO ability to negotiate prices
with drug providers or medical services companies was put into the legislation
due to GOP and Insurance Industry lobbying and pressure.

A single player system with BULK discounts and a SINGLE POINT of
computerized patient management is needed.

Up here in Vancouver, Canada where I live, as part of
Medicare (it's open to EVERYONE of not just those over 65!)
I have a single point of patient management! I can choose
ANY doctor to I want see or goto any hospital I desire
WITHOUT having to check if the doctor or hospital
is affiliated with a specific HMO plan or insurance policy!

So no matter where I am in the Province of British Columbia
(which is much larger in geographic size than Texas!), any doctor
or clinic can pull up my medical records and view it digitally
and any Xrays and imaging is sent digitally to anywhere needed!

My prescriptions are the same as I can got ANY pharmacy
IN CANADA to get any meds needed quick and fast.

It also means the GOVERNMENT has the negotiating power
to ensure good prices with drug manufacturers.

So instead of my dad paying an Amercian hospital bill
of $75,000 for two hip replacements, it only cost him
his normal Canadian monthly medicare premium of $120
or so and maybe $300 worth of non-covered items such
as a new multi-feature walker.

In the US, if you get Type-2 diabetes in your 40's
and work at a low-wage McJob at $11/hour,
in ten years or less you will be DEAD from the
glucose intolerance damage done to your body
(i.e. Kidney failure, nerve damage, and blindness)
because you CANNOT afford the $1000/month
for Insulin and Copays needed for Type-2 management!
No insurance company would cover you because
it would be considered a pre-existing condition.

Under Canada's single payer system,
you'd get insulation medication
and an education program
to manage your medical conditions.

Again, in the USA you will DIE!

So while it's your choice America,
it's sad to see that 290 million of you
are saying "Screw You" to 40 million
uninsured children and young or old workers!

Sounds like an awful idea. Our politicians will just be lobbied and will be looking out for their lobbiests and own pockets and not the interest of the public.

It's why the Epi-pen price increase occurred. Donations made from the company, increased regulations on competitive drugs, monopoly over Epi-Pens. Costs went through the roof.

a reply to: Throes

The Epipen episode was interesting because
the epipen for Canadian is much cheaper than
yours...again due to NO negotiations with no
bulk purchase agreements as Canada does!

---

But beyond that, what SHOCKS ME THE MOST,
is that in the last FIVE YEARS, the U.S. Medical
system has deteroriated in almost EVERY CITY
IN AMERICA --- Huge lineups in Emergecny
rooms (some people get to wait TWO DAYS in
the emergency to see a doctor --- Imagine sitting
in the Emegency room in pain for 48 HOURS!)

Some hospitals are running with
JUST TWO DOCTORS for 150 patients!

In many rural/semi-rural areas some
hospitals CLOSE DOWN for the night
accepting NO NEW PATIENTS until
they re-open in the morning because
no money is available to staff them
AND NO DOCTOR with $500,000 student
loans (YES!! Half-a-Million Dollar Student Loans)
can or wants to work in those areas!

I can say, that in some cities and rural areas
of the USA, you would actually get BETTER
medical care in HAITI than in the USA !!!!

Almost ALL individual States have
SLASHED medical spending to the
bone and basic insurance costs even
WITH Obamacare have risen almost
30% in less than 4 years!

If Obamacare is REPEALED I can ABSOLUTELY SAY
with COMPLETE CERTAINTY that after two years,
medical insurance premiums will have RISEN
ANOTHER 30% no matter what happens
because the medical system has and
IS getting more and more greedy!

In fact, I will say that by the Year 2022,
that for EVERY $100 you Americans
spend NOW on your medications and
medical bills will turn into $180 which
is a staggering rise ESPECIALLY after the
fact it is PROJECTED that your AVERAGE
wage will DECLINE by up to 7% in that
same time period!

It is SO BAD OUT THERE, that some industry
observers see the current 12% of the USA
being Uninsured and receiving NO medical care
rise to as much as 30% having NO medical insurance
or no doctor care by the year 2022!

So look around in your classroom, your workplace,
your school yard. for every 10 people you see
THREE will have NO INSURANCE AT ALL !!!
Those three will likely be DEAD because of
a chronic health condition within 10 years
of onset!

ANOTHER THREE of those 10 people you
see will NOT HAVE ENOUGH INSURANCE
and will be bankrupt within 2 to 5 years
of any major medical event even after
a lowly broken finger!

That broken finger can and will turn out
to be a $15,000 to $30,000 medical bill
which you don't have enough extra money
or your current insurance doesn't cover properly
to pay but that the collection agencies WILL KEEP
COMING FOR for DECADES after the event!
Those OTHER THREE PEOPLE will soon
be joining the working poor afterwards!

AND YES IT REALLY IS THAT BAD IN AMERICA NOW !!!!!

And in fact, it's MUCH WORSE than ANY of you
can Imagine at just how bad the US Medical system
has gotten for medium-wage to low-wage to
truly poor working people!

a reply to: Greggers

Not only I read it, I quoted it.

Here are the average increase in premiums in battleground states.

Ohio: 13.12% increase
Florida: 17.40% increase
Pennsylvania: 32.5% increase
Nevada: 11.74% increase
Maine: 21.24% increase
New Hampshire: 12.44% increase
Virginia: 21.68% increase
North Carolina: 24.30% increase
Iowa: 20.46% increase
Michigan: 16.06% increase
Wisconsin: 20.39% increase

Yeah they won't be happy

Yup I'm sure most real Americans would chose a few thousand more in pockets than giving it to o mongrel so he can pay for his if he had sons black lives matter degenerated protestors.

I don't think dems realize we'd rather watch them die then lie among them and pay for heir lives.

originally posted by: drewlander
a reply to: Greggers

Not only I read it, I quoted it.

You only quoted the first sentence or so, and I doubt you read beyond that. If you had, I hope you would have left a relevant reply.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

A little more equity is in order. That's all I'm saying.

lol equity
is that what the dems call communism now ? Equity thats a laff riot!

I don't know what the dems call anything.

But you go ahead and continue getting raped by the true owner's of our government. Just don't expect a kiss when they're done with you.

Oh, and don't expect them to be thankful for the fact that you're helping advance their interests on the internet by speaking against your own.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: mobiusmale

Most people get their insurance through their work, the next largest segment has Medicare/Medicaid. Those that get their insurance through the exchanges, not all of them are experiencing a large premium hike.

The people you are talking about that are effected by these premium hikes are a small minority that won't tilt the election one way or another.

But go ahead and think this will change blue states to red.

It's not the premiums that people notice, true. I keep track of that more than other people and I have seen my work insurance premiums rise.

No, the thing people notice is the deductibles and co-pays. Those have likewise risen. It's noticeable and painful.

I notice also that you did not deny that the ACA is not failing to meet the promises that were made. Like premiums going down.

For those of you who are interested in seeing just how unbalanced the situation has gotten, go watch Requiem of an American Dream on Netflix. I thought it was common knowledge how consolidated money and power has gotten at the top and how bad that was for the rest of us, but perhaps it's not.

Go watch it.