The Science Establishing the Existence of a Life Force

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Bedlam

Many things which established science deemed non existant were discoverd to exist
It took brave and hard working scientists that percevered to find proof of such things

Dark Matter and Energy
Quantum Mechanics
DNA

I am no scientist as you are my friend so if you would care to keep it at a science for dummies level (which you most often do) I would appreciate it

Fair point. But I woul just like to say that those things tou listed are all things pertaining to science. Now list me things that have to do with souls/God/third eyes/etc that have been proven by brave scientists

understand what I'm getting at?

a reply to: artistpoet

Except Dark Matter and Energy have not been proven at all: They're being looked for. They're a theory that is discussed as if they are facts.

Probably, Dark Matter and Energy are this life force.

I have a suggestion.

Why not take the 5 items in the OP and discuss the relevance of them to proof of a life force.

For example, are you saying that remote viewing is a big fraud and does not exist?

Or, that it has nothing to do with a life force?

Do you know anything about the work of Nikolai Kozyrev?

What about the term that is associated with his work, "torsion fields," which I understand constitute spiraling energy in what is called the "vacuum" of space.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Of course I understand what you are getting at
My point is there are things or aspects of reality that science has yet to confirm or not

As such belief is key
Science has dispelled many superstitions which is a great thing

Science is an ongoing discipline

The question is does The Soul exist
I am not talking about third eyes I see such things as metaphorical
Gods ... A god in it's truest form devoid of suprstition and religion is a governing force

It is just a personal thing of mine ... A want to know
What was the cause, the prime impetus that created the Universe we know
I am not talking Big Bang ...If that idea is true then what caused it
What causes thought occur ... I do not mean measuring brain activity that would be effect

My qustion is about cause ... the cause is unkown only the effect is known

Sorry if I seem akward ... I am just being honest

a reply to: ConnectDots

Yes I agree ... Something has been discovered that shows physics as we know it is flawed in regards to explaining all that is
There is another force or forces at play

a reply to: ConnectDots

Are you saying that remote viewing is a big fraud and does not exist?

What someone else thinks is immaterial if you can prove remote viewing is real. And if your ‘science of the life force’ depends on remote viewing for proof, then you had better prove it is real. Remote viewing is not like gravity; it is not self-evidently true, and most people do not have any information about it, far less actual experience of it. Therefore the onus of explanation and proof lies with you, not with your naysayers.

Do you know anything about the work of Nikolai Kozyrev?

A brilliant scientist whose career was destroyed by Communism. Tell us how his work is relevant to the existence of a ‘life force’.

What about the term that is associated with his work, "torsion fields," which I understand constitute spiraling energy in what is called the "vacuum" of space.

Are you saying you lack sufficient knowledge to explain it better than that? No wonder you’re relying on intuition!

The general scientific consensus is that torsion fields are bollocks.

The group disbanded in 1991 when their research was exposed as a fraud and an embezzlement of government funding... Despite the research being proven fraudulent, Akimov and Shipov received financing for torsion field research from the Russian Ministry of Science from 1992 to 1995 and from the Russian Ministry of Defense from 1996 to 1997, and continued further secretly, as a private enterprise called The International Institute for Theoretical and Applied Physics (later called UVITOR). UVITOR is operating from Bangkok, Thailand since 2005 and appears to offer medical products and services on its premise. The torsion field research has secured support from a number of prominent Thai academics and the national funding agency. Link

If this is the ‘science’ you’re promoting, you have a lot of explaining to do.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Bedlam

Many things which established science deemed non existant were discoverd to exist
It took brave and hard working scientists that percevered to find proof of such things

Dark Matter and Energy
Quantum Mechanics
DNA

I am no scientist as you are my friend so if you would care to keep it at a science for dummies level (which you most often do) I would appreciate it

None of these required "perseverance", because the person(s) that put them forth as valid hypotheses had data, replicable data, falsifiable data, and methods of measuring what they claimed which anyone with some technical ability could replicate.

This, not so much. Thus the reference to unicorn flatus.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Bedlam

Yes but science does not have all the answers or all the tools
There will no doubt be discovery's in the future which will answer questions we have not yet thought of

At that time, if you posit something that you can measure and replicate, you will be regarded as having discovered something real. Until then, if you say "I think this magical mystical thing exists that I shall call "subtle energy" for which I have neither proof nor means of measurement" then you are a crank.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: artistpoet

Probably, Dark Matter and Energy are this life force.

Why? Because it hasn't been discovered and explained yet you jump straight to the supernatural? That doesn't make sense.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: Bedlam

Observed results/effects are science and not "bull crap," as you say.

