Vote for who I shoud vote for

If you've read my posts you've probably seen that I like to make fun of Trump a lot, but the truth is I don't really like Hillary or Trump, I don't see any real differences in either being President. Normally, I would just not vote but I'm in Ohio which is a key swing state, so I feel like I have to vote.

So I'll turn it over to the rest of you to give me someone to vote for.

Here's the rules:
#1. Each point can only count once, but a poster can make multiple points.
#2. I want to vote for something, not against something. Voting against someone is easy, build a candidate up. This applies to the usual "He/She sucks" but also to third party arguments, voting against the main parties is not voting for something, it's only voting against what we already have.
#3. Facts only, not ideological opinions. This means that "X has the better tax plan" is not a fact. Prove it, and you can't just say something like "lower taxes=I have more money, and the economy grows more" because that's not a fact. Similarly "X will give free college" may be a fact (assuming they can get it through Congress), but that's neutral. Show why that's good or bad with actual consequences.

I'll periodically go through and score the points that are valid.

originally posted by: Aazadan
If you've read my posts you've probably seen that I like to make fun of Trump a lot, but the truth is I don't really like Hillary or Trump, I don't see any real differences in either being President. Normally, I would just not vote but I'm in Ohio which is a key swing state, so I feel like I have to vote.

So I'll turn it over to the rest of you to give me someone to vote for.

Here's the rules:
#1. Each point can only count once, but a poster can make multiple points.
#2. I want to vote for something, not against something. Voting against someone is easy, build a candidate up. This applies to the usual "He/She sucks" but also to third party arguments, voting against the main parties is not voting for something, it's only voting against what we already have.
#3. Facts only, not ideological opinions. This means that "X has the better tax plan" is not a fact. Prove it, and you can't just say something like "lower taxes=I have more money, and the economy grows more" because that's not a fact. Similarly "X will give free college" may be a fact (assuming they can get it through Congress), but that's neutral. Show why that's good or bad with actual consequences.

I'll periodically go through and score the points that are valid.

Hilary Criminal is just Obama no change in a dress. She will square up to Russia unnecessarily. She is part of the Dynasty network which delivers no change or improvement for the people only the rich.
Trump is a maverick and has balls, says what he thinks but doesn't want unnecessary foreign conflicts but would deal with toss pots. He's not part of the US establishment that I hear all you folk say you want to escape from well now's your chance!

Beware the smiling arrogance of the invincibly minded mother!!

Don't vote for the corrupt lying hypocrite power hungry creep

That should remove at least two candidates

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776
Don't vote for the corrupt lying hypocrite power hungry creep

That should remove at least two candidates

Lesser of evils and no more of the same is the only option!

a reply to: Aazadan

If you can't make a decision on your own then please don't vote.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Aazadan

If you can't make a decision on your own then please don't vote.

I agree, but, Obamacare is effecting everyone in their pocketbook. Trump promises to repeal it first thing. With Hillary costs will continue to increase every year.

a reply to: Aazadan

#2. I want to vote for something, not against something. Voting against someone is easy, build a candidate up.

That's very good thinking, I wish more people could figure out voting for the lesser of two evils isn't enough in the long run.

As for wanting facts... Hillary has a track record, which you can examine for yourself. Personally, I agree with Trump that her promises should have been redeemed by now. From her I'd just expect more of what we already have.

Trump is a bit trickier to deal with. I'd like to point out, most of the outrage about the controversial remarks attributed to him, isn't about what he actually said. Examples include: He said all Mexicans are rapists, he said all Muslims are terrorists, he bragged about sexual assault. I'd suggest ignoring anything said against Trump since he started his campaign, try to find what he actually said in context instead. Also, compare his remarks from his campaign with things he said before. He puts on a sort of clown act on the campaign trail (for added attention I guess?). When you see him on some interviews, he looks like a different person, and sounds much more reasonable. Pay special attention to his biographies and interviews which were made before he ran under the GOP ticket.

While Trump's developed a reputation for being a straight talker, I don't get that impression. Many of the comments that people were outraged over sounded vague, equivocal or sarcastic to me. Contrary to being an extreme right-wing nut, he has a history of identifying more as a Democrat and criticizing the Republicans for being to far right. While his views seem overly left-wing for my taste, I view his ability to switch parties due to practical factors as a positive thing. I can only guess what he'd do in office, but I imagine a sort of 'gang war' with the Trump family cleansing some corruption and pulling DNC alliances to his side. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of 'collator damage', or to see him leaving a wake of destruction as he goes out in a blaze of glory.

If neither candidate evokes much confidence in you, a protest vote for a third party is perfectly honorable. The two parties are probably laughing about how we've been brainwashed to the point that we'll support candidates we despise, just because their rhetoric paints them as the lesser of two evils.

a reply to: Aazadan

Don't vote and, in effect, give your consent to be governed by anyone on the ballot.

Or that's what I plan on doing. I don't want to discourage you from voting.

a reply to: Aazadan

Vote for Trump...

