UFO Lights over Charlotte NC 15 October 2016

a reply to: raymundoko

Your view is very clearly the wrong side of the hotel.

Ah, I see now... I was trying to show the parking lot that I think the video was shot from, not the actual angle of the shot.
And you could be right that the view is more W than WNW, which is pretty close anyway. The airport is due west and less than 10 km away.

In fact you can get a even better angle if you move into the small road just left of your camera view :-)

I disagree with you that the lights are moving right to left, though...

Been trying to stabilize the video, but I crashed the pc once already so I guess someone with better hardware have to get on that if we are to get anywhere....

BT

Winds blow different directions at different altitudes, so that's hardly an indicator of anything, if they were going one way, and the clouds another, and the wind in the guys face yet another.

originally posted by: raymundoko
It's not always in a triangle. It just randomly made a poor triangle from the perspective of the video.

That's what I'm saying. I don't think these individual lights are representative of a larger structure make of linked balloons, because at some point the size and weight of the structure (even it it's just long strips of wood or PVC pipe) would require the balloons to be too big not to show up in the video.

According to the Internet, it would take about 320 12-inch helium party balloons to lift a 10 pound cat (or support structure). That would probably show up on a video.

a reply to: fleabit

Well as long as we don't have a accurate height and an accurate time we really won't get anywhere with wind movement anyway.

I think it is a better option to try to analyze the movement of the lights individually.

Led balloons on a sting would move differently than led balloons on an array of some sort, and bats would of course move in yet another fashion.

If we can determine that the lights are on some sort of array we could perhaps guesstimate size and come up with a possible way this could have been done.

Led balloons on a string doesn't quite cut it for me at least, but that's just an opinion.

BT

a reply to: beetee

Right to left could be a trick on my eyes, but in the video the cameraman says it doesn't move at all (towards the end, says it hasn't moved at all, stationary). Then when it gets a lot of attention on YouTube he claims it's moving against the wind?

I've tried to ask the poor guy for an approximate time, but he is pretty swamped in comments already, so I guess it is doubtful he'll respond..

BT

originally posted by: MaximRecoil

originally posted by: Phage

Just how powerful do you think those LEDs are? The lights in the OP's video were above the clouds, which, according to a post in this thread, were at 9,000 feet (nearly 2 miles; and even the lowest clouds are over a mile high), and they were being seen, at least partially, through the clouds. Do you think that a tiny LED plus its power source, light enough to be easily lifted by a small helium balloon like in the video you embedded, can be seen from nearly 2 miles away through clouds?

Whatever they were, they seemed to be about as bright as aircraft lights. Any electrical lamp with enough wattage to produce enough lumens to be seen at such a distance through clouds would need a substantial battery to keep it powered for a significant length of time, and substantial batteries are big and heavy. Consider how quickly a car's headlights can drain its 50-lb. battery if the engine isn't running.

BTW: The on/off/dim/bright circuitry extends the battery life almost double.

Also, LED lamps stuffed inside of balloons, by their very nature, can not produce a focused beam, so tricks to get more usable output from electrical lamps, such as the well-designed reflectors in flashlights and car headlights, aren't applicable here. The balloons would create diffused, omnidirectional lighting; good for lighting up a room, not so good for projecting light a mile or two.

I have to differ with that. I work with a lot of different types of LED's. The super-bright white, in the cheap plastic teardrop type package have gained enormous brightness and efficiency over the years. Running at 20 mA at approximately 2 to 4–5 V , using small L-Ion batteries, like the ones that keep your CPU clock running, are capable of lasting 10 to 15 minutes. They can be seen for over a mile, and inside a white balloon, the reflective coatings capture a great deal of what would be emitted away from the viewer.

I think the line of site is from a bit to the left of the day light picture. Check the dark w indows on the NE corner. They are a bit more hidden in the night pic, I think.

45 degrees through the building would be roughly west. Somewhere between W and WNW, my guess.

What size balloon is needed to lift the weight of the electronic package. Can't be a small one.

eta:

The mentioned setup is pretty light.

a reply to: charlyv

I work with a lot of different types of LED's

So, in your opinion, from experience, does this look like LED balloons?

BT

originally posted by: roadgravel
I think the line of site is from a bit to the left of the day light picture. Check the dark w indows on the NE corner. They are a bit more hidden in the night pic, I think.

