Magic questions No skepticism

Originally posted by Gazrok
So how is some magic deemed "good" in the eyes of the faithful? Is it a simple matter of semantics? Calling it a "prayer" instead of a "spell"? Even Prayer itself is a magical act, a rote of calling on another Power for aid. Would you not agree?

I cannot speak for Catholicism since I only know what I've heard. I can say however, this does illustrate a great point that I've been repeating - Know the source! It's not just what you ask for, but who you're asking and why you're asking for it. I think the Old Testament makes good distinction what the difference is. I think the book of Daniel is a good example.

Originally posted by Magickesists
It just sounds like your having fun with words to tell you the truth. I myself have come to the same conclusion that magic as defined of late is the same as chi or other forms of bio energy. But this thread is one i made for those who undoubtedly believe in magic and other such paranormal or psychical phenomenon. I really mean no offence but i did post another thread previously wich has more to do woith discerning the nature of magic called magic mislabelled science. Unfortunatly it doesn't seem to be to popular right now but oh well.

Anyway i agree completly with your ideas. The thing i am wondering though if it is possible to make something combust with this bio energy would it not also be plausible to assume that the very air itself could be made to ignite with the same energy. After all it would just take a very good understanding of chemistry to mentally manipulate oxygen into fuel and then ignite it, without mechanical or chemical intervention. So would it not be logical to assume at that point that once you learn to make an object comustible then if you higher your magical education then you could launch fireballs.

No offense taken, don't worry.

As a matter of fact, it is possible that I've misunderstood the meaning of your topic, since lately my English has become a little "rusty".

I thought you were meaning something like "what do you think Magic is?", but now I see you were meaning something like "what can you do with magic?"... am I correct?

yes quite correct indeed thanks for understanding. I am not a moderator or anything but its nice to have some guidelines to follow in a thread. Anyway if your debating about the origin or meaning or anything to do with the non- applications check my other thread out.

magic is mislabelled science?

I'm pretty sure you'll find it an interesting read.

My first question is related to another thread i was reading. If someone was to perform necromancy in as much as to talk to a long deceased relative would there be a protective spell that could be cast to keep evil things from coming through a rift that would most likely be formed?

I think that you are messing around with things that you ought not . The things that you are talking about are dangerous, not only physicaly but emotionaly and mentaly. If you want to see true power, turn your eyes toward the creator and try praying to God.

Originally posted by Magickesists
yes quite correct indeed thanks for understanding. I am not a moderator or anything but its nice to have some guidelines to follow in a thread. Anyway if your debating about the origin or meaning or anything to do with the non- applications check my other thread out.

magic is mislabelled science?

I'm pretty sure you'll find it an interesting read.

Will do surely... see you in the other topic then!

first of all in response to everyone. I AM NOT MESSING WITH MAGIC I AM SIMPLY GATHERING INFORMATION. I have not actually started practicing magic to say but i have begun the first simple steps or so i believe. First i have started meditating on a regular basis. The relaxation of all the muscles in either the yoga position or lying down or just plain sitting in a chair. I have finally been able to get the meditation techniques working as in im not just going to sleep im in an altered consciousness. But now i have to start trying to visualize simple things like eating an applae or going to a nice warm beach and taking a swim that kinda stuff.

Again I'm not in this to make fireballs or destroy things or practice necromancy. I am simply gathering as much info from as many areas on the internet library local wiccans, witches, one psychic, and some other practitioners. I have recently been looking at books at the local magic shops as well. My questions here are simply inquisitive to the boundries that are believed and the possibilities of those here.

Oh and poonchang I believe the mackays owned the sutherlands or most of it and i believe that is in the south. Correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by Magickesists
I have decided as a skeptic that maybe i should open an ear to the side of the witches/magicians/warlocks/sorcerors/sorcerists and all others.

My first question is related to another thread i was reading. If someone was to perform necromancy in as much as to talk to a long deceased relative would there be a protective spell that could be cast to keep evil things from coming through a rift that would most likely be formed?

