The Opening of The Bottomless Pit.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks - maybe this will get interesting and the real colours of this Jehovah demiurge will be bought to light

a reply to: Marduk

Of course they had the general term Burud because Ab only relates to THE DEEP, cosmic underground water if you like but there were greater associations not least with The Elder.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Marduk

Of course they had the general term Burud because Ab only relates to THE DEEP, cosmic underground water if you like but there were greater associations not least with The Elder.

The Elder what ?
Abzu isn't attested until 3000BCE

a reply to: Marduk

The elder anything i suppose in theory, just an extended usage, but an interesting one as far as the elder Gods being seen as consigned to the deep in Hurruan culture.

Also for the 'ab/ap' sign, there is a capital letter (majuscule) usage as a sumerogram

Ab Cuneiform

Ab as elder

I wonder if the bottomless pit is a symbol of the Qliphoth. The Bible is littered with duel meanings where there are real places mixed with religious symbology.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

It's more the case that the Jewish Kabbalah is a fraudulent adaptation of the Mesopotamian Tree of Life esoteric tradition, in terms of which the astral based premise for the source of the Apsu was Antares in Scorpio, the roots drawing water from that point upward to were the tree was established in the Field Constellation, Pegasus, the field the greatest measure.

hurr.(I1-6)“Teššub set out; he entered the palace of Allani .A throne was set up as seat. When Teššub,the king,came in,he entered.Teššub came up, raised (himself), sat down on the throne (whose surface measured) a field. .

Mysteries of Dilmun

The Antares Infusion

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Jews were enslaved by Nebbukanesar in Ancient Babylon, not unlikely that the Mesopotamian traditions inspired and thereby were mixed in with their own religious beliefs.

-MM

The term abi or api is the same as the stem of the Sumerian Ap-su or Akkadian Ab-zu, meaning deep

I believe the correct translation for Abzu is " Deep- waters" and its described as an underwater dwelling , But you are correct the sumerian/akkadian portrayal of Enki climbing in & out of the Abzu does seem to look like some sort of pit.



Is there any signs of underground water near the area?

a reply to: Kantzveldt

S&FLAG Kantzveldt

Another of my favourite places in Syria is Bashan the city of giants , which are easier to loot when you are at war

www.zianet.com...

a reply to: ancienthistorian

The area in the mountain lowlands was actually quite lush during the earliest periods of the city with plenty of surface water and therefore also a high water table to be sourced from a well upon the mound, this did change though.

The background against which environmental studies at Tell Mozan have been initiated and interpreted is the existing paradigm of Weiss, Courty and colleagues that a radical environmental change happened after 2200 BC (i.e. during the Early Jazirah IV period), which was caused by a drastic increase in aridity This region-wide and abrupt climatic catastrophe led to the deterioration of agricultural productivity of large areas including the Khabur Basin.

This wasn't entirely disastrous for the city as it was close to a wadi for it's main supply of water.

principally, the latter option would be possible, because: a) there was a wadi close to Tell Mozan67 , the Wadi Mozan, a tributary to the Wadi Khanzir; b) the land around Tell Mozan is perfectly flat; c) there was a higher flow of water in the wadis of the Khabur Region during the mid-Holocene than today6

Urkesh urbanization


a reply to: stonerwilliam

Well i suppose Urkesh was the City of the Giants if the Hurrians can be related to the Horites....opinion is divided.

The nephilim were the powerful ruling ancestors of Abraham's Horite people (Horim). They are called gibbor-iym, which means the mighty ones. They are also called "the mighty men" of old.

Horites

Interesting as in old english, hell was simply 'a hole in the ground'. Makes sense to me.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

excellent read, I've heard of Urkesh before but never knew they performed these rituals , quite an interesting hole, hope they keep digging and find inderground caverns

Or the entrance to Agartha

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Kantz, is it possible you can author a thread about the Sumerian angel or god that taught man or woman about decorating the body and weapon creation etc. in great detail please? I can only find general things about it and I always appreciate your views and explanations of these types of things.

a reply to: Brotherman

I'm afraid that isn't possible because there is no such Sumerian tradition...

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Kantz, is it possible you can author a thread about the Sumerian angel or god that taught man or woman about decorating the body and weapon creation etc. in great detail please? I can only find general things about it and I always appreciate your views and explanations of these types of things.

And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Kantz, is it possible you can author a thread about the Sumerian angel or god that taught man or woman about decorating the body and weapon creation etc. in great detail please? I can only find general things about it and I always appreciate your views and explanations of these types of things.

This is all in my painting you know...Gibil is who you are looking for...