Observed means measureable. If you have a source claiming their effects are "subtle energy" or "putative energy" what they're telling you is that they're telling porkies.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
I have a suggestion.

Why not take the 5 items in the OP and discuss the relevance of them to proof of a life force.

For example, are you saying that remote viewing is a big fraud and does not exist?

Or, that it has nothing to do with a life force?

Do you know anything about the work of Nikolai Kozyrev?

What about the term that is associated with his work, "torsion fields," which I understand constitute spiraling energy in what is called the "vacuum" of space.

In my opinion remote viewing is a total fraud. Nothing has ever been proven, been shown to work. No remote viewer has ever helped locate a missing person or a mission plane. Crock. Of. Baloney.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: Bedlam

Observed results/effects are science and not "bull crap," as you say.

Observed means measureable. If you have a source claiming their effects are "subtle energy" or "putative energy" what they're telling you is that they're telling porkies.

Exactly. Anything that can be observed and even things that cannot be observed that is going on can be measured. Hell, they can tell the spin of elemental particles for gods sake. They can detect gravity waves, probably the weakest measurement ever taken.

if its going on, it can be measured.

a reply to: Bedlam

Yes you are correct regarding science and proof
My beliefs are my own and unproven by science I accept that

But I am no crank

originally posted by: ConnectDots
a reply to: artistpoet

Except Dark Matter and Energy have not been proven at all: They're being looked for. They're a theory that is discussed as if they are facts.

Probably, Dark Matter and Energy are this life force.

Probably, not.

The thing with dark matter and energy is, we know how some things work. They appear to NOT work in certain circumstances. That is discussed. Everyone knows about this lack. Some people state, if you had some matter/energy that did not put out EM radiation, or interact with it, then you could fix this error. But it would require the oddball matter/energy to behave like THIS and THIS.

Then other people like eros look for things that act that way. If they find this sort of thing, and find a way to measure it, and prove it's there, then it will advance from speculation to hypothesis to theory.

This is also how quantum physics came to be. We could get a lot of things to come out with Newtonian physics. Lots. But in some cases, notably thermodynamics, you couldn't get observation to agree with theory. Everyone knew it. It was discussed. Then one day, someone proposed that you could solve the "ultraviolet catastrophe" by using a series solution that assumed energy came in little discrete packets. And that worked. And then other scientists started looking to see if that fit other observations, and it did, and now quantum physics is used in the computer you are using.

In the case of "life force", you are looking for something that is not only not needed, it doesn't fit. You don't need "life force" or "soul" or "spirit" to make the equations go for the things we know fit observation. It's a sort of 19th century humbug.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
What about the term that is associated with his work, "torsion fields," which I understand constitute spiraling energy in what is called the "vacuum" of space.

Torsion fields are a pseudoscience humbug that was popular in the 70s.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: Bedlam

Yes you are correct regarding science and proof
My beliefs are my own and unproven by science I accept that

But I am no crank

You can believe whatever you'd like, go for it. But it's not science, nor is it scientific to do so, even if you find some cranky website that proposes something you find interesting.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: ConnectDots

Yes I agree ... Something has been discovered that shows physics as we know it is flawed in regards to explaining all that is
There is another force or forces at play

Physics DOESN'T explain "all that is". That's the job of 'religion'. You're looking for what we call "revealed truth", which is religion and philosophy.

Physics observes what we can observe, theorizes why things work the way they do, then tries to explain observation in a way that fits what we know so far and what we can measure. If things show up that don't fit, physics yells "Yippee!" and tries to find what they did wrong.

Religion, on the other hand, claims to know all, but can't explain why they don't match obvious measurements of the real world. It is, however, more convincing if you don't really care for that sort of thing.

a reply to: Bedlam

My beliefs do not stem from cranky websites my friend they are based on my own experience and mental verification
Yes they are not scientific as such but as I stated science does not know everything

a reply to: Bedlam

I am not religous nor a scientist
Religion is the last place I would look for truth
Science is something I admire as a truth discipline but it is not the only way

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Nothing has ever been proven, been shown to work. No remote viewer has ever helped locate a missing person or a mission plane. Crock. Of. Baloney.

IMHO, remote viewing falls into that morass of stuff that you can't replicate nor measure, like reading zener cards or finding the optimal path.

I have seen it work, and not work, and be bogus, and random. Same with zener cards and optimal path.

It gives you tantalizing and mostly useless results every time. The tantalizing bits make people keep tossing money and time down a rathole trying to get it to be less useless. But it's got the occasional homerun that keeps people confused. I don't know what's going on there.

I'd be happy to see it totally disproven, or totally proven, or at least cleaned up in terms of what seems to be going on. But for some reason, it is inconclusive and totally f-d up every time you try to pin it down.