Vote for who I shoud vote for

originally posted by: ketsuko
Vote for who you are going to vote for. It's not for me to make up your mind. I don't know what your needs and situation and beliefs about what the best course for this country are.

I have plenty of those, but I have zero indications that any of them are correct, it's much more likely the opposite that everything I believe is incorrect and I just haven't figured out why I'm wrong yet. So how can I use that to guide my vote? Unless the point is that voting is supposed to be opinion based rather than fact based. Which, if that's the case why ever bother with things like fact checking debates, or arguing over who is better/worse?

If voting is based on nothing more than opinion, then the entire concept of political debate is pointless.

Both are wonderful, you really can't go wrong.

a reply to: Aazadan

Trump Will Uphold your Constitutional Rights if Elected .
Hillary will try to Stifle them .
Trump will Improve the Economy , and put More of your Hard Earned Money in your Pocket by Reducing Taxes on the Middle Class .
Hillary will Increase your Taxes taking Money Out of your Pocket to Perpetuate the Welfare State .
Trump Will Stop Illegal Immigration , thus Preventing Criminals from entering the Country .
Hillary wants Open Boarders that will allow Criminals to do Business in the U.S. .
Trump wants to Clean House in Washington and get Rid of the Massive Corruption there from Both Political Parties .
Hillary wants to Ensure the Continuation of the Corruption in Washington by Passing Executive Orders as President that will Protect her Corrupt Crony Donators .




I could go On and On , but you get the Point . This Election is a No Brainer.......

a reply to: Aazadan

There is always going to be a certain amount of opinion involved though.

Did I check out the platforms? Sure I did. Have I thought long and hard about them? Yes.

But if I tell you what I think you should do, then I am injecting a good deal of opinion into the process because I can only give you what, in my opinion, is the best choice. It may be the best choice for me, but will it be the best choice the way you see the world? Maybe not.

For example, there are plenty of people out there who think that a single payer health care system is absolutely the answer to every single problem to our health care woes. I think that based on how well the government runs the VA and other, similar government services (like education), that suborning the entire health care system into a huge government-run bureaucracy is only inviting trouble. And in my mind, Obamacare only adds evidence for this. As a transition piece between what we had and what they hoped would be single payer, it's a disaster.

But maybe you are one of those people who still think we should just give them a chance to do whatever they want all over again because maybe this time they'll do it right.

Thing is that I simply have no faith at all in our current government to do anything for any of our best interests anymore, but there are plenty who still think it can and will usher in Utopia on our behalf, and they're all voting for Clinton.

And now, I've gone and spoiled things with my opinion ...

originally posted by: Aazadan
I don't see the system is broken, and can put forward a pretty good argument that it's not, in just about every metric aside from purchasing power we're better off now than we were 10, 20, and 50 years ago. So why should I vote for a new system?

You're obviously not living in Rural America, are you?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
You're obviously not living in Rural America, are you?

I live in the middle of a small town in Ohio (about 16k people), and depending on the direction you're going there's between a 30 and 60 minute drive to hit any other civilization.

That doesn't feel rural to me, because I live in town but by the definition it's not an urban area, so it would be classified as rural.

I live in a rural area of a rep controlled state. It has it's own form of corruption and favoritism. .

I live in a city that's split between two states. One side is booming and the other side is decaying.

The decaying just lost one of its signature events that it's had for over 100 years to the other side and the mayor more or less just shrugged. He's more dialed in to building street cars and making the urban core hip, trendy, and adding electric car plug-ins to it.

originally posted by: ketsuko
But if I tell you what I think you should do, then I am injecting a good deal of opinion into the process because I can only give you what, in my opinion, is the best choice. It may be the best choice for me, but will it be the best choice the way you see the world? Maybe not.

Here's the problem with that. I don't live life by making the choice best for me, I make the choice that's best for society. Sometimes that involves the best choice for me and sometimes it doesn't. The idea that what's best for me is best for the world doesn't work because I'm not capable of making the best decision for myself. I'm limited by known information, and then further limited by imperfect decision making skills.

Let me give a small example. About an hour ago I ran down to Starbucks to get a drink before they closed. It's just a little grocery store kiosk version but they still have a pretty expansive menu, it had maybe 50-60 drinks on it. I eventually settled on something (an unsweet Peach Tranquility tea). I'm happy with my purchase, but if you exclude the drinks I definitely didn't want there were still maybe 15 different varieties competing with each other. I have no guarantee that I picked the beverage I would most enjoy, and odds are I didn't. Therefore, even in that situation where I had near perfect information I was incapable of making the best choice. This is true of all consumer interactions, which are ultimately nothing more than voting with purchasing decisions.

Therefore, I can think I'm voting for the candidate that's best for me, but I have no guarantee that that's what I'm doing, I could very well be voting against mine or societies best interests. Which means, how can I possibly trust my vote along that metric?

That rules out basing a vote on who I like more which is really just an extension of personality anyways.

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't live life by making the choice best for me, I make the choice that's best for society

Well then you most certainly won't be voting for Clinton.

Anyone does vote for her is showing how much contempt they have for 'society'.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, then why are you voting progressive? It's the progressives who always rail against people who refuse to vote in their best interests.

However, I am looking at policies that will keep the country strong. As far as I am concerned, that's what the government does. It is not the government's place to hold my hand, but when the government actively interferes with my life and my family by setting policies that either weaken or endanger the country or by keeping us from reaching our full potential, I vote away from that.

