Nicola Sturgeon moves Scotland a step closer to indyref2 with Independence Referendum Bill

a reply to: ScepticScot

Unfortunately, i am fairly convinced that things will go tits up after Brexit. Quite simply, our economy is going to take a pounding. This whole "marmite" scandal has made me giggle - quite why the Brexiteers think that things won't cost more when the price of importing them has gone up is actually completely beyond my understanding - i would have thought that was basic and self explanatory but clearly not! The pound has tanked, ergo things cost more. And we have not even triggered Article 50 yet.

Safe to say, when we do and the economy tanks further, we will have problems. If you want decent social care, roads, hospitals, etc, then you need a decent strong economy. As soon as it goes down, the tax revenue dries up and then everything becomes difficult.

But hey, at least we won't be run by Brussels then! Give it a few years and some serious chickens will be coming home to roost......

Anyhow, that is all by the by for this particular topic so i apologise for going off track.....

As a hypothetical, IF Sturgeon gets her wish and you get another referendum, what do you think will happen if she loses that as well? By this i mean do you think that will be it for the forseeable future? The Scottish have always struck me as the more pragmatic members of our Islands so i can't really see any serious desire for referendum after referndum.......but i may be wrong there?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Jimmy Cranky is blagging you again my Scots friends. A new referendum isn't Plan A, B, or even C, this is simply a negotiation tactic to get the best possible post Brexit deal for Scotland which I fully support. Ordinary Scottish people would take a massive hit if all the various Defence establishments were transferred back across the border, resulting in huge job losses in those industries and those associated with them. I would not like to see Scottish people suffer like that but I do believe that people should live in a country they themselves govern and if that is what the vast majority of Scots want "so be it" I say, regrettably.

I am not a big fan of referenda as they give politicians (spits) a cop out. After all if you are gonna throw the decision out to the populace every time something that really matters needs deciding, why not just have a popular vote on everything? In todays technical we could theoretically do away with scumbags altogether and just have a popular vote on everything.

It's Krankie not cranky. For the love of the wee man people, lets try and at least be accurate with our insults .....

Everyday is a school day.

a reply to: Flavian

Good question.

While I am pro Scottish independence I don't think now is a good time for another referendum. The uncertainty cause by the upcoming brexit would make it unfair on both sides of argument. The case should be made on the long term benefits and costs not short term fear.

Besides which if was my call to make* I wouldn't be even considering a second referendum unless polling 55%+ in favour consistently.

*Sadly I am not yet supreme ruler of all Scotland so it isn't.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Jimmy Cranky is blagging you again my Scots friends. A new referendum isn't Plan A, B, or even C, this is simply a negotiation tactic to get the best possible post Brexit deal for Scotland which I fully support. Ordinary Scottish people would take a massive hit if all the various Defence establishments were transferred back across the border, resulting in huge job losses in those industries and those associated with them. I would not like to see Scottish people suffer like that but I do believe that people should live in a country they themselves govern and if that is what the vast majority of Scots want "so be it" I say, regrettably.

I am not a big fan of referenda as they give politicians (spits) a cop out. After all if you are gonna throw the decision out to the populace every time something that really matters needs deciding, why not just have a popular vote on everything? In todays technical we could theoretically do away with scumbags altogether and just have a popular vote on everything.

It's Krankie not cranky. For the love of the wee man people, lets try and at least be accurate with our insults .....

Everyday is a school day.

Only some people keep playing truant.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Jimmy Cranky is blagging you again my Scots friends. A new referendum isn't Plan A, B, or even C, this is simply a negotiation tactic to get the best possible post Brexit deal for Scotland which I fully support. Ordinary Scottish people would take a massive hit if all the various Defence establishments were transferred back across the border, resulting in huge job losses in those industries and those associated with them. I would not like to see Scottish people suffer like that but I do believe that people should live in a country they themselves govern and if that is what the vast majority of Scots want "so be it" I say, regrettably.

I am not a big fan of referenda as they give politicians (spits) a cop out. After all if you are gonna throw the decision out to the populace every time something that really matters needs deciding, why not just have a popular vote on everything? In todays technical we could theoretically do away with scumbags altogether and just have a popular vote on everything.

It's Krankie not cranky. For the love of the wee man people, lets try and at least be accurate with our insults .....

Everyday is a school day.

Only some people keep playing truant.

I deliberately did on the day we were meant to be studying unfunny Scots with strange sexual proclivities.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Jimmy Cranky is blagging you again my Scots friends. A new referendum isn't Plan A, B, or even C, this is simply a negotiation tactic to get the best possible post Brexit deal for Scotland which I fully support. Ordinary Scottish people would take a massive hit if all the various Defence establishments were transferred back across the border, resulting in huge job losses in those industries and those associated with them. I would not like to see Scottish people suffer like that but I do believe that people should live in a country they themselves govern and if that is what the vast majority of Scots want "so be it" I say, regrettably.

