Need help.. Bad trend here.. getting stuck in self inflicted friend zone cycle...

ATS,


I came here mainly to rant and just blow some steam but maybe someone has some good advice.

Im a 27 year old guy.. I have it all together for the most part...

Heres the problem. I havent really been single in 10 years. I recently got out of a 4 year relationship (7 months ago). Before that I was in other long term relationships spanning 2-3 years each.. one right after another.. sometimes just weeks in between.

Ive never really had to "date" as most of my relationships have just started abruptly from a friend or the girl sort of snatching me up.

Now over the past 7 months Ive tried to date. With mixed results.. the first 2.. they were kind of like exes of the past.. the kind of girls that just want to wrangle you physically from the get go..

Im really not that type of guy..

More recently.. there have been another 2 girls..

1st girl: I knew her for a little bit before, not really attracted. Once her situation become "closer" to mine I learned alot more about her and she became almost euphoric to be around. We started hanging every day.. she told her friend who told me she was crushing on me pretty hard.. we would flirt a little bit.. and we would spend countless hours together for like a month and a half.. staying awake until early hours in the morning listening to music, hot tubbing, watching movies etc.. however that being said.. she never really gave me a "lane" to really make a move. We talked around how we felt.. we were never direct with it.. and I felt I couldnt really "make my intentions known" or "take control" because she never really gave an opening.. ppl kept telling me to just "do something" but thats alot easier said than done when you havent really had to do this.. and without a clear pathway being given.. anyway, over that time towards the end.. there was a crazy falling out between friends and it got super platonic.

2nd girl: This one is still sort of happening. This time I went into it with clear intentions that I thought she was attractive and that I saw her in "that" light, she felt the same way. I also was forward that Im a slow mover.. she said she was too. All good. She started off surprisingly flirtatious sexually over the phone and via text etc.. and our first date she was the same. That being said in person, outside of the first date, she never really gave me a clear lane. We talk every day, we meet our like once a week.. Ive been doing this for a month and a half.. and she keeps letting me in deeper (as far as her personal life) is concerned... shes let me come over (whuch she admits she doesnt let anyone do)... we have.. in my opinion gotten super close on a talking level.. but I still havent gotten the right moment to even kiss her yet.. we even brought it up weeks ago how I wanted to, so bad the first date, and she said I should have. However whenever we are together in person she usually keeps a personal space bubble so I cant really find an "in" so to speak. Now im fearing its getting platonic.. but more personal.


This is becoming a trend, I have no problem finding girls attracted to me, and I have no problem keeping them around, I just cant muster the mojo to make a move because although Ive been in.countless relationships.. ive never really had to.. either that or girls give clear vibrant signals..

Any suggestions?

Is this how women are in their later 20's?

I seriously think theyre all about me but my lack of fortitude may be a turnoff over time lol

Pick on them a little bit right at the very beginning. Engage them in anything that will trigger a little emotion (not religion or politics, unless you already know you share very common values). Do this and just keep yourself around them generally speaking. Sit close and act like you arent close. Be a little coy. When they test you dont be reactionary - shrug / smile.

If theres attraction to be had that will unfriend-zone you. But it rarely works later. Gotta do it up front.

Common values and social status are how women judge potential mates when they are considering things.

My problems are that I have uncommon values and my social status is in groups with women that are not good dating material. And allergies. Jesus how many times have pet allergies screwed me.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Dude...

I have never found dating easy. I am thirty one, and most of my time has been spent either getting straight up psychologically damaged by women I have been involved with, or slap bang in either the friend zone, or the much worse "this guy? He's just furniture by now" zone. The worst thing about being me, in this period of time in which we are living, is people start to date before they fall in love in this era.

I hate that, and it is not the way I would like to be doing business. There is nothing chaste, lovely, or decent about the process now. It's all about grinding on people in clubs, and involving onself in dating sites. Frankly that is all appalling, low minded gutter crap to my mind, and I have no interest in it.

