Kneeling is not a sign of disrespect

Kneeling when you are supposed to stand is obviously an act of disrespect.

That said, if you have a grievance, exercise your right to peaceful protest.

Not saying I necessarily agree with the bloke that started all this hoo hah, but at least he didn't loot anywhere or hurt anyone to make his point.

a reply to: searcherfortruth

The real epidemic is black on black murders.

Just because the media portrays such doesn't mean so. Their job is to divide and yours is to decipher the truth.

We all know there is profiling and probably because most of the crime happens in the inner cities where more blacks and latinos live. This is evident.

If BLM were not based on hate and based on repairing the issue they would begin in these communities doing something for the kids in these communities. Rioting and looting.. burning their own city is insane and shows why cops find them to be a danger. They are naturally violent because their surroundings are violent. This is the epidemic that needs change.

Below... from a black man.

The truth is that the raw statistics can't tell us whether the police are treating African Americans differently from white people. To understand that, we'd need to look at more details about what happened in each incident. There's a big difference between a case where someone was shooting at the police, and a case where someone was passive and unarmed. One person who has tried to do that is an economist from Harvard University called Roland Fryer, the first ever African American to win the prestigious John Bates Clark medal in economics. This month Fryer released a preliminary study examining records from 10 cities and counties, with the best data coming from Houston - it's not yet peer-reviewed, but it has received a lot of attention in the press. Fryer's research suggests that African Americans and Hispanics are substantially more likely to experience force in their interactions with the police - such as having a gun pointed at them, being handcuffed without arrest, or being pepper-sprayed or hit with a baton. This racial difference is reduced, but doesn't completely disappear, when Fryer adds all sorts of statistical controls such as whether the incident was indoors or outdoors, in a high-crime area, took place at night, and so on. However, Fryer doesn't find any racial difference in the cases where police offers actually shoot someone. The debate over this continues, both on the streets and in academia.

www.bbc.com...

If the football player who started this bs of kneeling would take his time and money to the inner cities he would have the change he is looking for.... or maybe is he looking for more division. Maybe it was a "knee" jerk reaction and one not well thought out. Look at the division it's contributed to.

Ridiculous.

Kneeling Is Not a Sign of Disrespect... then what's the point?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I don't recall anyone specifying certain cops....seems they want them all gone.

It's clear that you have done no research to see what is actually being protested. But, instead, you have decided that they hate all cops. That's just ignorance of the facts.

Educate yourself. It's not cops that are the problem. What is being protested is a system that puts cops who murder unarmed black men on paid leave.

Ah yes, hence the pig cop socks worn by the guy that started it....I a SURE that is what he was thinking at the time...please spare me. Now once it was picked up then the stance may have changed, but it SURELY didn't start that way.

originally posted by: searcherfortruth
a reply to: Vasa Croe

How many people need to die from the hands of cops for you to understand that there is an epidemic out there, it is not all cops and last I looked there were some black cops involved in shooting black people. But kneeling is a sign of submission, therefore, there is no disrespect involved in this form of protest, if anything is a bigger sign of respect in submissive form.

Now maybe if they jump up and down and act like clowns during the anthem people would really have something to complain about, especially if they actually dress up like those creepy scary clowns.

Well epidemic wouldn't be the correct word. There is no epidemic of cops shooting blacks. Sure it is in the news all the time now which may make it look like one, but by definition it is not an epidemic.

I only said blacks because that seemed to be what you focused on.....here is a little figure for you:

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

Source

So almost double the amount of whites in the last year, but yeah it's a black thing.

Now sure they go on to skew the figures by using per capita rates as well, but I don't see anyone arguing that more blacks per capita are being killed, just that blacks are being killed....well guess what....more whites were killed.

originally posted by: MamaJ
If the football player who started this bs of kneeling would take his time and money to the inner cities he would have the change he is looking for.... or maybe is he looking for more division. Maybe it was a "knee" jerk reaction and one not well thought out. Look at the division it's contributed to.

Ridiculous.

Over the last 3 years they have raised over $900,000 with Colin giving a hell of a lot of time, endoresement and his own money.

urbanintellectuals.com...

And that is just one cause. Oops. Wanna try again?

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
So almost double the amount of whites in the last year, but yeah it's a black thing.

Now sure they go on to skew the figures by using per capita rates as well, but I don't see anyone arguing that more blacks per capita are being killed, just that blacks are being killed....well guess what....more whites were killed.

That can make sense BUT factor in the populations of both. 75% White, 12% Black:

www.infoplease.com...

Seems a little disproportional now, doesn't it?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vasa Croe

He is a cop hater or hate what some cops have done
Some cops shouldn't be and need to be chased out

Wearing a badge doesn't mean you deserve it, plenty corruption in the police force, did you not notice?

I don't recall anyone specifying certain cops....seems they want them all gone.

You don't recall or rather in lieu of actually looking you inserted your biases as facts?

