You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Again, nomad that was all very poetic, but delivers no proof that the god of Abraham is not the God of Islam

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Again, nomad that was all very poetic, but delivers no proof that the god of Abraham is not the God of Islam

Ok so how about some proof that the God of Abraham is the God of Islam?

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Again, nomad that was all very poetic, but delivers no proof that the god of Abraham is not the God of Islam

Ok so how about some proof that the God of Abraham is the God of Islam?

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Ishmael is the son of Abraham... and in Islam he is also an ancestor of Mohammad

the children of Abraham are where the two religions separated as far as i know

a reply to: Akragon

kinda wreaks of... Not the God of Abraham doesn't it?

Indeed!
Like I wrote months ago, the Gospel of John was written decades after Paul died, as a corrective. Paul never managed to get away from the OT deity completely. In Galatians he has all people included into the Abraham promise through faith in Jesus the promised seed. Rather than progress to pre-Abraham he slid back to post-exile 2nd Isaiah by the time he wrote Romans (the backward/forward contradictory way I wrote it is intentional).

His student, who wrote Colossians/Ephesians still didn't quite get it. Almost, but not quite.

The writer of Gospel of John finally gets to pre-Moses and pre-Abraham, finally getting to the God who does not need a special class of racial priests to teach the ignorant heathen. The new/older promise is universal non tribal, no caste system.

And, the racially/nationalistic motivated propagandists will have a harder time picking Gospel of John version of Jesus off than they had picking Paul off (low hanging fruit).

a reply to: Akragon

The Canaanites were related to (descendents of) Adam and Eve. Does that mean they worshiped YHWH as well?

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Akragon

The Canaanites were related to Adam and Eve. Does that mean they worshiped YHWH as well?

No one was related to "adam and eve"... they are nothing more then mythology...

but still... yeah they probably worshiped the same deity

I was taught in RE at school they all worshiped the same God....but that was before they all hated each other again.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Ishmael is the son of Abraham... and in Islam he is also an ancestor of Mohammad

the children of Abraham are where the two religions separated as far as i know

Correct. But do you truly serve a God if it is in vain? The reality is that each religion thinks they are right and the other is wrong. So reasonably one would deduce that someone is right and someone is wrong. Because the teachings and character of said God's being worshipped are clearly and vastly different. Also both Christianity and Islam put emphasis on the spoke name of God.

Yahweh originates from the story of Moses and the burning bush meaning "I am what I am".
Allah likely comes from Al-iah which was one of 360 Arab Gods existing long before Mohamed.

Therefore she said to Abraham, “Drive out this maid and her son, for the son of this maid shall not be an heir with my son Isaac.” [Genesis 21:10]

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. [1 John 2:22-23 NASB]

Choose for yourself. If you are rooted in disbelief it isn't my job to convince you otherwise. I have stated my arguments to interpret as you will. Only your creator can reveal these things to your heart, but it must be open.

a reply to: Akragon

Well they were polytheistic, and worshiped a variety of Gods-- a comprehensive list:

en.wikipedia.org...

By the way. Do people not realize the New Testament is constantly quoting the Old Testament. It does not nullify the OT in anyway. The new Covenant has to do with Jesus Christ and his sacrifice, but he quotes the OT. the NT affirms the OT..

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Yahweh originates from the story of Moses and the burning bush meaning "I am what I am".

Actually said "god" is far older then the story of Moses... the earliest known source of this god came from a region south of Jordon... this area has been renamed Long ago, but said god is a tribal/regional deity named after the region of its origins... YWH

You'll have to find a very old map to find this information

Allah likely comes from Al-iah which was one of 360 Arab Gods existing long before Mohamed.

Allah just means "the God"... thats all... nothing more or less

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. [1 John 2:22-23 NASB]

The issue here is that "denial" means denying his role as God in the flesh... Yes, Islam denies that... unfortunately so does Jesus... so

Choose for yourself. If you are rooted in disbelief it isn't my job to convince you otherwise. I have stated my arguments to interpret as you will. Only your creator can reveal these things to your heart, but it must be open.

Fortunately i an actually "rooted" in study... Christian preaching has no effect on me

but thanks just the same

The new Covenant has to do with Jesus Christ and his sacrifice,

that would be Paulian in nature...

a reply to: Akragon



Well you're entitled to your opinion. You even put out the disclaimer that the info can't be found, or it would be very difficult to find a really old maybe. Laughable really.

TO clarify I replied to your post, but it was aimed at fatkid- so my apologies there. And I don't think I have referenced and sermons so much as the infallible word of God. I love the canned responses.

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

You even put out the disclaimer that the info can't be found, or it would be very difficult to find a really old maybe.

Actually i said nothing of the sort... i said one would have to refer to a very old map of the area... which is far from impossible to find

And I don't think I have referenced and sermons so much as the infallible word of God. I love the canned responses.

Choose for yourself. If you are rooted in disbelief it isn't my job to convince you otherwise. I have stated my arguments to interpret as you will. Only your creator can reveal these things to your heart, but it must be open.

thats called preaching...