As far as sacrificing myself for "the greater good" ... for me that could very well mean giving up what standard of living I now have. I know how migraine sufferers are often treated (or more accurately NOT treated) in other countries that have single payer systems. If you don't respond to the government-approved, one-size-fits-all universal treatment, then you don't exist and are sacrificed for "the greater good" of the budget.

I spent over a decade living with chronic migraine. That was more than enough. I got over being all noble and self-sacrificing on that score long ago.

a reply to: Aazadan

TRUMP!!!

a reply to: Aazadan

Regardless of how Trump makes people feel because of his abrasiveness to those who are sensitive and have panic attacks based on doctored media narratives about him, I am still voting for him because I want to see him dismantle and destroy every single failed policy of the Obama dictatorship, and some from GW Bush's regime who also lacked respect for the constitution, and he had said the constitution was just a piece of paper.

Reading the recent plans of what Trump is going to do to get people working and making money again is worth everyone voting for just based on that alone. Obama did nothing but promise to create jobs while destroying millions of them. Bush did the same things and raised fees for almost every kind of government service there is, including jacking up immigration and Visa fees by ten times what they were before.

Liberty and freedom has declined in obscene ways under Obama, and with Bush as well, but much more with Obama. Hillary will carry on the same as Obama and she will crap all over everything she can get her gnarled hands on, making life for every single American a miserable and soulless experience, much like Obama has done.

Trump has said he will reverse these obscene and Un-American policies and he deserves a chance for every voter to discover if he follows through on them, which he will do, because he does what he says he will do. With Obama and Hillary, we already know for a fact that they always do the opposite, and they lie and hide the truth about their real motives EVERY SINGLE TIME. These things cannot be denied.

Trump is all about the bottom line, like any smart business owner, and he will make America great again, because that is what any decent person would desire to have as what people remember them for, someone who DID IT. Someone who serves their country to make it truly better, and glad to be alive again. With Obama and Hillary, people will always be thinking about negative things, and with Obama, there are more suicides than ever before, because people lost hope after so many broken promises.

Some people in Shanghai China committed suicide because of how Michelle Obama, and Obama's mother in law treated them like dirt when they were there, and insisted everyone near them act as their servants. This is the kind of total TRASH we don't need LOOTING America for everything they can load onto semi-trucks and barges at our expense, and Hillary will do that even more to load those Clinton foundation coffers like she has already done like someone with absolutely no self control, or any care in the world if anyone finds out or not, and anyone getting in her way DIES.

Trump is the answer to this problem.

Well, nearly 3 pages and the score is still 0-0.

I guess the take away is that no one actually has good reasons for voting the way they are. That doesn't say much for democracy. Perhaps not voting is the only viable move afterall.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Well, then why are you voting progressive? It's the progressives who always rail against people who refuse to vote in their best interests.

Where did I ever say I was?

a reply to: Aazadan

I guess the take away is that no one actually has good reasons for voting the way they are. 

No, That's just your opinion.

Vermin Supreme, because isn't it about time every American got a pony? Isn't it about time we went back in time and ended the threat Hitler poses to history?

a reply to: Aazadan

Semi-Rural Ohio and you think things are better today than they were 10, 20, or 50 years ago? Bullcrap.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Semi-Rural Ohio and you think things are better today than they were 10, 20, or 50 years ago? Bullcrap.

For the nation? Definitely better. For my specific town? I would say breaking even, certain things are worse such as my towns drug and crime problems which go unanswered, but other parts are better... for example the pain pill epidemic is getting under control, people have health insurance, and walmart moving into the town (and in recent years, fast amazon delivery) means a wide variety of goods are easily available.

originally posted by: VP740
No, That's just your opinion.

Perhaps, but at the start I did list what counted as a good reason. There hasn't been a single qualifying point yet for any candidate which tells me that people don't really have good reasons for voting the way they're voting. They have reasons they like, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good reason.

I haven't really participated in any political discussions here. It seems like they take all of the worst aspects of ATS, and amplify them by orders of magnitude. I've certainly lost an enormous amount (well, all) of respect for some members.

Overall though, I see Trump as the best choice.. even if that makes me cringe a bit.

For me at least, its a multi-faceted decision. One aspect is that so many in government are against him that I believe it will provide a solid balance, or block, to anything he might try to accomplish. In my mind, a lot of it is about maintaining balance so that, ideally, the largest percentage of the population has representation. Which brings up my next aspect;

Clinton is a risk for creating a supreme court that is majority, if not all, liberal. While I may not necessarily agree with most conservative decisions, I feel their presence is critical in our government representing the largest spectrum of our population. Its blasphemy, I know, but as a supposed representative republic, I believe its more important to have accurate representation than everyone in these positions agreeing with one side or the other. Not to mention that liberalism has been decimated from within, from ideology to frivolous issues.

The last is that I see a chance that Trump might be serious about leaving a legacy predicated on improving and progressing our nation. He already has money and power, and I can see motivation to actually do a "good job."

None of it is a sure thing, but if we are going to roll the dice on the future of our nation, I see some truly positive prospects with Trump even if I feel its more possibility than probability. At the very least, I see more of a chance at maintaining status quo and given our choices, that may be the most likely best case scenario.

There are other factors for me, but those seem to go into arenas that you are not looking for in this thread.