I've searched a little to see if there is any webcam footage available from any of the nearby hotels. Haven't found any.

a reply to: beetee

Yes, and I have done this , not in an array but singly. The balloon is exactly what you would get on a string if you bought them at the party store, except you need to get a small can of gas and make it yourself. 2 L-ion batteries and the chip size flashing circuit + led can be lifted easily. Not fast altitude gain, but doable. By putting a piece of tape in the balloon attached to a piece of cellophane between the batteries, you can shake the balloon to to pull the cellophane from between the batteries thus activating it.

a reply to: roadgravel

That's the same conclusion I came to which makes for the camera pointing due west.

a reply to: charlyv

Okay, and how high could such a contraption go in your estimate?
3600 feet is the level of the lowest cloud cover we think, would that be possible?
And if you had to place it on some sort of frame, still achievable?

BT

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: beetee

Yes, and I have done this , not in an array but singly. The balloon is exactly what you would get on a string if you bought them at the party store, except you need to get a small can of gas and make it yourself. 2 L-ion batteries and the chip size flashing circuit + led can be lifted easily. Not fast altitude gain, but doable. By putting a piece of tape in the balloon attached to a piece of cellophane between the batteries, you can shake the balloon to to pull the cellophane from between the batteries thus activating it.

Thank you for explaining how to do this.

I and I am sure many people would appreciate it if you could do this and demonstrate it "just for us".



No excuses now, a video uploaded to YouTube is the bare minimum.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: roadgravel

That's the same conclusion I came to which makes for the camera pointing due west.

I think it is a bit north of west but it's close. I we knew where the person stood we could get a fairly accurate line.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: beetee

Yes, and I have done this , not in an array but singly. The balloon is exactly what you would get on a string if you bought them at the party store, except you need to get a small can of gas and make it yourself. 2 L-ion batteries and the chip size flashing circuit + led can be lifted easily. Not fast altitude gain, but doable. By putting a piece of tape in the balloon attached to a piece of cellophane between the batteries, you can shake the balloon to to pull the cellophane from between the batteries thus activating it.

Thank you for explaining how to do this.

I and I am sure many people would appreciate it if you could do this and demonstrate it "just for us".

No excuses now, a video uploaded to YouTube is the bare minimum.

I do not have the time for all of this , but I will help you. The fun is doing it yourself.




Elastic band wrapped around 2 batteries together +- +- , cellphane between, tied to a tape that is secured inside the filling mouth of the balloon. The knot gets tied around it. +/- pins of chip/led soldered to + and - sides of battery pile.
I will leave the rest to your imagination. Have fun. BTW: mine flashed colors, by using an RGB led, using a standard high power white led, you do not connect the middle wire (rgb leds have 3 inputs) (disk battery shown is in a holder, you do not need that part)

originally posted by: charlyv

I have to differ with that. I work with a lot of different types of LED's. The super-bright white, in the cheap plastic teardrop type package have gained enormous brightness and efficiency over the years. Running at 20 mA at approximately 2 to 4–5 V , using small L-Ion batteries, like the ones that keep your CPU clock running, are capable of lasting 10 to 15 minutes. They can be seen for over a mile, and inside a white balloon, the reflective coatings capture a great deal of what would be emitted away from the viewer.

An LED lamp which draws only 20 mAh at 3 volts is only 60 milliwatts. Before I'll believe that a lamp that is only 3/50ths of a watt can be seen from a mile away, I'd need some proof. I have 11-watt LED bulbs (183 times more wattage than the LEDs you're talking about) in the light fixtures in my house, which produce about the same amount of light as a traditional 60-watt incandescent bulb. I doubt those would be very visible at a mile, at least not without a reflector to focus the beam, let alone nearly 2 miles away, through clouds.

Being inside of inflated balloons makes matters worse, not better. The balloons are translucent, not transparent, which means a portion of the light is being blocked by the balloons. Also, the balloons are not made of a reflective material, and if they were, that would be even worse to the point of uselessness, because no light would escape. Wrap an LED with tinfoil and then tell me how well you can see its light. Reflective is the opposite of transparent or translucent.

The reflector in e.g., a flashlight is bowl-shaped and situated behind the lamp so that light traveling rearward from the omnidirectional bulb is reflected forward, thus focusing the beam straight ahead. This is the best way to achieve distance. An inflated balloon works similar to the powdery white glass housing on a "soft white" lightbulb, i.e., it diffuses the light and it is omnidirectional. This is good for lighting up a room, rather than just focusing the beam onto the floor like would happen if you hung a flashlight from the ceiling. But this is the worst way to achieve distance, because light is scattered in all directions, meaning no one at a distance is receiving even close to the full output of the lamp. You'll never see any device meant for projecting light (e.g., flashlight, spotlight, headlight, etc.) that doesn't have a bowl-shaped reflector behind it.

a reply to: MaximRecoil

All I can say is try it yourself. This is ATS, you can do it..

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: MaximRecoil

All I can say is try it yourself. This is ATS, you can do it..

The LED lamps you're talking about: how many lumens per watt?