And by the way, i am not a "disbeliever" or atheist... or anything of the sort

I just don't buy the silly dogma that the bible is infallible

I know for a fact that it is far from inerrant

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Ok, that is easy

There are numerous references to Abraham in the Quran, including, twice, to the Scrolls of Abraham;[62] in the latter passage, it is mentioned that Abraham "fulfilled his engagements?-",[63] a reference to all the trials that Abraham had succeeded in. In a whole series of chapters, the Quran relates how Abraham preached to his community as a youth and how he specifically told his father, named Azar,[64] to leave idol-worship and come to the worship of God.[65] Some passages of the Quran, meanwhile, deal with the story of how God sent angels to Abraham with the announcement of the punishment to be imposed upon Lot's people in Sodom and Gomorrah.[66] Other verses mention the near-sacrifice of Abraham's son,[28] whose name is not given but is presumed to be Ishmael as the following verses mention the birth of Isaac.[67] The Quran also repeatedly establishes Abraham's role as patriarch and mentions numerous important descendants who came through his lineage, including Isaac,[68] Jacob[69] and Ishmael.[70] In the later chapters of the Quran, Abraham's role becomes yet more prominent.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: zosimov

Do the followes of YHWH pray towards a giant stone?

The temple at Emesa, containing the holy stone, on the reverse of this bronze coin by Roman usurper Uranius

Once upon a time a 14 year old Syrian priest of the Sun god Elagabalus (god of the mountain) it was a stone that fell from heaven and became a mountain (Daniel 2 reference) became the Emperor of Rome(AD 218 to 222).

The Syrian deity was assimilated with the Roman sun god known as Sol Invictus ("the Undefeated Sun").

A temple called the Elagabalium was built on the east face of the Palatine Hill, to house the holy stone of the Emesa temple, a black conical meteorite. Herodian writes of that stone:

"This stone is worshipped as though it were sent from heaven; on it there are some small projecting pieces and markings that are pointed out, which the people would like to believe are a rough picture of the sun, because this is how they see them."
Herodian's description strongly suggests that the Emesene cult was inspired by the Babylonian Akitu-festival.

The Emperor also tried to bring about a union of Roman and Syrian religion under the supremacy of his deity, which he placed even above Jupiter, and to which he assigned either Astarte, Minerva or Urania, or some combination of the three, as wife.[8] The most sacred relics from the Roman religion were transferred from their respective shrines to the Elagabalium, including "the emblem of the Great Mother, the fire of Vesta, the Palladium, the shields of the Salii, and all that the Romans held sacred." He reportedly also declared that Jews, Samaritans and Christians must transfer their rites to his temple so that it "might include the mysteries of every form of worship."

After the Emperor was killed in 222, his religious edicts were reversed and the cult of Elagabalus returned to Emesa
Elagabalus_(deity)

See also: Elagabalus

He almost managed to unite Jews, Samaritans, and Christians, he even got himself circumcised, but his behavior was so scandalous that his Grandmother plotted his assassination along with his mother. At the age of 18, he was killed, decapitated, and tossed into the Tiber River.

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

"Christianity and Islam" do not put emphasis on the spelling, the followers of the religions do.

The books are written in different languages

Abraham is spelled Ibrahim , Joseph is spelled Yoseph, cat is spelled qat...... They are different languages, why is this so hard for your to grasp


If you want to say that allah likely comes from "al-iah"
Then the "Yahweh" originated when there were 70 other gods in the tribes, the link to this has already been posted in the thread, and never was the creator but just a tribal God.

You can't have it both ways.

a reply to: fatkid

And neither can you. (Have it both ways) So it looks as if YHWH was one of many tribal gods, as was Al-iah, but different tribal gods as you pointed out. And there we have it. They worship the same gods in the sense that those who worshiped Shiva, Zeus, Inanna, El, Enki, Ra, Al-ial, Baal worshiped the same gods but not in any real, historical sense.

Worshiping different gods does not mean that we have to hate each other or go to war or anything. I certainly don't have any hate for adherents of a different faith. But they are different.

a reply to: zosimov

Zosimov, if you believe that the God was not the creator, that is your prerogative.

If you can't see that I was not claiming that, or making that my position, then I really have no hopes for you.

But, nice try, by now I'm sure it is more than obvious to everyone that your only intention is to troll this thread and attempt to take what I say out of context, because you yourself have nothing to actually add to the conversation.

a reply to: fatkid

are you saying that the Jews and Christians worship a different God?

Anyone who worships the 2nd Isaiah (chapter 40 -) absolute monotheistic god worships that god whether they call themselves Jews, Christians, or Muslims. They almost all end up considering Jews to be their superiors. The JW and 'replacement covenant' thinking people manage to avoid it.

If, on the other hand, people worship a non-racist deity, whether monotheistic or not, they are less likely to find themselves subjected to masters and owners of the human variety.

And you never answered the question of what your religion happens to be. How 'bout it?