Sorry....was there some announcement made when Kaepernik knelt the first time that I missed? His statement was :

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

So...an entire country that oppresses black people...that is a LOT of people. But nobody specified in there, not even cops. Just a country that oppresses black people.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Vasa Croe

What a load of crap. Painting people protesting the excessive use of deadly force as being cop haters is nothing more than at the very least an attempt at censorship and at worst an act of submission to a growing police state.

Pretty sure the violence in the cities by the protesters you speak of took care of showing their hatred for anything in the system....

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
So almost double the amount of whites in the last year, but yeah it's a black thing.

Now sure they go on to skew the figures by using per capita rates as well, but I don't see anyone arguing that more blacks per capita are being killed, just that blacks are being killed....well guess what....more whites were killed.

That can make sense BUT factor in the populations of both. 75% White, 12% Black:

www.infoplease.com...

Seems a little disproportional now, doesn't it?

Sure...that is why I said they had to skew it by using per capita in the next paragraph in the story. By the numbers dead alone, it is almost double whites.

So, the story states one year for the numbers....that would mean roughly 2 white people per day were killed by cops, and roughly 1 per day for blacks, yet the ONLY thing we ever hear about is how black people are being killed by racist cops....

So what does media do? They pick up on only one race and run with it causing more damage than anyone has with race relations in the past. Either way...I am tired of arguing about this. I am a white, married, middle class man and likely won't ever have to deal with any of it according to everyone so I have no bone to pick here.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

How can facts skew anything? Yes, twice as many Whites are killed. The FACT remains that there are 6 times as many Whites. Therefore it's actually 3-1 against Blacks. Basic math.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Vasa Croe

How can facts skew anything? Yes, twice as many Whites are killed. The FACT remains that there are 6 times as many Whites. Therefore it's actually 3-1 against Blacks. Basic math.

It is skewing it by making it sound like more blacks have been killed when in fact that isn't the case. Now if we line up every white and every black and shoot 732 whites and 381 blacks every year we would run out of blacks sooner yes, but there would still be more whites shot every year.

I get the stats with per capita....I really do, but in this instance it is made to make it sound like MORE blacks are getting killed when in fact that is not true at all.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

OK. Would you be more comfortable with a "higher percentage" then?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

And yet, you must not have read what I wrote. The definition of kneeling is what this OP was originally about!

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Vasa Croe

OK. Would you be more comfortable with a "higher percentage" then?

It's not about being comfortable with it. It is about the pure numbers to me. If we decide to use "per capita" and percentages then there has to be another factor which is how many of each race were involved in cases with weapons/violence by officers in general. Now if the numbers that everyone always states are true and there are more blacks harassed and whatnot by police then would that not skew the numbers back in the direction of more whites being killed?

Just the straight numbers of white versus black in the country don't really do anything. That would assume that every white and every black was a criminal.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

So you are dismissive of this issue then? That's exactly the reason for the protests.

originally posted by: searcherfortruth
a reply to: Vasa Croe

And yet, you must not have read what I wrote. The definition of kneeling is what this OP was originally about!

So if it just about the definition of kneeling then why are we in the Social Issues and Civil Unrest forum? Wouldn't a discussion of a definition be better suited for the General ChitChat forum?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: searcherfortruth

Didn't you hear? J.J. Abrams rebooted the National Anthem. Now you can stand, sit or kneel during it and show respect.

That was genius, an all time great episode.

That said this is a non-issue. First it is a workplace rule issue. If the NFL or the team has a policy it has to be followed. Because there is no policy from that team or from the NFL it is a freedom of speech issue. Anyone here think people should not have freedom of speech?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Vasa Croe

So you are dismissive of this issue then? That's exactly the reason for the protests.

Not dismissive at all...I am right here discussing and debating it with everyone else. If I were dismissive I would not be here discussing it at all. I have a different perspective on it than some obviously, but not dismissive.

originally posted by: searcherfortruth
Kneeling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kneeling is a basic human position where one or both knees touch the ground. It is used as a resting position, during childbirth and as an expression of reverence and submission. It is possible to kneel with one leg and assume another position (such as squatting) with the other leg.

They kneel for Royalty, they kneel for the Pope, they kneel to pray, so why is kneeling for the National Anthem a sign of disrespect? Is it actually a law that we must stand for it? No. I think this whole broohaha over these people kneeling is ridiculous.

No where did I mention anything about color or cops, I pointed out something that has been completely overlooked. Kneeling regardless of the intention is NOT a show of disrespect. If you take the literal translation of the definition it is simply a submissive sign of respect. And no where is it written that a person can not kneel during the National Anthem and still respect the flag or country.

He may have done it in protest, but he, also, did what was his right to do, freedom of speech does not stop at the locker room door and last I looked that is a protected right under the Constitution, or does that just get selectively applied when it suits ones purpose, like the right to bear arms?

You say there are more important issues to focus on and guess what you may be right, the stupid debates and political nonsense? How about global warming and chemtrails? Sure I guess the killing of innocent people with their arms in the air is not really all that important, dropping bombs on innocent civilians certainly is a bigger issue, but not many people care about that either, and guess what I bet those people that were killed in the Middle East this past 30 years were all kneeling when they said goodbye.