The reason: Look at who is the most voiciferous against him: The Establishment. That splits both partisan sides of America, Establishment Democrats and Establishment Republicans. Every group that has been rightly despised by the vocal citizens of America over the past 2 decades HATES Trump and have spent untold millions to stop him... why? Why are the corrupt establishment career politicians so opposed to him? Why are the CEOs of all the globalist multinational corporations against him? Why has the media crafted such a detestable, polluted Narrative™ against him and why are they defending it at all costs? Why have the media completely stopped reporting on Clinton's laundry list of crimes and corruptions? WHY?

If you want to fight against a broken system, Trump is the only logical candidate to support in this race.

a reply to: Aazadan

Johnson and heres why.

Depending on which state youre in, Blue or Red, your vote may note even count.

For example, voting Trump in a Blue state is completely pointless because Hillary is getting the electoral votes regardless.

Same applies to voting for Hillary in a Red state.

As a matter of fact, the entire election is going to depend on 6 states: FL, PA, OH, MI, NC and AZ.

Thats it.

Every other state's votes, and more importantly electoral votes, have already been determined.

HOWEVER,

Voting for Johnson is a real vote for change.

As anyone can plainly see, nothing changes from one POTUS to the next, Republican, Democrat, doesnt matter.

We have a 2-headed 1-Party system.

So the MOST important thing we can do is to introduce a 3rd Party.

And in order to do that, we need to get Johnson/the Libertarian Party 5%.

If we can get him 5% this year, it means that the Libertarian Party will get matching funds and a national platform in the next election.

And we've never been this close since Perot.

It wont happen overnight but a vote for Johnson is a vote for REAL change.

We have to break this 2-Party stranglehold on our nation and this is a concrete step towards that crucial goal.

Thank you.

If you want to fight against a broken system, Trump is the only logical candidate to support in this race

It really is that clear and simple. People just can't seem to put their emotions and personal feelings aside long enough to actually think.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Aazadan

If you can't make a decision on your own then please don't vote.

I can come up with plenty of rational as to who not to vote for, and then I can pick the least bad. That's voting against someone though. I want to vote for someone.

a reply to: Aazadan
I think burdman made the best case as to why we should vote for Trump. When you put all of the other nonsense aside the right choice is crystal clear.

Trump may not be sincere or he may totally screw up but he's our only chance to change the direction this country is headed. Though it may be a long shot, I think most people think it's worth a try.....and that does not make a person a nazi, or racist, or bigot or whatever lol.

Dp

Dp

a reply to: Aazadan

Dear lord don't take my advice.

I'm an idiot.

Still tied at 0-0. Every response so far has either been opinion or X is bad.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Don't vote and, in effect, give your consent to be governed by anyone on the ballot.

Or that's what I plan on doing. I don't want to discourage you from voting.

I've told many others here to do so. I still may do so. However, I live in a state where voting actually matters. Not voting is a vote against all of the above. I'm sick of voting against something.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
If you want to fight against a broken system, Trump is the only logical candidate to support in this race.

I don't see the system is broken, and can put forward a pretty good argument that it's not, in just about every metric aside from purchasing power we're better off now than we were 10, 20, and 50 years ago. So why should I vote for a new system?

originally posted by: GoShredAK
It really is that clear and simple. People just can't seem to put their emotions and personal feelings aside long enough to actually think.

Putting aside my emotions and actually thinking is precisely what I'm attempting to do. I don't know everything though, I'm not one of those people who automatically knows the answer. Every single subject I look at comes down to opinion vs fact though. Lets take economics. Trump and Hillary both have their spending plans and their tax plans. I've taken several economics classes in college, I've consulted with a bunch of MBA's and Doctors in economics, I've looked at the plans, and I've seen what the talking heads have to say. I simply don't know enough on the subject to know the answer, and every expert I've either seen on TV or spoken to has an opinion, many of them mutually exclusive. There is no actual fact driven consensus inside or outside the political spin.

If the experts can't figure it out, what business do I have in even making a choice on the matter?

That same logic holds for every single issue on the table, if issues aren't something I can reasonably decide on, that leaves personality and temperament. One cackles at killing people, has a body trail, lies to congress, and takes bribes. The other bribes politicians, screws people on contracts, clearly never took a workplace seminar on no meaning no, and is a racist, xenophobic, conspiracy nut. There's nothing to vote for there either, only voting against whoever is most despicable which is purely opinion based.

Which brings us back to my OP. Give me some metric to actually vote for one of these people on that's quantitative and factual.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

Dear lord don't take my advice.

I'm an idiot.

Me too. It's something of a problem when deciding who to vote for.

The only consolation is that the people we're voting for are idiots too.

a reply to: Aazadan

Vote for who you are going to vote for. It's not for me to make up your mind. I don't know what your needs and situation and beliefs about what the best course for this country are.

The best I could do would be to try to make an argument based on all those calculations for my own personal situation and beliefs.

You aren't me.

Think for yourself.