Here's a thing which may ammuse you. I recently realised that I am VERY dangerously close to falling for a friend of mine, who came out of a relationship a month or so ago. I cannot talk to her about it though. I was going to do so this last weekend, at a function we were both invited to. However, as these things tend to go, it was several hours before we were able to sit next to one another, and not so privately as would allow for such a conversation. Now, the people we were surrounded by were all good friends of ours, so although I did not feel comforable having the conversation I needed to have about my own feelings, she, naturally felt OK about discussing her issues, which involved a person not actually attending the party, to whit, her ex boyfriend.

There I am, wishing to have some space with her so that I can talk to her about my feelings, and there she is explaining that she had bumped into the ex, and was still in love with him, just not happy to be with him.

Now, me being the stoic, bulletproof, cast iron badass of a friend that I am, I did what I always do when a friend has a problem. I poured two rum and cokes, handed her one, and we talked about her stuff. I gave a little advice, provided a sound board, and listened. No one could have known that inside me, a grand vortex had opened up, and the less well tacked down elements of my psyche were collapsing into it at an alarming rate. To be honest, I am well used to this sort of thing, because I am the punchline to the cosmic joke, the premise upon which all the funniest of fates practical jokes tend to be based.

It does not make it any easier to deal with when it happens though.

What I would say is this:

If you are after something that means something, do not rush toward it, or pick from an available list of women. If there is a woman in your life, for whom you have a specific and unrelenting passion, one which cannot be easily transferred onto another woman, then perhaps she is worth pouring effort and a significant amount of mental resource into. Perhaps the pursuit of same would be equally rewarding. But do not waste your time, unless time is what you are looking to waste.

You know, that there is probably a post out there from one of these girls talking about you. With her saying that she has given you ever sign, short of written invitation

Take the girl dancing, then you guys are expected to be into each other's personal spaces.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

If it was easy than we'd all have solved the million dollar question and have our soul mate and the best stocks..


Don't be so hard on yourself, any self aware desperate romantic has the same problem.

SOURCES, every poet, author and artist ever.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I give you props for going for it, but do you think that something like a happy hour would be better? Something that can be played off as friends, if things don't work out well. Slowly put your cards on the table instead of your whole hand. To see if she plays any

Okay. I am probably twice your ages. both your ages. There seems to be lot of fear of rejection. Women these days are much more aggressive than, well, a long time ago. We expected men to be the aggressor-then we responded by at least being nice-and sometime later we expected the guy to just kiss us/sometimes with passion-and if it felt good we responded the same. Granted-booze and drugs made it easy.

Men-you gotta move-and I mean take action-show her your sexual interest-or you're in the friend zone.

Quit fearing rejection-you have the hormones-use them. Believe it or not women really like a strong man-that is a real turn on. And if a woman does not respond immediately-keep going-they love the chase and you've got a good chance or getting positive return. Don't wait long to make that move-a big strong kiss etc. Trust me if they are seeing you they want it.

Be a man-not their best friend. They've got their girlfriends for that-and they do want a man. Loose the fear and drink the beer-and buy one for her-she'll like that. You are not their friend-you're their man-big difference.

Also, for God's sake-get her alone-away from the girlfriend pack-women literally hide when around their girlfriends.

a reply to: TrueBrit

First off, excellent post. Well done. I have been there before, and yes, that is excruciating, thats a deep friend zone situation. I feel for you man. The one thing people always pose to me in that situation is.. "whats more important? Your friendship? Or your for that person?" .. as if its always that easy.

Secondly.. and luckily.. maybe.. is that I no longer have that issue of starting in the friendzone. Ive overcome that hurdle, I know how the opening game is played. My problem is starting very much in the zone you want to be in.. and sunconciously and self sabatogingly working my way out of it.

I also agreed on the sleed of things. I like to be friends with a woman before anything else, to be honest I cant physically.. well.. bang.. someone I barely know, Im just.not that type.

However, I do get drunk off a womans personality and character pretty quickly, and I fall hard with the slightest push.

@thinline

Youre probably right. She has straight up clearly touted her attraction for me on mutiple occasions. That being said, in person she almost act completely different and doesnt give me a lane. A week ago.. I forced myself to awkwardly kiss her on the cheek when we hugged goodbye.. somehow someway she still wanted to see me after that XD

Do women not give clear lanes anymore?