I am not a big fan of referenda as they give politicians (spits) a cop out. After all if you are gonna throw the decision out to the populace every time something that really matters needs deciding, why not just have a popular vote on everything? In todays technical we could theoretically do away with scumbags altogether and just have a popular vote on everything.

It's Krankie not cranky. For the love of the wee man people, lets try and at least be accurate with our insults .....

Everyday is a school day.

Only some people keep playing truant.

I deliberately did on the day we were meant to be studying unfunny Scots with strange sexual proclivities.

Strange sexual proclivities?????

It seems like little Jimmy Krankie is stuck in some kind of groundhog day!! Is this what referendums have come to? Oh I don't like this out come, lets redo it till I get what I want! If Scotland was to leave it would be worse than it already is, they would lose what ever independence they gained to the EU in a heart beat.

originally posted by: rigel4
Krankie is making a fool of herself and Scotland in general.

Wakeup people and get rid of this divisive vindictive SNP government.

Spoken like someone who has no clue of that which they speak...

originally posted by: jrmcleod

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: djz3ro

The thing is, the Scottish independence referendum was done KNOWING the UK had a vote coming up about leaving the EU. Scotland decided to stay in the UK.

IF Scotland gets another independence referendum, it will set a new low bar of "if we don't like what our country voted AS A WHOLE, we'll just have another vote until we get the results WE want."

You are wrong on so many levels.

Firstly, the Tory manifesto that they got elected on stated that they WANTED TO REMAIN IN THE SINGLE MARKET. They have no mandate for a Hard Brexit. Secondly, the SNP manifesto stated THAT THE SNP WOULD HOLD ANOTHER REFERENDUM IF SCOTLAND WERE TO BE DRAGGED OUT OF THE EU AGIANST ITS WILL. The Tories were elected on 36%, the SNP on 47%. The people of Scotland knew what they were voting for and they saw through the xenephbic attitudes of the Leave camp due to teh failure to deliver anything on the Vow. Hell, even DC knew what was going on, hence why he jumped ship...not to mention farage and Johnson.

The Better Together camp also argued that by remaining in the UK was the only way to guarantee EU single market access for Scotland. That turned out well didnt it?

Scotland entered into the Act of the Union under the guise of an equal partnership. That equal partnership does not exist and hasnt since its inception.

The other fable often touted is that Scotland would be broke because they have a £15billion defecit. If any of you, who are on here with the mantra of denying ignorance take the time to look at the GERS figures that are created in London, by London on Scotlands behalf, will soon see that Scotlands defecit is actually realistically around half that...and thats without ANY financial authority. Clearly 300 years of Londons financial ownership of Scotland has benefited Scotland so well.

Scotland is one of Europes wealthiest nations in terms of renewables, Oil and Gas, Life Sciences etc. Yet we are dreadfully mismanaged in terms of finance. Scottish Whisky exports that leave through English ports are not classed as Scottish exports. Those same companies with HQs in London, are not counted towards Scotlands income. This is just one example. Thats not to mention the billions in Oil listed as an 'undisclosed region' on GERS. r the fact that Norway profited to £5 BILLION in the Oil downturn, yet Scotland profited to £6 MILLION, even though we produced 50% of the amount of oil Norway did. Why? Because the UK government has continually mismanaged oil. I mean, honestly...just Google the Mcrone Report for god sake.

Mcrone Report

The idea that Scotland has to accept what we are told by a government in London that Scotland did NOT vote for is undemocratic. It is also undemocratic to not allow a second referendum on independence when the SNP were voted in on that promise in 2015 with Europes largest share of percentage votes of any political party per popultaion.

Yet the Scots are expected to accept the democratic will of Brexit which is destroying and will ultimately destroy the finances of this nation.

Instead of slandering the Scots with closet racism, and demanding walls be built and tunnels to escape, why dont you all start opening your eyes to what is going on infront of you?

Do any of you actually understand why TM wants to abolish the ECHR? Are any of you even aware of what the ECHR protects you against?

A surge in nationalism in Scotland is seen as devisive and abhorent, yet the surge in British Nationalism is seen as something to be marvelled at...even the BBC has amended its Charter to promote British Nationalism. Our state run media is now full swing Britishness that wer are all forced to pay for. It is beyond rediculous.

The people of Scotland, who want a better future, outwith Westminster and want to build a country that their children and grandchildren can develop on their own merits will hopefully close this failed political union, and those who are unhappy at the democratic will of the people can leave. I am sure the English with their ever increasing hate crimes against foreigners will embrace you all like they have the Europeans.