Depends on who you talk to. If you're uncertain, don't try talking to the dead.

Is there magic that is visual as opposed to opinionated. Like can a really talented and well learned magic user cast a spell to make a fire in front of them? Or other direct result magic?

Magic in the physical world is typically just a focus of energy to achieve a desired result. The manifestations of this magic would not appear with any flashy lighting or D&D style effects. If that's what you're looking for, try special effects school for film.

Physical magic is of a sort that's often referred to as non-paradoxical, meaning that no matter who views the result, it won't register to them as magic, but rather just a normal course of events. As was stated earlier with the fire spell, most likely, it would appear as a completely mundane series of events leading to that fire.

What types of extreme magic spells are there? Is there any tombs of arkane knowledge that hold the wisdom of some ancient magic that is far more powerful than that of the spells today?

If you're still asking the more basic questions, then you're not ready for an answer to this question. However, I will give a partial answer. There are tomes written by ancient civilizations regarding their magics that could potentially be far more powerful than what we know of today. However, if you don't know of any offhand, and can't translate the original texts, then don't bother persuing them. And no, the Necronomicon is not an ancient book of the dead, but rather a wonderful work of fiction. And don't even think about trusting anything with the name "Llewellyns" on it for ancient or modern magic. It's all trite misinformation designed to make a buck rather than educate.

Is there a so called holy grail of places to perform magic, like would it be more effective to cast spells in the centre of stonhenge as opposed to the top of a skyscraper.

I've never had the fortune of visiting Stonehenge, but as I've heard from several people who have been there, yes, it is a very powerful place to practice. The key to finding a good place to practice is being able to locate ley lines - rivers of energy that flow through the earth. Intersection points between ley lines typically make great places to practice, as there is a good amount of energy in these areas to draw upon. Finding these ley lines, however is a somewhat different action for everyone. Some people just have a sense about where they are, others use forms of divining to find them, and still others have no hope of finding them unless someone points them out to them. If you're the third of these types, please stick to the basics until you've developed some sort of sensitivity to world energies.


Just a final thought - if you're looking to get into the practice of magics, remember two things. One, there's a great deal of spritual dedication required to mastering this. It'd be best to learn the spirituality of it before even trying to cast magics. Two, there's a lot of dangerous sh|t out there once you start journeying into the metaphysical realm. Don't do it until you're very well grounded in the spirituality and other basics regarding spellcasting - namely protection.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by obsidian468]

thanks obsidian. I am not a power hungry moron though and i am always skeptical about anything new. I have been doing a lot of research and reading about a lot of things. The first thing i thought about magic and its related information sources however is that a very large percentage of the books are just money makers for get rich quick schemers. Really as far as i believe the only way to properly venture into this pursuit is to explore my own mind and consiousness for answers through meditation. After i find those things there is probably a fair amount of information i would be able to decipher. About the arkane tombs of power i was not asking about the necronomicon or the key of solomon or any other translation for that motter but more or less the ones that are not translated or changed or even copied just things that might hold true secrets of a craft unknown. Things that would most likely be legends to those who practice magic and not even widely discussed for that matter.

Magickesists,

From what you've stated, you seem to be on the right track. Just keep up with your contacts... try to make them teachers. Everyone's abilities are different (mostly in functionality - some need "props" [such as stones, wands, candles, etc.], some don't). Also, your strengths and weaknesses will be unique to you. Just go slow down the path, making sure you absorb everything as it comes to you. The best piece of advice I can give to you is to avoid getting ahead of yourself. Trying to learn too much too soon is the fastest way to start making mistakes, and having things backfire on you, possibly injuring yourself or someone else in the process.

Mastery will come in time. Don't get frustrated if it seems to be taking too long. Everyone's pace is different.

