DNA Dethroned - Inheritance is Protein-Based.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: soficrow

Is this something in tune with "racial memory"?

As I told theantediluvian, I would NEVER use the term " 'racial' memory " !!! However, I do sort of categorize Jung alongside the Sufis, Hindus, Taoists and the like, and give them all credit for doing the best they could with the resources available to them.

Mostly, I want to see what thoughts the info triggers in others' imaginations. Both you and theantediluvian brought up racial memory. Interesting.

a reply to: soficrow

My only thought is that tertiary protein folding does have an effect on various systems.

I thought of racial memory as a developmental and an evolutionary aspect.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: soficrow

I thought of racial memory as a developmental and an evolutionary aspect.

Would you care to elaborate?

Sorry though, I have been sitting here far too long, my butt hurts and my dogs are desperate for a walk. The yard just doesn't do it for them. [Be back in a bit.]

a reply to: soficrow

Like planeria, memory can be inherited and passed down.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: soficrow

Like planeria, memory can be inherited and passed down.

Seems to be a fairly common phenomenon. I quite like that there is a scientifically verified mechanism to explain it.

The research shows that some of these "memories" hang around for hundreds of millions of years - and that ...

...Transient overexpression of nearly 50 proteins created traits that remained heritable long after their expression returned to normal. These traits were beneficial, had prion-like patterns of inheritance, were common in wild yeasts, and could be transmitted to naive cells with protein alone.

But what about the limits? theantedeluvian insists that prions have quite limited storage capacity. What do you think? How much and how far can we extrapolate?

a reply to: soficrow

Hard to even guess.

I think that we probably know 1% of what truly "is".

Each new discovery is fascinating though.

Our only limits are those we impose on ourselves. We "assume" too much. We "assume" we know everything there is.

originally posted by: 191stMIDET
I suppose that explains why human beings share 25% of there DNA with a Banana and MOST of us don't look a damned thing like a piece of fruit.

Whoa! Never thought of that one!

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: soficrow

A couple of question pops to my mind. I am not as familiar with prions as I would wish... Do they have the potential to modify bodily features or properties (such as colour vision, or hardness of nails, etc) years after the animal was born? Also, do they enable animals from a specie to gain expressions which are similar to another specie?

Sorry! Missed this one. ...Great questions. Unfortunately, most prion research is privately owned and protected as Intellectual Property. Open Access twin research does show that epigenetic effects can appear as the individual ages - and many are NOT explained by environmental exposures (!). I highlighted this quote for another post, but it speaks to your question.

Monozyg otic Twins Exhibit Numerous Epigenetic Differences

Human monozygotic twins and other genetically identical organisms are almost always strikingly similar in appearance, yet they are often discordant for important phenotypes including complex diseases. Such variation among organisms with virtually identical chromosomal DNA sequences has largely been attributed to the effects of environment. Environmental factors can have a strong effect on some phenotypes, but evidence from both animal and human experiments suggests that the impact of environment has been overstated and that our views on the causes of phenotypic differences in genetically identical organisms require revision. New theoretical and experimental opportunities arise if epigenetic factors are considered as part of the molecular control of phenotype. Epigenetic mechanisms may explain paradoxical findings in twin and inbred animal studies when phenotypic differences occur in the absence of observable environmental differences and also when environmental differences do not significantly increase the degree of phenotypic variation.

As for different species expressing similar effects, again, the most obvious examples are diseases (zoonotic prion diseases). ...And if we can 'share' the bad effects, why not the good ones?

One limitation to our understanding is that published studies focus on disease affecting a narrow definition of prion, specifically the PrP brain protein, now called the prion protein. However, virtually any protein can misfold and become infectious. So entire worlds are virtually ignored. Too scary I guess.

Exploring the zoonotic potential of animal prion diseases

Following the discovery of a causal link between bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle and variant Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease (vCJD) in humans, several experimental approaches have been used to try to assess the potential risk of transmission of other animal transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) to humans. ...

...These results would seem to suggest that CWD does indeed have zoonotic potential...

Our study has obvious limitations. First of all, it does not take account of factors operating above the sub-cellular level. Although the prion hypothesis locates the major determinants of prion disease pathogenesis in prion protein structure it is clear that additional factors affect the zoonotic potential of animal prion diseases, such as route of exposure, dose, host genetics, age and co-existing morbidities. ...