And please, take off the rose tinted glasses and see Brexit for what it is, a complete spin on nationalist nostalgia from a by-gone era...the dream that the UK can rule the waves again and become the next global super power by building a Yacht and having the tories steer the ship into ruin and despair...its not all bad though, we will still have Marmite!!!!

I actually wish you had posted this topic instead of me. This is exactly why I think we need our independence more than ever...

originally posted by: alienscot1
You can't just have a referendum when you don't like the outcome of the previous one. Its ridiculous, I wish she would just see sense and let it go. It was a once in a lifetime vote and that is it.

Can you read? It was never once in a lifetime. There was always going to be another Referendum if the Political Landscape changed massively and it just has. So you (and everyone else's) insinuation that it's because we just didn't like the results of the last one is as absurd as it is idiotic.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: ScepticScot

The pound has tanked, ergo things cost more. And we have not even triggered Article 50 yet.

Good! Let's hope the pound drops through the floor! We in the rest of the UK outside London need to get our cities back and that means making things again. If our factories can be given a Capri 2.8i vein blast then great, let's get making things again, buy our own stuff, screw the foreign crap and rebuild our societies which I tell you are broken in many Midlands communities due to off shoring and all the kids being unemployed/having joke Supermarket trolley pushing type jobs/in supposed education (hide the doley numbers) then surely it will be good for the country as a whole. Down with the pound! Let's pray it drops further and we can take back our state and get pride back into the country in regions that aren't based on the London zone of City whips government to send in our young boys to fight shay wars for big business/oil/greed.
I voted to stay in the EU, but if Brexit means down with the pound then maybe I voted badly and now see the benefits to leaving the EU.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The pound had for a number of reasons been overvalued and I would agree that in the long run a lower value pound would allow a healthier more balanced economy.

However the pound dropping like a stone is not a good thing when we are currently so reliant on imports and will have a massive impact on people's standard of living. What's worse this impact will be hardest on the least well off as a higher proportion of their income is essential spending.

She'd best be careful, I'm sure there isn't the support for breaking away that she experiences from inside her SNP bubble.

a reply to: SprocketUK

45% at referendum. 48% in most recent polls. A majority of MSPs pro independence and a massive majority of Scottish MPs pro independence.

There certainly is a pretty damn solid core of support.

I don't think it's so much a case of 'we didn't get the results we wanted to we'll keep voting'

To me it's more like 'let's strike now and take full advantage of peoples fears and worries, post Brexit'

I honestly cannot stand this woman, and it winds me up that people still are prepared to vote for her...I urge anyone to visit her constituency which she has pretty much abandoned.

Why should she care about it, now? She's too important, or more like she no longer needs that stepping stone as she's pretty much where she wanted to be...people are seriously thick if they think she's capable of running this country.

I shouldn't count mp's and msp's

They are always out of touch.

From what I've read and seen there are a lot of folks who are against another referendum. Rather than simply against independence.

Little Mrs Kranky is becoming a joke as far as I can see.

That said, if you want a referendum, I'm happy for you all to have one, so long as it doesn't become an annual event.

The referendum worked in Scotland and England and wales. We are far stronger as a group of nations under the British Isles.

Scotland is still Scottish, the Welsh are still from Wales...you love the Lakes and the Norfolk Broads, we love the Cairngorms, Western Islands, Snowdonia and the Cadair.....

We are far stronger than Europe.

Far Stronger?...Please elaborate on your soundbite.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



However the pound dropping like a stone is not a good thing when we are currently so reliant on imports and will have a massive impact on people's standard of living. What's worse this impact will be hardest on the least well off as a higher proportion of their income is essential spending.

That is true, the poorer people are probably going to find it harder to make ends meet if prices go up. You do raise a good point there. At the same time this may be necessary and worthwhile if we see a resurgence in our exporting sector/home production and those same people are brought into society again by increasing employment. There is so much unemployment in the UK and most of it is hidden through mass education and disability etc. A bit like sacrifices in war it may be worth it in the short term if our country can be rebalanced long term. There are so many decent people out there that just want a chance, we still have a very good manufacturing base here in the Midlands but the sky is the limit if we are given the chance of a level playing field by having a depreciated currency. So many skilled people around where I live that can be tapped into by a resurgance of home production, obviously exporting too is a must and we can be the equal of anybody even the Germans when it comes to making kick ass engineering products.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Fact is through a significant percentage of people already live below below the bread line and are forced to use food banks to survive.

And that's not just unemployed but also people on low income minimum wage. We simply cannot afford to sacrifice and through these poor people into the wind.

I have to ask if the current generation should be forced to live in near abject poverty then what will be the expectations of the next?