Good luck!

i punched someone in the stomach when they where in the next room

i was sat at the computer reading

i was very calm until i felt this tension in my arm, like the feeling you get when your really frustrated,

i was still calm though because i was consentrating on the monitor and half consentrating on the feeling in my arm

i then clenched my arm and made a fist moving it forward ever so slightly, like a subliminal punch

at that very instant i heard the wind getting knocked out of the person in the next room.

this wasnt my first experience of magic

Originally posted by Magickesists
first of all in response to everyone. I AM NOT MESSING WITH MAGIC I AM SIMPLY GATHERING INFORMATION. I have not actually started practicing magic to say but i have begun the first simple steps or so i believe.

Don't start, don't go there. Find out why you're seeking this. Find out who is the source of power. Don't let the deceptions fool you that this is something you can control and that it's coming from you.

Originally posted by Magickesists
First i have started meditating on a regular basis. The relaxation of all the muscles in either the yoga position or lying down or just plain sitting in a chair. I have finally been able to get the meditation techniques working as in im not just going to sleep im in an altered consciousness. But now i have to start trying to visualize simple things like eating an applae or going to a nice warm beach and taking a swim that kinda stuff.

This isn't magik. There's a big difference. Actors, martial artists, public speakers, yoga practioners, and stress relief groups do this to calm the mind and body. Christians can do this to calm their thoughts before talking to God (though not necessary I think). There's a lot of good you can do in the world. There's no need to play with knives without handles.

[edit on 29-1-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Magickesists
first of all in response to everyone. I AM NOT MESSING WITH MAGIC I AM SIMPLY GATHERING INFORMATION. I have not actually started practicing magic to say but i have begun the first simple steps or so i believe.

Don't start, don't go there. Find out why you're seeking this. Find out who is the source of power. Don't let the deceptions fool you that this is something you can control and that it's coming from you.

Yes study, learn, decide for yourself! There is no "who behind the "power".

Originally posted by Magickesists
First i have started meditating on a regular basis. The relaxation of all the muscles in either the yoga position or lying down or just plain sitting in a chair. I have finally been able to get the meditation techniques working as in im not just going to sleep im in an altered consciousness. But now i have to start trying to visualize simple things like eating an applae or going to a nice warm beach and taking a swim that kinda stuff.

This isn't magik. There's a big difference. Actors, martial artists, public speakers, yoga practioners, and stress relief groups do this to calm the mind and body. Christians can do this to calm their thoughts before talking to God (though not necessary I think). There's a lot of good you can do in the world. There's no need to play with knives without handles.

Yes it is Magick. In fact it's one if the most basic magical techniques.

Quote: "but don't do it. It's not YOUR magick you're playing with. Consider the source of power." = SATAN!!!

Spooky, Spooky, Spooky, SATANS & Devils! Don't go there Kids - Just say NO - unless the BoogieMan will get you & God will Burn you in HELL FOREVER!

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Bandit says:Read this please.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by TheBandit795]

Within us is something so powerful, it can produce changes in our lives and the lives of those around us. We do these things every day and there is no other word for it other than magic.

Some of the magic spells we cast daily are bound to the old law of; 'What goes around, comes around'. You've heard it a thousand times if you're over 12...and it's true. How you relate to people around you in your every day life is reflected back at you...no-one can deny this. Our actions and intentions are noted and, however others see you they will act the same towards you.

That is the simple stuff, but nevertheless, if you try to do the 'right thing' consciously, with the intent of having the same attitude come back to you, it always works.
And it can be subtle...when we lie to someone, there are signals sent which are noted by the recipient, even if that person is not aware of the lying. These signals are body language and we can't help but show them.
So it is useless to deceive, because the person you're deceiving will know even if he/she doesn't consciously know.

The same is true if we act with good intentions, even if we try to hide the fact we're doing these things.

There are lots of examples of simple magic... have you ever been thinking about someone and then have them call? I'm sure you have...that's magic too.

How about when you're about to make a decision, something serious, like a job change or a move to another place? You mull it over and over, but can't decide what the right thing would be to do. So you sleep on it...and in the morning, the answer is right there! You wonder what all the anguish was about, it's so clear what the answer is. It was your unconscious mind working as you slept, breaking down the pro's and con's and giving you the answer when you awoke. If that's not magic, I'll eat my computer.