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Stop talking so damn much, get her alone, pull her close and kiss her. You're ending up in the friend zone because that's the roll you're playing.

I don't mean you can't be a friend obviously. But you have to be a hunter too. If you want her you have to want her bad enough to go for her.

Throw caution to the wind. Let passion override you instinct to be careful. You already know she wants you too. She knows that you know that too and is probably wondering why you don't go for it.

Women and men too actually, want to be wanted enough for someone to leave their comfort zone and take some initiative. They've given you the green light but you have to step on the gas.

a reply to: Justso

How did that work out for Bill? Cosby and Clinton, queue in most famous guys now. Haha.

Joking aside I get your point, but this world has smog everywhere. There is no clear answer and every situation requires finesse which is hard when you're nervous. The rarity of finding someone special can freak someone out.

Granted I am so callous now I'm impervious to rejection, I certainly understand the dilemma of my counterparts.

a reply to: Justso

Exactly.

Take this persons advice. They know what their saying.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Well said. I know of the intoxication of engaging with a great lady. I view them as equals but acknowledge and feed off of the differences. It's a game I'll never fully understand, but the mystery feeds the intrigue.

That being said, being so aware makes it difficult to find the one. It's like being a car nut in a market where you can't find your car. It's not that the cat doesn't exist. It's just not available in your area.

Motto of life, womp womp.

Just do it.

tell em to come here, bring them in close, then simply say I want a kiss, then move in.

it will work. she digs you, stop being awkward, she wants a man, you're a man, tell her what you want and watch it come true...she even told you flat out you should have...so, do it.

When you gave her a kiss in the check, did she kiss you back

I found that female that are friends, match your kiss location on your check. While girls that want to make out, will actually kiss you closer to the lips then you kissed them

Has the girl touched your elbow in a social setting. It is late and I am tied, but if you don't know the elbow touch, I might do a post on it

originally posted by: Justso
Okay. I am probably twice your ages. both your ages. There seems to be lot of fear of rejection. Women these days are much more aggressive than, well, a long time ago. We expected men to be the aggressor-then we responded by at least being nice-and sometime later we expected the guy to just kiss us/sometimes with passion-and if it felt good we responded the same. Granted-booze and drugs made it easy.

Men-you gotta move-and I mean take action-show her your sexual interest-or you're in the friend zone.

Quit fearing rejection-you have the hormones-use them. Believe it or not women really like a strong man-that is a real turn on. And if a woman does not respond immediately-keep going-they love the chase and you've got a good chance or getting positive return. Don't wait long to make that move-a big strong kiss etc. Trust me if they are seeing you they want it.

Be a man-not their best friend. They've got their girlfriends for that-and they do want a man. Loose the fear and drink the beer-and buy one for her-she'll like that. You are not their friend-you're their man-big difference.

Also, for God's sake-get her alone-away from the girlfriend pack-women literally hide when around their girlfriends.

THIS!

Plus for godsakes, go to the gym or work out at home with weights; it'll up your testosterone levels. If you can't do 50 pushups, you're not trying hard enough. You'll also start throwing off some more pheromones. No female over the age of 16 (really 12 or so) is going to be interested in some guy who stands back and shows no interest beyond a bit of talking. They're probably wondering if you're gay or don't know yourself. It's even worse if you're not in decent shape with some muscle on you. If she wanted soft, she'd pet her cat. Smart is great, funny is wonderful but muscles are a primal turn-on.

a reply to: Lucidparadox


There's only one way to find out, *go for it* Then and only then

will you find out whether or not your staying in the friend zone, or moving

into the 'love' zone!!


There's a saying among women "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find

your Prince" and as 'faint heart never won fair lady' just *go for it*

you may be nicely surprised

don't fall into this pattern of dating friends because your friends will just see you as the Mr Right guy who they should be with but have no physical chemistry

You should watch, When Harry met Sally.

O god the freinds zone..........The bane of evey man

a reply to: Lucidparadox


Watch the Notebook - the scene on the dock, be that dude, and you can have whichever girl you want!