You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: fatkid

You think Christians are gods chosen people, where is that in scripture?

John 1:5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.

The Gospel of John speaks of many mysteries. It is somewhat axiomatic that only those who have entered the mysteries even understand what is written about. People living in darkness can only guess. So here are my guesses:

6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light.

9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
. . .
16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

What it looks like to me is that this "light" if received grants entrance into a family or tribe of the god. That seems like a chosen-ness by the god seeing as it isn't a matter of normal human descent or will but as an act of the god. This writing, Gospel of John, by using the phrase "for of his fullness we all received" presupposes that there are people who have entered this relationship.

From an outsider's view though, it seems clear that the God spoken of does His making and acting through the Son, and not all by Himself. Thus, a god who claims to be completely self sufficient, doing everything that is done all alone with no helpers is not the same god as the one written about in the Gospel of John.

People who are "sons of god"(probably no sexism intended, who knows) would know more about this, but the wording alone seems sufficient to logically conclude that a god with no helpers is not the same as a god with a helper.

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Yes, true. Thank you for that point.

a reply to: fatkid

That's kind of my point. They worship the same God under the law (former glory). To them we are still currently under the old covenant.

Father Abraham had many religions, many religions had Father Abraham.... lol

I remember singing that song when I was a kid. Of course replace religion with sons.

I agree with the OP... thought most knew this but after reading this thread, guess I was wrong.

Conflict began with Adam ( first Jesus on the scene of the story) then... the conflict got real when Abraham came on the scene and still continues in modern day.

The stories are all the same, different times, different names, different countries, but the same story line. Same message.... whereas we can call it HIS-story. His story is also our history.

Man struggles his entire life and in the end "it's finished" unless our earth time needs to begin again.

Man struggles and his goal throughout earth time is to overcome with faith. Reaction to said struggles matter, literally.

The Bible has a code within it.. thanks to Francis Bacon. He was a brilliant man!!

If you don't know who Francis is and call yourself a Christian you may want to read up on him.

a reply to: fatkid

Nowhere did I say Christians were Gods chosen people. Jews, the Israelites were Gods chosen people but as pointed out above in the gospel of John, Jesus came to be a path to all.

a reply to: pthena

That's just what you want it to say, what it actually says is:

Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Or you don't believe that Christians are God's chosen people, I asked a direct question to someone else, which you answered but with an indirect answer

a reply to: whereislogic

Jesus really says or taught. Jesus did not consider the Genesis account as just a story for uneducated people. When addressing well-educated religious leaders (the same types you take your information from), he said: “Did you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female?” (Matthew 19:3-5) Jesus then quoted the words about Adam and Eve recorded at Genesis 2:24.

I do not quite understand what your intent is.
You quoted - “Did you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female?”

I believe that the 1611 KJV is that quote --
Matthew 19:4
"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," --

Are you saying that the "he" in this quote is the Most High El and nothing else"?

If this is what you are saying then you have not considered --
Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." --

Now back up and consider exactly what this is saying. The Most High consists of "Image" and "Likeness" -- Is not what this says very plainly? Then who or what is the image and who or what is the Likeness?

Colossians 1:12-17
(12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
(13)Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16)For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17)And he is before all things, by him all things consist

We see that Jesus is the image and that leaves "The Most High" as the likeness does it not? If the scriptures are true then "The Most High " is invisible and the "Word " is His visibility.

Now if all of that is true then we can see that the Apostle John is also true ----

John 1:1-3
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus was not the "Word" while in the flesh. He was Jesus the Son of man because His substance had changed from the celestial to the Terrestrial and yet He was still the Begotten of the Father because His life Spirit was the same. He had the same memory as being the "Word" and He did not create while in the flesh of man. Now as for the reason of His talking as third party is concerned, I assume is because at this time it was not revealed that He was the preexisting Word of the God of Moses. Who would have believed that did not understand?

Here is another example of Jesus speaking as a third party ---

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Nowhere did I say Christians were Gods chosen people. Jews, the Israelites were Gods chosen people but as pointed out above in the gospel of John, Jesus came to be a path to all.

Very true and to the point. Also consider that if you had said that Christians were the chosen you would have still been correct.

1Corinthians_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians_4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Ok,

but you going to ignore the rest of the post right?

a reply to: Seede

So we agree that they are the same God...

a reply to: MamaJ

I agree with the OP... thought most knew this but after reading this thread, guess I was wrong.

I don't think so much it is a matter of ignorance or not knowing. I believe it falls more under many simply do not want to accept it as truth. Modern propaganda has done a effective job of essentially labeling Islam as doing the work of the Antichrist and devil/evil to the American Christians. Coptic Christians do not share that opinion, nor do most Orthodox sects. That mindset exists almost exclusively in the more Western versions of Christianity found more commonly in USA. Baptists, Evangelicals, Protestants, Lutherans, 7DA, and so on. Even Catholics to an extent.
Fact is though, Islam does not claim to worship a different God. They assign Him various titles and names, but he is still the one God from the days of Abraham.
a reply to: Seede

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Notice how this is said in Genesis, long before Jesus was even born or a thought. It is my personal opinion/belief that this proves it was not a single entity which created us at all, but a collective or another advanced civilization of star travelers. That is not to ignore the possibility of a single great entity. It just seems to me that the way the bible words some things implies that an advanced civi of star travelers (the fallen Nephilim/angels/gods in possessions of miraculous technology for which our primitive ancestors have only so many words to describe it with) were the actual creators and many of the polytheistic and non-Abrahamic faiths share similar wording and references in their own books.

a reply to: Seede

Where does it say chosen in any of that?

a reply to: zosimov

You can't have it one way and not the other....