Gibil in Sumerian mythology is the god of fire, variously of the son of An and Ki, An and Shala or of Ishkur and Shala. He later developed into the Akkadian god Gerra.

In some versions of the Enûma Eliš Gibil is said to maintain the sharp point of weapons, have broad wisdom, and that his mind is "so vast that all the gods, all of them, cannot fathom it". Some versions state Gibil, as lord of the fire and the forge, also possesses wisdom of metallurgy.

en.wikipedia.org...

"Gibil, who establishes the [...] of weapon[s],
Who performed miracles in the battle with Tiamat.
Profound in wisdom, skilled in understanding,
[So] profound, that none of the gods can comprehend."

As Sumeria became increasingly militant and dependent upon slavery, actively involved in raiding neighbouring settlements for slaves, Gibil is assimilated in less empowering and more subjugated ways, as were all the creative forces, forced into the underworld to act as judges rather than present as elements of change and transformation on Earth, it is all part and parcel of the core belief, developed by the Sumerians, that man was created to carry the burden of the gods labour, a fundamental justification for the idle rule of Priest/Kings and the slavery needed to support it...funnily enough...not too dissimilar to the way in which Christianity was utilised by colonialist landowners to justify the Transatlantic Slave Trade

The upshot is, there is not much about Gibil, or the other 3 elemental gods that has been preserved from Sumer, as they sought to maintain dominance through ignorance, and the products of craftsmen, rather than the creative spark, become the centre of greater worship in the increasingly stratified social structure.

a reply to: Corruptedstructure

Excellent catch!

Dead Sea Scrolls

In the Dead Sea Scrolls the name Azazel occurs in the line 6 of 4Q203, the Book of the Giants, which is a part of the Enochic literature found at Qumran.[8]

According to the Book of Enoch, which brings Azazel into connection with the Biblical story of the fall of the angels, located on Mount Hermon, a gathering-place of demons of old (Enoch xiii.; compare Brandt, "Mandäische Theologie," 1889, p. 38), Azazel is one of the leaders of the rebellious Watchers in the time preceding the flood; he taught men the art of warfare, of making swords, knives, shields, and coats of mail, and women the art of deception by ornamenting the body, dyeing the hair, and painting the face and the eyebrows, and also revealed to the people the secrets of witchcraft and corrupted their manners, leading them into wickedness and impurity until at last he was, at Yahweh's command, bound hand and foot by the archangel Raphael and chained to the rough and jagged rocks of [Ha] Dudael (= Beth Ḥadudo), where he is to abide in utter darkness until the great Day of Judgment, when he will be cast into the fire to be consumed forever (Enoch viii. 1, ix. 6, x. 4–6, liv. 5, lxxxviii. 1; see Geiger, "Jüd. Zeit." 1864, pp. 196–204).

en.wikipedia.org...

My thinking would be that Azazel can be equated with Buzur, the Sumerian god of the Deep Mines, or "he who solves secrets".

Maybe, maybe not with Buzur, but definately a cunning artificer

a reply to: Anaana

Thanks. I remembered it from when reading the boook of Enoch some time ago. It was one of the passages that always stuck out to me

a reply to: Anaana

Gibil is simply the Babylonian personification of fire, their equivalent of the Sumerian Girra/Erra and hardly any sort of fallen Angel as he was invoked in the burning of witches and sorcerers, as the consort of Kusa concerned with purification through fire, as Erra the foremost of the stars of Ursa Major, the Fox star.

Metallurgy was the concern of the City of Dumuzid, Bad-Tibira, which meant the establishment of metal working,

In ancient times, Bad-tibira was a city situated at the edge of marshlands. This was important, for it was known mostly for it’s reed-burning furnaces and smelteries. Raw ore was brought via the Euphrates and Iturungal Canal to the kilns. Mostly copper, but also gold and silver, were exported from Bad-tibira to artisan shops all over ancient Sumer. These urban centers included: Uruk, Ur, Umma and Adab. Bad-tibira was also a cult-center for the god Lulal, the son of Inanna. Although Dumuzi was named as king of Badtibira, Lulal remained as the tutelary deity of the city.

Given this was the city of Dumuzid then there was also close connection to Inanna of nearby Uruk, their son was the tutelary Deity, the concern though was more with making jewellry rather than weapons;

You are she who displays shining cornelian from the mountains to be admired. Bringing shining lapis lazuli from the bright mountain on special rafts, you are she who, like fire, melts gold from Harali. You are she who creates apples in their clusters.

originally posted by: Corruptedstructure
a reply to: Anaana

Thanks. I remembered it from when reading the boook of Enoch some time ago. It was one of the passages that always stuck out to me

No, thank you. Super handy to know.