I could go on about these things, but the point is you already are a mage.

The thing you have to do is develop these powers...focussing your intent, gathering your will to work the magic you're already gifted with.

Then you can go on to greater heights...using belief.

With belief, you hold the greatest magical power. If you believe in white magic, you will gain strength quickly and reap great rewards immediately.

If you wish to gain power in black magic, the road will be hard and your rewards will be sorrow and fear.

That's another twist to the great magical tenet: 'You reap what you sow'.

The difference between the two is simple...you can either work your magic to receive power from others or you can work your magic to have power over others.

The choice is yours...but, remember this as you begin your studies of the occult arts; everything you learn has a price, even as you pry it from your very soul, because there is nothing outside of yourself to help you gain such power, it is all within you, waiting to be understood, tamed and directed.

Well there is no such thing as White or Black magick, It's just magick. Like electricity Magick can be used for both good and bad.

For example if you wanted to do some “white” magick to get yourself a promotion at work. But what happens is your boss dies in a horrible traffic accident and you take his place. That’s is why it’s recommended to do a divination (Tarot, I-ching, whatever you like) of some sort before you do any magick.

Using magic to take control or have power over someone is called black and has the effect of causing people to despise you as much as you despise them. It's a reciprocal effect.

White and black are just a way of seperating good from bad, supportive from destructive. It doesn't mean anything other than that.

Electricity is not magic, it's just strange because we don't understand how it works, just that it does.
Interesting example to use along with the notion of simple magic, though.

Beyond simple magic is a grand history of practice...from the earliest totemic paintings on cave walls when our ancestors drew pictures of their quarry, hoping to lure them, to the idea among primitives today that the depiction of the quarry is a 'gift' to their spirit, so that the Great Buffalo Spirit' would send the herd to the hunters.

I like to fish...and I draw a nice salmon before I go out, just in case the Spirit of the salmon will hear my plea.

Call that 'Grey Magic' if you like.





[edit on 29-1-2005 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
White and black are just a way of seperating good from bad, supportive from destructive. It doesn't mean anything other than that.

Yea, that’s what I was getting at… Black and white are just words that describe the same thing. Not two different types, currents, forms, etc… of Magick.

It’s a bit of a pet peeve of mine, all those “I only use white magick, I never harm anyone” people. Well your very existence both helps and harms people in everyday life, why should magick be any different?

Hey Cug, Masqua & MagickExists - I see that you guys are pretty new to ATS. We had a pretty good discussion about this topic on ATS already.

Check it out here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes the workings of your Subconscious Mind & your Mind in General - as well as your Intentions & Will has a LOT to do with it! Remember there are many different Kinds & Types/Sorts of Magick! It is an "Art & Science" after all!

OH Saint4God - I hope you didn't consider my last post too Obnoxious - I couldn’t help but be Sarcastic! Listen I understand that you are a Strict Christian & that is OK - but you shouldn't tell others what they Should or Should Not do in their Lives! Not everyone falls for the "Pay no Attention to the Man behind the Curtain" technique of your Ministers!

Consciousness Expansion is EVERYONES RIGHT!

[edit on 29-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

oh yes i read that exsquisite thread i loved it and it was actually the reason i signed up on above top secret. The basic thing i would like to estabilish before going any farther though is im not friggin evil and i have no misconceptions of where the power comes from because i don't fully understand magic. therefore wherever the power comes from i would much rather it be from myself than any god or devil or demon or whatever. I believe the monks in Tibet are quite adept at self discipline and things that could be called magic. There is much we don't understand i am simply allowing others to let there opinions out in this forum.


By the way thanks for that link to that thread i have been trying to find it since i signed up.

No Prob! Uh... well yes - of-course the Power comes from with-in yourself!

Quoting Myself: "Yes the workings of your Subconscious Mind & your Mind in General - as well as your Intentions & Will has a LOT to do with it = Magick"