That's a most interesting thread, Crow, thank you for sharing this awesome discovery! Finally something worth browsing ATS for!

Awesome thread, S+F!

Thank you.

originally posted by: 191stMIDET
I suppose that explains why human beings share 25% of there DNA with a Banana and MOST of us don't look a damned thing like a piece of fruit.

Just saw this, thought you might appreciate it. Especially if you like to swim.

...zebrafish have about 25,790 protein-coding genes (by estimates via ensemble.org), of which around 70 percent are related to genes found in humans. Of note, by the latest count, zebrafish seem to have more genes than humans – the protein-coding gene count for us is at 20,441.

a reply to: soficrow

If they are in the air....human to human..... does this make cancer contagious ?

Replying so I don't lose the thread. So many implications and so much to research. Thank you for bringing this to ATS.

a reply to: soficrow

S & F
Bookmarking for further study.

In jest does this mean if we become Zombies we will have immunity from Monsanto's GMO's?

a reply to: annoyedpharmacist

So you were a cancer researcher and now a pharmacist - you have the goods in that Bunker of yours?

originally posted by: soficrow
Monozygotic Twins Exhibit Numerous Epigenetic Differences

(...)

Epigenetic mechanisms may explain paradoxical findings in twin and inbred animal studies when phenotypic differences occur in the absence of observable environmental differences and also when environmental differences do not significantly increase the degree of phenotypic variation.

This is fascinating. It implies that the organism may alter its coding wayyyy after its genetic makeup has been generated. The organism can adjust its makeup during its life. Geneticists view environmental stress as the only force capable of inducing variants, but evidences are clearly piling up that the organism itself may induce variants via prions.

As for different species expressing similar effects, again, the most obvious examples are diseases (zoonotic prion diseases). ...And if we can 'share' the bad effects, why not the good ones?

True. But my thought goes beyond simply diseases side-effects (wether good or bad). I am wondering if prions are a method by which properties of a specie can be transmitted to another species. The tardigrade resistance to X-rays, for instance.

I am asking, 'cause there's efforts out there to make human-animal hybrids. I mean, efforts from high up.

US Government Funds Animal-Human Hybrid Researches

The official side of the story is organ donation sources and "studies". But I'm wondering if from these "nothing-to-see-here studies" we'll suddenly see soldiers with bulletproof armadillo skin, if you know what I mean.

originally posted by: scubagravy
a reply to: soficrow

If they are in the air....human to human..... does this make cancer contagious ?

Good question, even though it dismisses the main message: Prions can pass on beneficial traits - they can boost survival and play a role in evolution

Your question highlights a big flaw inherent in the old paradigm - the assumption that disease (and other events) can only result from direct cause-and-effect. Not true. Yes, it is true that p53 and PrP(C) prions are implicated in cancer, and no doubt there are numerous more cancer-related prions to be found. But the interactions and relationships are complex and multifactorial - best viewed in the context of a systems approach.

Yes, prions can be transmitted in the air - one of the ways in which "we are all connected" - and yes, cancer has gone from being "extremely rare" in the early 1900's to affecting 1 in 2 American males and 1 in 3 females today. So yes, clearly something has gone terribly wrong.

But it’s not contagion - prions adapt and mutate in response to environmental change. So if we want to understand what’s happening with prions and prion-related diseases, we need to understand the macro-environment (external) and the micro- (internal) one. We need to recognize that ‘changes’ to our environment - our air, food, water and “medicines” - are affecting us in damaging ways we do not yet understand.

I lost a really great quote, but here’s an old overview of a systems approach to prion disease.

2009: A systems approach to prion disease

Systems approaches to disease arise from a simple hypothesis—disease emerges from the functioning of one or more disease-perturbed networks (genetic and/or environmental perturbations) that alter the levels of proteins and other informational molecules controlled by these networks. The dynamically changing levels of disease-perturbed proteins (networks) across disease progression presumably explain the mechanisms of the disease. Systems approaches to biology or medicine have two cardinal features: (1) global analyses to generate comprehensive data sets in the disease-relevant organ or cells across the dynamically changing disease process (e.g. all mRNA, miRNA, or protein levels) and (2) the integration of different levels of biological information (DNA, mRNA, miRNA, protein, interactions, metabolites, networks, tissues, organs, and phenotypes) to generate hypotheses about the fundamental principles of the disease (Hood et al, 2004).