There are also ancient pagan views on the origins of the Jewish Muslim and Christian faiths

thehistoryofgod.blogspot.sg...

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: zosimov

You can't have it one way and not the other....

There are also ancient pagan views on the origins of the Jewish Muslim and Christian faiths

thehistoryofgod.blogspot.sg...

Exactly. Which makes your point more of a truism and less of a truth. Do the followes of YHWH pray towards a giant stone?

a reply to: fatkid

Deuteronomy was written in the context of a Monolatrist worldview. "recognition of the existence of many gods but with the consistent worship of only one deity." (Wikipedia: Monolatrism).

If a tribal deity chose a family or tribe or confederation of tribes to be special, well that's to be expected, being tribal and all. He may have even claimed to be the creator. That would naturally elevate the tribe's ego somewhat.

Compare the progression:

Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep IV initially introduced Atenism in Year 5 of his reign (1348/1346 BCE), raising Aten, once a relatively obscure Egyptian Solar deity representing the disk of the Sun, to the status of Supreme God in the Egyptian pantheon.[4]

The fifth year of Amenhotep IV's reign is believed to mark the beginning of his construction of a new capital, Akhetaten (Horizon of the Aten), at the site known today as Amarna. Amenhotep IV officially changed his name to Akhenaten (Agreeable to Aten) as evidence of his new worship. In addition to constructing a new capital in honor of Aten, Akhenaten also oversaw the construction of some of the most massive temple complexes in ancient Egypt, including one at Karnak and one at Thebes, close to the old temple of Amun.

In his ninth year of rule (1344/1342 BCE), Akhenaten declared a more radical version of his new religion, declaring Aten not merely the supreme god of the Egyptian pantheon but the only God of Egypt, with himself as the sole intermediary between the Aten and the Egyptian people. Key features of Atenism included a ban on idols and other images of the Aten, with the exception of a rayed solar disc in which the rays (commonly depicted ending in hands) appear to represent the unseen spirit of Aten. Aten was addressed by Akhenaten in prayers, such as the Great Hymn to the Aten.

The details of Atenist theology are still unclear. The exclusion of all but one god and the prohibition of idols was a radical departure from Egyptian tradition, but most scholars see Akhenaten as a practitioner of monolatry rather than monotheism, as he did not actively deny the existence of other gods; he simply refrained from worshiping any but Aten.
Monolatrism: Atenism

From a minor deity to supreme deity to exclusive deity with a ban on idols and other images of the Aten, besides the rayed solar disc representing the unseen spirit of Aten.

A modern example of non-racist monotheism would be Sikhism.

Sikhism (/ˈsɪkᵻzəm/), or Sikhi[3] (Punjabi: ਸਿੱਖੀ Sikkhī, pronounced [ˈsɪkːʰiː], from Sikh, meaning a "disciple", or a "learner"), is a monotheistic religion that originated in the Punjab region of South Asia during the 15th century. The fundamental beliefs of Sikhism, articulated in the sacred scripture Guru Granth Sahib, include faith and meditation on the name of the one creator, unity and equality of all humankind, engaging in selfless service, striving for social justice for the benefit and prosperity of all, and honest conduct and livelihood while living a householder's life.
. . .
Guru Nanak taught that living an "active, creative, and practical life" of "truthfulness, fidelity, self-control and purity" is above the metaphysical truth, and that the ideal man is one who "establishes union with God, knows His Will, and carries out that Will".

The Christian scriptures have a verse "For God so loved the World that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." I don't know what eternal life is, but it sounds like it trumps tribalism. And, there is also the verse from chapter 8, "Before Abraham was born I AM." So the Jesus character claims authority extending to before any promise was given to Abraham. That's pretty wild.

a reply to: zosimov

They do not worship or claim that the stone is their God though. It is revered by them because of its connection to their prophet no? It is like the equivalent of doing the cross over ones chest during prayers as far as I can tell. it is merely one part of many rituals.

a reply to: pthena

kinda wreaks of... Not the God of Abraham doesn't it?

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: nomad4chr1st

Ok,

but you going to ignore the rest of the post right?

Oh at this point in the thread I thought that was totally permissible as you have cherry picked what you would like to respond to. My point about Islam not meaning peace is that it is a common misconception and a point pushed by Islamic apologist. So there is relevance to that info. I never claimed Christianity meant peace- it was actually a slur at one point literally meaning "little christ". It is however a slur I will gladly wear.

As far as infidel goes.. I am not the one who chooses to use that word- Muslims do. Regardless of the root of the word they choose to refer to me (and you) as infidels.

So I am not really sure on what point you would like me to address. Denominations are formed when MAN creates doctrine that is not backed biblically, or when they cherrypick verses to justify those doctrines. This causes division.

My view is simple. Why don't Christians come together on what they do agree on. Many of these issues are not critical to salvation and inheriting the kingdom of heaven.

There is but one church in Christianity. It has no walls. Jesus sacrifice tore the veil and WE became the temple. There are no sacred buildings. The church consists of those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, fully God and fully man.

In John 14 Jesus explains this stating that he will ask the Father to send another helper- the Spirit of Truth.
So in God's eyes there are do denominations. Only those for Him and against Him.

Also somewhere in this thread the law was mentioned. Jesus replaced the commandments with 2. Love your God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. That is all that is required. This is in no way conveyed in Islam.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Buffalo wing flavored popcorn?

I digress...

Judaism to Jesus son of same god, then Islam a Pope invented Christian cult.

OP checks out.

a reply to: pthena

Your post was very long but you never said what your point is, are you saying that the Jews worship multiple gods or are you saying that the Jews and Christians worship a different God?