Lately I've started to feel that the effects of one's environment is primary to who you become and from that started to hypothesize that adaptation can happen a lot quicker than what most would expect. Life is so amazing...it seems according to what I understand of the OP, life is arranged to quickly respond to a dynamic world rather than slowly get up to speed through thousands of years of generational, incremental adaptation.

originally posted by: swanne
…fascinating. It implies that the organism may alter its coding wayyyy after its genetic makeup has been generated. The organism can adjust its makeup during its life. Geneticists view environmental stress as the only force capable of inducing variants, but evidences are clearly piling up that the organism itself may induce variants via prions.

Yes. But what might trigger prion 'molecular memory' to ‘wake up’ and take action? If not environmental cues?

....my thought goes beyond simply diseases side-effects (wether good or bad).

To be clear, I do not consider prions beneficial effects to be disease "side-effects." Although some may be, like sickle cell anemia confers immunity to malaria. More to the point, I see prion-related disease to be a side-affect of an adaptive evolutionary process.

I am wondering if prions are a method by which properties of a specie can be transmitted to another species. The tardigrade resistance to X-rays, for instance.

I am asking, 'cause there's efforts out there to make human-animal hybrids. ...

The official side of the story is organ donation sources and "studies". But I'm wondering if from these "nothing-to-see-here studies" we'll suddenly see soldiers with bulletproof armadillo skin, if you know what I mean.

I have absolutely no doubt that human experimentation continued apace in the depths of the Amazon jungle after WW2. No doubt either that what we're seeing with medical applications and plant-animal GMO's is barely the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

For the record, I also think research has gone well beyond the human-animal chimera stage into experiments with human-animal chimera-robotics. All of which (starting with GMO’s) I see as by-products of the elites’ search for immortality. …So where does that take you?

I mean, efforts from high up.
US Government Funds Animal-Human Hybrid Researches

I think governments came very late to the game, and no doubt in response to ‘pressures’ initiated by the global (private) military industry, which links to the space colonization and transhumanism movements (all designed to finance the elites’ search for immortality, of course).

Britain is at centre of global mercenary industry

The three largest defense companies in the world are

Haven’t read this, but it looks interesting even though out-of-date.

2007: Corporate Warriors: The Rise of Privatized Military Industry

Some have claimed that "War is too important to be left to the generals," but P. W. Singer asks "What about the business executives?" Breaking out of the guns-for-hire mold of traditional mercenaries, corporations now sell skills and services that until recently only state militaries possessed. Their products range from trained commando teams to strategic advice from generals. This new "Privatized Military Industry" encompasses hundreds of companies, thousands of employees, and billions of dollars in revenue. Whether as proxies or suppliers, such firms have participated in wars in Africa, Asia, the Balkans, and Latin America. More recently, they have become a key element in U.S. military operations. Private corporations working for profit now sway the course of national and international conflict, but the consequences have been little explored.

In Corporate Warriors, Singer provides the first account of the military services industry and its broader implications. Corporate Warriors includes a description of how the business works, as well as portraits of each of the basic types of companies: military providers that offer troops for tactical operations; military consultants that supply expert advice and training; and military support companies that sell logistics, intelligence, and engineering.

This updated edition of Singer's already classic account of the military services industry and its broader implications describes the continuing importance of that industry in the Iraq War. This conflict has amply borne out Singer's argument that the privatization of warfare allows startling new capabilities and efficiencies in the ways that war is carried out. At the same time, however, Singer finds that the introduction of the profit motive onto the battlefield raises troubling questions—for democracy, for ethics, for management, for human rights, and for national security.

and

originally posted by: SlickMcFavorite
Lately I've started to feel that the effects of one's environment is primary to who you become and from that started to hypothesize that adaptation can happen a lot quicker than what most would expect. Life is so amazing...it seems according to what I understand of the OP, life is arranged to quickly respond to a dynamic world rather than slowly get up to speed through thousands of years of generational, incremental adaptation.

YES!

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: soficrow

S & F
Bookmarking for further study.

In jest does this mean if we become Zombies we will have immunity from Monsanto's GMO's?

Thanks much!

But don't you read? ...We already are zombies - because of GMO's!

a reply to: soficrow
Thanks for the thread!


Am commenting so I can find it again when I have the time to read and absorb all the info. It is a topic which fascinates me greatly.